DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum the main difference between this year and last

DA HAS NOT IMPROVED ONE IOTA .... not one .. no clue how u can even say that ... lets see here ...

He STILL is INNACURRATE AS HELL .. the facrt u wanna say his low comp % is cause hes gotten smarter and now throws the ball away is a JOKE at best and shows how little u actually know about football ... well then again maybe u think throwing the ball 3 yards behind Brey on a 5 yard slant with no defender within 4 yards of him is a SMART "throw away" .. *LOL*

he STILL is throwing into DOUBLE and TRIPLE COVERAGE ... guess u see improvement there cause he hasnt thrown into sextuplet coverage YET .....

he STILL locks on to his primary reciever 95% of the time ... and he STILL forces the ball into him no matter how many guys are around him .. ah yes another sure sign of growth ...

hes IMPROVED all right ... I have no clue how u can say a guy that THROWS INTO DOUBLE/TRIPLE COVERAGE and MISSES WIDE OPEN RECIEVERS ALLOVER THE FEILD and still LOCKS ONTO HIS PRIMARY ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY is IMPROVING ....

All i can say is WOW ..... guess thats my fault though .. i should expect this from U ... Ya, this falls squarely on me for thinking for once maybe you'd have a clue ..

I think that the main thing shown in the stats between last year and this year is that he's pretty much the same. A guy with a relatively low completion percentage...which is indicative of what we see at times from him...throws well behind receivers, etc.

As EO stated in his thread, when it's time to panic his throws are much worse.

You also can't say that the improved line play doesn't have a direct correlation to DA's improvement, either. That's the point Vette is trying to make.

No, been awake for awhile, just clarifying.

If u think Da has improved your just as guilty as the rest of them of this ...

CONFUSING IMPROVED QB play with IMPROVED PLAY of all THOSE AROUND HIM ...

If CF was still here he would look better even though he DIDN'T IMPROVE ....

ANYONE would look better behind an OL that gives them time and with the IMPROVEMENT of KW and Brey from last year to this year ... also add Jamal and having a hole here and there into the mix ...

it doesn't mean the QB IMPROVED when the play ALL AROUND THEM IMPROVED ...

are u sure u didn't just wake up???

Why didn't Frye show a little something if it is everybody else??

He should have played pretty good according to your thinking.

That's what I was implying. DA's results are in direct correlation with the improvement of those around him. The OL is performing better, the receivers are on the same page and running their routes correctlly, the receivers are making eye popping catches, etc. That is what has led to the improved results. I guess I should have added the RESULTS in there and not just ASSumed everyone would understand what I meant.

Didn't just wake up, but not feeling real good today....maybe that's it

It still doesn't take away from improvements he has made.

No....he is no great player, but I think it oversimplified to say he hasn't improved and everybody else has.

That is my only point in all of this.

CF in his 20 total minutes of PT against the Stilers D??? Gee, I don't know why he didn't "look" improved ... *LOL* ....

DA has NOT IMPROVED .... thats the BOTTOM LINE ... U can wish it all u want or IGNORE whats really happend all u want ... it doesn't change the fact that the O has improved ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY because of the play of those around him and Chud taking advantage of the weapons we do have ..

after this weeks game you'll more than likely be signing the same tune u were after a couple pre-season games ... DA SUCKS ... *LOL* .. witch ways the wind blowing this week???

B .. ya the word RESULTS was a key ommitance .. i thought u were saying that Da has improved and is part of the reason for the O's success ... cause thats just NOT TRUE ...

DA is a pocket passer, who is playing with a line which is being developed to protect such a QB. Frye didn't fit. Has DA improved, well I still cringe everytime he releases the ball and that goes back to last year, and if that's stilll happening then no, this guy is too erratic, and has been lucky on more then a few passes this year.

U brought up a good point Fletch ....

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Has DA improved, well I still cringe everytime he releases the ball and that goes back to last year,

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that certainly shows IMPROVEMENT as compared to last year .... this year U, I and MILLIONS of Dawgs cringe when he goes back as compared to last year when we all got depressed everytime he faded back to pass ..... *LOL* ...

If thats not a SURE SIGN OF IMPROVEMENT I dont know what is ... Cringing is much better than Depression .... *L* ... and if u dont believe me, just ask Peenie ..

The thing that bugs me about DA isn't so much the throws he's making, even though some of them leave me scratching my head... what bugs me more are some of the throws he's not making... I'm sure every QB doesn't see an open receiver now and then, but I don't remember the announcers actually pointing it out as often as they have with him, which leads me to believe that the announcers are actually looking for it or it's happening more often than it should...

Just a general reply.

I agree that Anderson hasn't been perfect .. but for some to say that he hasn't improved is ridiculous. I mean it really leaves me shaking my head in disbelief, and makes me wonder just what the hell games they're watching.

We have the 6th ranked scoring offense. In the NFL. All of it.

What is the goal of an offense? To score. TDs preferably. We are 6th in the NFL in TDs scored.

We are 4th in TD passes.

Anderson has 18 plays of 20+ yards. 4 of 40+. It's not all him ... but man he has to have *some* contribution. You can have a great OL, a great RB, great WRs ...... but if the QB is a total bum, you still aren't going to score much, or create big plays.

Further, how many "great" QBs are there in the NFL today? Favre? Brady? Manning? Anyone else? Maybe Palmer if he continues to produce at a high level for a few more years. Perhaps Romo ..... but again it's a bit early to apply a "great" tag to him.

Anyone else even close?

I don't know that winning takes a flawless QB. Good thing too, because there aren't many of those around. It does take a QB who can take advantage of what is happening on the field though. Thus far this year, Anderson has done it.

thats fine y-town ... cause reading what guys like U and peenie and DC say makes me shake my head ... it truely AMAZES ME ...

U mention words like flawless and great .. what a JOKE that is .. like thats what I and a few others expect ... thats just another amazing statement ..

do u guys not see ALL THE THROWS INTO DOUBLE AND TRIPLE COVERAGE A GAME??? I mean he throws at least twice a game into double and triple coverage .. are u oblisious to that??

do u guys not see all the WIDE OPEN RECIEVERS he plain flat out MISSES with HORRIBLE HORRIBLE THROWS??

do u not see al the GREAT CATCHES by our recievers and DROPPED PICKS by the D in EVERY SINGLE GAME??

thats what i see int he GAMES I WATCH ... appearantly those plays are edited out in some viewing areas .. *LOL* ..

keep alluding to your stats Y-town .. they'll continue to LIE TO U .... I actually respect U so i will refrain from my saying ...

DC .. I just watched the entire jets/Bills game ... and AMAZINGLY ENOUGH there wasn't one dropped Pick the entire game ... NOT ONE ...

and their was only one throw the entire game into double coverage and that was with 5 secs left in the half when Pennington had to throw a sideline pass to try and set up a FG try ... had to get out of bounds cause they were out of time outs ..

and their was NO PASSES THROWN that were not VERY VERY CATCHABLE ... NOT A SINGLE ONE ... granted thats a rarity .... BUT IT HAPPEND ....

as I watch the rest of the games this week and for the next few .. I'll report back to U on all this stuff ... cause maybe the light will go on for u if someone shows u where it is ...

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Let's stick to what is seen on the field,


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Ok .. fine ...

against Cinci he threw more BAD PASSES than GOOD ONES ....


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Ok,...... which is why we one.

Do you even read what you post?


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1st pass..two full yards behind Edwards on a slant
2nd pass...at least a yard behind Edwards
3rd pass...high across the middle, almost getting Edwards killed in double coverage
4th pass...gets the ball stripped, picks it up and runs right. Throws to JJ who is wide open in the end zone (DB slipped) and misses badly.
5th pass...10 yard pass across the middle to Winslow who is able to get 8 yac. nice play
6th pass...roll out left, hits JJ for a 13 yd. gain. nice play
7th pass...20 yd. completition to Edwards who has to make a diving catch. Edwards was wide open with room to run but a bad throw.
8th pass...Threw it in the dirt to Edwards who was double covered. I'll give him creit for throwing it away even though he never looked anywhere else.
9th pass...throws a ball to Heiden that was low and almost picked off. Heiden had tight double coverage with two more defenders 7 yds. in front where Winslow was running a crossing route. If the backer didn't drop it the safety had a easy play on the ball as well. We kick a field goal the next play.
10th pass..Vickers drops a pass in the flats.
11th pass...Winslow catch for a first down. LB was right in front of Winslow but didn't get his head around to defend the pass.
12th pass..Beautiful throw to JJ in the corner of the end zone.
13th pass. Threw it to Edwards in the flat who was in one on one coverage inside the 10. The throw was nowhere near him. Awful looking play, don't know who was responsible. Edwards was wide open
14th pass...TD to JJ nice play.
15th pass...Quick throw to Edwards on the line. Edwards gains 9 after catch.
16th pass...8 yard throw to Winslow who dives to his right to catch it.
17th pass...Throws the ball into triple coverage, ball is tipped and Edwards catches it on the ground. Horrible play.
18th pass...Beautiful throw to Winslow who catches it and runs into the end zone.
19th pass...Horrible pass that is picked. Never looks off the reciever giving the safety time to make the jump.
20th pass...Bad throw to Lewis on a screen.
21st pass...Sideline throw to Edwards that was reviewed. He never looked off of Edwards.
22nd pass... Throw to an open Winslow who had to reach out and make the grab causing him to slide to the ground.
23rd pass...Beautiful pump fake and throw to Edwards for a TD.
24th pass...Slant to Edwards, good throw.
25th pass..Threw it short of the first down on third and six. We go for it on 4th down and are denied.
26th pass...Seam pas to Heiden. Turned him around but thrown were no one else could catch it.
28th pass...2 yd. bootleg throw to Vickers.
29th pass...TD to Edwards who was wide open. Edwards had to make a great diving catch because of such a bad pass.
30th pass...Low throw to Winslow over the middle. Ball was caught and probably good placement because it saved Winslow from taking a hit.
31st pass...3rd and goal, throws it away. Smart play.
32nd pass...Boot leg to Vickers who was wide open. Throw was on his back hip but should have been caught. Throw should have been better.
33rd pass...#rd and long with time winding down. Throws short to Edwards (never looked anywhere else) who makes a great individual effort to get the first down.



I didn't mention all the times he didn't look off his recievers. Is Diam right? You decide. He threw some bad passes that were caught for nice gains. Every QB will make bad throws He made horrible decisions on some also. Too many for my liking.

I just find it amazing that we're talking about a guy who just made his 6th start. He played in his 8th game.

Hey ... he's been up and down ..... in his 6th start ..... his 3rd in the new offense. Imagine that.

Being that this is his 6th start ..... and that he is driving this offense to heights not seen in over a decade ...... I'm willing to live with the growing pains for now. If Anderson continues to develop .... and Quinn still beats him out ... then great. Personally, I hope that Anderson makes it damn hard for Quinn to beat him out ...... because that'll be the best situation for the Browns.

Now, as far as seeing him miss wide open receivers ... yep, and it drives me crazy. Of course, it seems like he miises one, then hits a guy on the next play. Happened in the Baltimore game when he flat out didn't seem to see a wide open Heiden ... but then zipped a TD to Joe J on the next play. Youth, inexperience, and less than complete familiarity with a new offense might be part of it. Maybe not .... but I'm not prepared to rule it out just yet. Time will tell.

Now ..... as far as QB play in the league ..... there really isn't a ton of high level play. How many guys are playing better than Anderson right now? Most of the guys in the middle of the pack on down have major flaws. Can they win with the right team? Probably .... in the right situation. Can Anderson? Probably .... in the right situation.

Now, I'm done with this little peeing contest. Some will focus on the upside they feel that Anderson has shown. Some will deny that he has any upside ..... and should be cut even if he somehow winds up leading the league in passing, TDs, and takes the Browns to the Super Bowl. lol

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I just find it amazing that we're talking about a guy who just made his 6th start. He played in his 8th game.

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In his third year. The fact is he played the same way in college. It's not like he was a dominant player in college and is just adjusting. He has not changed. He teases you with the ability to make very tough throws and then does something boneheaded. When pressured he has always been very erratic. Lucky for us he hasn't been pressured. I believe (going off of memory) that he has thrown at least three balls evry game that should have been picked. The law of averages will catch up with him.

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Stats are like a Nostradamus (sp?) quatrain.

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*LOL* ... what did u just say .. remember I'm a moron u need to dumb ot down for me ....

what the hell is a quatrain????

stats used properly can be a good tool .. problem is on here 99.999999999999999999999% of the time there not used correctly .... OR EVEN CLOSE .. and as u pointed out are SLANTED as could be ...

Y-town ya .. if he leads us to the SB we'd be ripping him ... HARDY HAR HAR .... your a real comedian ..

he has been INNACURATE FOREVER .. and hes not even INNACURATE ... he misses 10 yard passes by 5 yards .. that just not even comprehensible .... thats worse than Vick ...

HE STINKS ... you'll see .... about the onlything i remotley agree with U on is that TIME WILL TELL ... and as usual TIME will PROVE me RIGHT ...

DC .. just watched the Cards/Stilers game ..

saw 2 picks dropped ... one was when Lienart got hit and the ball just fluttered up in the air and one of the DLman (I believe) dropped it ... the other was a HORRIBLE pass by Ben that a LBer dropped ..

I was Ben throw 3 or 4 HORRIBLE passes in that he missed recievers .... Lienart threw none and Warner threw one ...

Ben threw into double coverage once ... that was it for both teams for the ENTIRE GAME ....

and the Bills started a rookie starting his first game EVER in the NFL ...

I'm gonna watch one more .. maybe someone int his game will get near as lucky as DA has in EVERY ONE ONE OF HIS GAMES ... cause so far he a leader by a LANDSLIDE in every single phase of luck ..

Donks/Dolts ....

Cutler threw 2 passes that were uncatchable .. Manning threw 3 .. but none of them were near as far off target as DA's are ...

NO DROPPED INTS AGAIN ....

there was one throw into double coverage .. Cutler threw the ball 60 yards in the air to Marshall .. his TALL RECIEVER .. it was a jump ball between him and 2 shorter guys .... no one won .. Marshall was the only one to touch ot and he couldn't hold onto it ...

got a few more to watch tommorow .. maybe the LUCK factor will take the swing u think it has ....

...c'mon Diam, I've never called anyone on this or any board a moron (at least it's never made it from my head to the keyboard). Yet some of the smartest football people on this board do...I merely tried to point out that the smartest people shouldn't need to do that - and you are one of the smart ones, so is EO, so is Vers (who no longer posts here but was one of the worst offenders in that area), etc.

Some people have closed minds who take hours breaking down a passing chart using terms like almost getting receivers Killed....fact is the guy wasn't killed.

The problem is they have spent months and months saying how Anderson really sucks when it is clear he doesn't suck.

So now the tactic is when they see people like us who say he has improved, they somehow take those words to mean we think the guy is great and start talking about guys like Brady and Manning.

Oh well.

BQ will play soon enough, so pretty soon we will see QB play void of the stuff they talk about.

If nothing else, Anderson has given the team a chance to look for reasons to play Quinn rather than look for reasons to not play him.

Deep down, I think that bothers some people.

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The problem is they have spent months and months saying how Anderson really sucks when it is clear he doesn't suck

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That may be true, but for the greater portion of that time,, Anderson may not have sucked, but he didn't exactly light it up either.

To be honest, I didn't care who won the job coming out of camp.. I wanted the guy that gave us the best shot in the opinion of those that matter.

I was NOT displeased that Charlie got the nod, but after that first game, I do remember saying,, Why Oh Why didn't I listen to Peen

Anderson doesn't suck, but he's inconsistent. I can't really hold that against him, he's young, lacks experience and for all real purposes, he's a rookie.. what's this game on Sunday,, his 7th career start in the NFL, or is it his 8th. Either way, he doesn't have a lot of experience. So inconsistency is probably expected,,, at least by me it is.

As others have said, there is a difference between improved results and improvement of him as a player. It's really simple. Does he still lock onto receivers? Does he still throw into coverage he shouldn't? Does he still miss open receivers? Does he still have accuracy problems?

I'd also like to know which it is, Peen. Is he the "bum" you stated a few weeks ago or is he a good backup?

Hehe.....you keep going back to that "bum" comment.

It was all in the context used my man...the best I recall it was some debate about who should start(and my recall is usually pretty good).....Chuck or Anderson...in the end I said it doesn't really matter, they were both bums....as in comparing to Quinn...or at least the prospect of Quinn.

So quit being so damn anal....geesh

This stuff I say about Anderson isn't being confused with me wanting him over Quinn is it??

Now to this the team is better, he hasn't improved...you are starting to sound like Bill Clinton here.

You can't tell me the QB doesn't have something to do with the results of the team.

I know you aren't as dumb as a stump, and that is about what it would take to make such a crazy comment.

Well, IIRC, the comment was that both Frye and DA were bums, not comparing them to Quinn. That's why I keep asking, I didn't understand what had changed. Thanks for clarifying what your intent was with the comment.

Again, the questions I asked about DA's performance are there. He still has huge holes in his game that haven't improved.

I'm happy with where we are record-wise and happy with where we're going. We are watching a team unit and grow up. It's great to see.....though some of us have seen it for awhile. I hope DA does become a competent backup. I just don't know if he's there yet. I can't wait for Quinn to be ready, either. I just want what's best for the Browns and what I see in DA scares me even as a backup....but thje formula's working right now.

*LOL* .. actully what he said was DA and Frye both SUCK .... he went from pimping DA to RIPPING HIM and wanting him beheaded over 2 pre-season games .. *LOL* ..

he also said sumptin to the affect of "if 40% of BQ is better than 100% of DA or frye than BQ should start NOW" .....

so this is actually his 3rd SHIFT OF THE WIND change about how good DA is ... like i said b .. witch way is the wind blowing today??? *LOL* ..

and i find it HYSTERICAL .... he says DA SUCKS and thats a quote Peenie ... and now he wants u to quit being so anal about pointing it out .. *LOL* ...

Daman U need to clarify sumptin to me ... witch time was it U wished u listened to Peenie ...

1. when he said DA was good
2. when he said DA SUCKED???

i just want to make sure I'm clear on this one??? *LOL* ..

DC .. just watched the Chefs/Bolts game ... Rivers threw a pass that was dropped by the Chefs ... ONLY dropped Int. in the entire game .... NO THROWS INTO DOUBLE COVERAGE AGAIN ... well actually there was one ... but it was lofted over both defenders heads for a tD .. showed nice touch ... sumptin i know u don't want to bring into the equation .. *L*

so far in 4 games we've had a totol of 3 dropped Pics (although one was when the QB got hit upon release sumptin DA hasnt had happen yet) and only a few throw into double coverage and NO THROWS INTO TRIPLE coverge ...

seems like maybe DA is gettting lucky compared to the rest of the NFL afterall ... I got 3 or 4 more games to watch from last week ... will keep u updated as I'm sure your real interested ... *L* ..

Whether you like to admit it or not...lol.....some aspects of our QB play have improved. DA no doubt has his severe limitations that you mentioned, but he also get's rid of the ball much faster which gives our "improved guys" a chance. It's tit for tat bro. He's helped........and no I'm not the dolts that thinks he's a long term answer, but he has improved the position in that regard.........and thus the team.

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Whether you like to admit it or not...lol.....some aspects of our QB play have improved. DA no doubt has his severe limitations that you mentioned, but he also get's rid of the ball much faster which gives our "improved guys" a chance.

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I agree that he has been much improved over Frye. The thing is Anderson has always had a quick release. He hasn't improved on that.

The NE game will be the hardest test..Bellyache will scheme for him disgusing his zone and coverage shifts..
Da will not be able to just set and throw without seeing where the DB's are or whether his man is covered, as he often throws where the route is without checking to see where the DB or LB is.

Did you hear that? That was Pdawg hitting the nail on the head.

I wasn't talking about DA, but rather the position/play at the position. People want to act like the only difference is those around the QB (and I'll say 95% of that is dead on correct), but they forget that we have 7 sacks this year, and 5 of them where in the 1st quarter when Fry was back there. So you want to tell me that mid way through the 2nd quarter the OL suddenly gelled, and none of that is DA's getting rid of the ball quicker???

Listen DA's a backup at best in this league, and he is wildly innaccurate, and makes poor decisions.........I won't lie and say otherwise, because he's basically a stiff. However, with that said he's also doing some things that's helping htis team win and that's one of them...........giving the playmakers a shot at making a play instead of killing us by holding onto the ball. Now he may kill us throwing the ball....lol......but at elast there's a chance for success on some plays

Dude I fully expect this to be the last time we see DA as the starter (barring injury), becuase I think he'll get exposed in a big way this week. However, I still know that he should get some of the credit for the improved O, and not just everybody but him...lol.

Actually Willie u just PROVED my point ... U said he gets the ball out quickly .. he has ALWAYS DONE THAT .. and he always had the STRONG ARM .. there is NO IMPROVEMENT in his game there .. NONE ...

he has also ALWAYS made HORRIBLE DECISIONS, been INNACCRUATE as hell, thrown into DOUBLE AND TRIPLE AND QUADRUPLE COVERAGE and and LOCKED ONTO RECIEVERS (one of the reason he unloads so quickly ... when u know where your throwing it NO MATTER WHAT .. it makes that easier .. ) .. do u care to tell me witch one of those hes improved on?? well other than he hasn't thrown into SEXTUPLET coverage YET .. *L*

and this is not a DA vs Frye thing for me ... I have not once argued that DA is not doing more for this team than Frye could .. I have no clue on that one ..

DA's improvement or lack thereof is based on DA vs DA not DA vs Frye ...

and i know 100% hes not the long term answer .. my argument with U (witch has nuttin to do with weather DA has improved at all witch is what this thread is about) is weather DA is a capable back up .. and i am sorry as i can be .. I dont want a HORRIBLE DECISION MAKING INNACCURATE QB as my back up .. NOT NOW, NOT EVER ...

DC lambs vs Cowgirls .....

NO DROPPED PICK AGAIN .... Bulger threw 3 or 4 uncatchable passes and there were no throws into double much less triple coverage ...

gonna watch the vikes/Pack next .. let U know when I'm through ..

I was actually going by the thread that said why we are improved this year vs. last which would be DA vs. Fry in essense............that's my bad if you guys where debating DAs improvement, becuase that wasn't what I was personally talking about. As far as DAs improvement.........ehhe.......I can't say he's improved on anything, but what he brings to the table has been better than last year, and that was my point for the purpose of this thread.

Here it is laid out.....IMO

DA Good
1. Strong arm
2. Quick release
3. Tall and has a high release - does not get passes tipped (rarely gets any credit for that)
4. Quick decision making - can't argue that he gets rid of the ball.

DA Bad
1. Streaky accuracy - I've come around on this. His accuracy is bad early, and bad if used intermittantly. His accuracy is good once he gets on a roll.
2. Very limited athleticism
3. Poor / No decision making - can't argue that he gets rid of the ball to the wrong receiver / wrong read too often

Derrick Anderson is what we have right now. I can name at least 5 starters on this team that are worse than him. He's not the weak link although we do have a rookie on the bench that I believe will out perform him almost immediately. Once BQ is ready, BQ is playing.

All of us on this board can see the limitations that DA has. And all of us can see the promise that BQ has.....I believe he's going to be a great "manage the game" QB, and not a great "all-time" type of QB. Joe Montana, Tom Brady ceiling guys who get the ball on target, on time to their players and stay away from mistakes. BQ will never be John Elway, Dan Marino, Brett Favre...guys who carry teams to victories....but he doesn't need to be if we build the team correctly.