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Like I inferred, I'm not a fan of what they're doing. But I'm stepping back from the cliff until FA and the draft play out.

Another way to interpret the Kirko tweet is that he was told Joe probably won't be back and they're counting on him to lead the D.

Or he was just referring to Schobert, knowing that his fellow LB is going to get paid even if Joe is disappointed it doesn't look like it will be here.

Or, it might not even be about football.

That would be like slamming Joe.



That would be like slamming the team that he's a part of.



I don't know. This seems doubtful. Although it is odd that we don't have any additional information.

I have a question. Did Kirko actually say all of that, or part of it and you added to it?

I ask because if he said all of that, it's a pretty damning take on the FO.

He had a tweet yesterday that said "Blessing in disguise".

Sorry, no - that was my take. I should have been more clear.

Kiro tweeted something below:



Most are taking it as he was told hes not being brought back.

An excellent spot! Lines have now become absurd though.

The Catbird Seat is an amazing restaurant as well.

Great dining scene in Nashville.

Okay, thanks.

I was going to say that would have been crazy.

Did a cross country road trip a few years ago and my wife and I ranked our meals. Hattie B's was number one on our list.

They opened a Hattie B's at the Cosmopolitan in Vegas. We were excited when we found out we were getting one in our backyard.

I had my first Hattie B's in Feb when I was in Memphis.

The pimento Mac and Cheese was good. Crazy hot though the chicken. we had mild, hot, and damn hot - everyone stuck to the mild, and that was even crazy hot.

j/c

Before history gets re-written...again:

Dorsey DID NOT get fired;

The Dorsey-led FO also did not re-sign Sho.

Carry on.

Before you get to re-write the narrative.

1. We don't know if Dorsey would have signed sho - he wasn't given the offseason to try to negotiate.

2. We do know, that AB in the past as part of the Sashi regime stated "we have to draft good players and keep them here" (paraphrasing). The first time a player that is good contract comes up, they let him walk, in which he was asking a fair market price mind you according to reports.

TRACK records have meanings.

Peoples concerns are that this FO will not pay players because they feel they can bring in a some scrub to replace them with at a cheaper value.

Question: If players like Joe are so easy to find, why don't we have more of them? Why did it take them so long to build the team the last time around? If LB grow on trees, why do we only have 2?

J/c

There’s no doubt he is a capable player. I actually would probably re-sign him because it also sends a message about hard work, doing it the right way, etc.

I’d offer him 4 years 38 million

I'd offer that, too.

Unfortunately, Joe seems to be turning that down for now. 10M per year is allegedly his minimum. Jordan Hicks money, sure. Mosley money, no.

10M/yr might be my final offer, not my starting offer.

I don't want Joe Schobert to be on a different team.

If Joe Schobert signs with a different team and we sign no one to replace him, that is a disaster. If Joe Schobert signs with a different team and we sign someone much cheaper to replace him and get similar production it will be a good move.

For example, my guess is that we can get Danny Trevathan for much less than it would cost to keep Joe Schobert. Trevathan played linebacker in a defense coordinated by Joe Woods in Denver. PFF's grades on Schobert and Trevathan in 2019. 59.1 for Schobert, 61.9 for Trevathan.

There are other options out there that will be able to produce similarly to Joe Schobert for cheaper. I would rather just keep Schobert because we know what he can do (just not in Woods' defense) but I understand the move.

Yeah, I’m with you there

Dorsey had two years and all the power and all the cap space he needed to re-sign Sho...he didn't. That is a fact...nothing is or has to be re-written.

j/c:

As teams approach FA, should the CBA be considered in regards to players making more money after the agreement?

Perhaps $10-11 million a year for Joe might not be such a steep price?

FYI ...

CHRIS SMITH
DL, UNSIGNED FREE AGENT

Free agent DE Chris Smith will visit the Panthers on Tuesday.

Smith has ties to Panthers run game coordinator Al Holcomb stemming from their time working together in Cleveland last year. The 28-year-old most recently disappointed with just 17 tackles over 25 appearances (including nine in 2019) with the Browns but is an ideal project for Carolina's starved front-seven expected to be without impending free agents Gerald McCoy, Mario Addison, and Dontari Poe this upcoming season. The Panthers are Smith's first known visit of the offseason.

RELATED: Cleveland Browns, Carolina Panthers
SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter
Mar 3, 2020, 9:36 AM ET

That's my thinking on the issue. I'm not sure what his actual value is at this time. I saw one report saying his estimated value when considering the new CBA would be 11.6 million per year.

But of course that was from a talking head so it's not something a place a lot of value on.

Schobert is a top 10 LB. you don't replace that for less money in FA.

that's not how any of it works.

So you wanna replace him with someone not as good, whos 3 years older, and the team (especially the only LB on the team) does not have a rapport with?

You see, this is why numbers are not the end all be all. You cannot quantify running through a wall for your teammate. You cannot quantify how the person next to you makes you play better.

By all accounts, Joe is a leader on the defense, and liked by the team.

For 10 million a year, not only is that good value, it shows young guys they can get rewarded.

This, just sends a clear message unless your picked in the top 10, you wont get paid here.

I would love Joe to stay, but I'm not even sure he's a top 20 linebacker. That said, I believe he's the best we have.

Just checking in on this (SIGN Joe Scho!) but with the new CBA, my expectations and some of my friends are in agreement. They seem pretty consistent upward pressure for the face value of almost all contracts to go up.. So using that as rationalization to avoid signing him or to undermine him by questioning his worth seems to beg the question. Establish his worth and sign him. I just see a real need for him here for say two years.

I also want Simmons (?). Quite a Combine!

He was 7th in tackles, T-15th in assists, 2nd in INT, T-8th in FF,

In July, your beloved PFF had him ranked #10 of off ball linebackers going into 2019

He was ranked 5 after the first 5 games of the season if I remember correctly

**Lets also take into account playing in a 4-2-4 scheme put more pressure on Joe while on the field, and he still produced. With a new coach, new scheme, etc.

I find it funny, when Dorsey didn't give Joe the time of day, some were outraged and pointed to the numbers saying Joe was a must need to be signed. Now that AB is saying "nah", hes not as good as he was a few months ago.

Fickle some fans are.

Joe passes the "eye" test.
Joe puts up the "numbers" some of you love so much
Joe is great in the locker room.
Joe is very smart, and positions others on defense in the right spot.

Bottom line, Joe checks all the boxes, and Joe deserves to be paid.

You aren't the only one who noticed that.

Wish someone would have clued Dorsey in on this.

I mean, I gave the numbers - they all align and say Joe is a productive NFL starting LB. His reported asking price of 10 million is fair for his position and production, but then when the team balks at that....now hes not at as good for some reason.

Its like some have opinions, then when the team does something different, their opinions fall right in line. . . . weird.

I don't disagree with your end conclusion. Schobert is a quality NFL LB and a leader on our D at a position where we are already woefully thin. Re-signing him should be a no-brainer. Only in Browns-land would this be lost on not 1 but 2 FOs.

However, I'd love to see how his productivity rose and fell over the course of the season. Our D was set up to feature the Dline. I think Joe benefited quite a bit from this. I'm not saying he's overrated or a JAG, so everyone can calm their outrage. Joe made plays be he also benefited from some solid and unheralded play in front of him.

While I don't think he's as good as some would say he is, I also don't think we can afford to lose him right now (and that has a bit to do with the LBs behind him).

I would say our defense as a whole underperformed, ESPECIALLY the Dline, that was hit with injury after injury, and suspensions.

So you have Joe, who played behind a beat up and depleted Dline late in the year, who also played with a beat up and depleted D back group earlier in the year, and provided constant and decent numbers all the while.

To me, that says even more than the numbers suggest.

Your looking at the Dline on paper, which yes was improved.

But think about how often we had our Dline on the field, along with who exactly was on the field due to suspensions/injury, along with the who was behind joe in the def backfield behind him.

The ONLY consistent player we had on D not named Myles Garret is Joe.

Here is some additional information on Schobert and Trevathan's PFF grades in 2019:

Joe Schobert:
Overall - 59.1
Run Defense - 47.1
Pass Rush - 62.3
Coverage - 67.6
Total Snaps Played - 1057

Danny Trevathan
Overall - 61.9
Run Defense - 70.9
Pass Rush - 77.3
Coverage - 50.3
Total Snaps Played - 559*
*Played in 9 games after suffering elbow injury in week 10

I did some quick math to spot check my earlier post.

I chose the first Pitt game as the first bucket, as that's where Garrett got shut down for the year (at the very end) and Vernon was already dinged up but still trying to play (right?).

Up until we lost Garrett, Schobert average 9.2 total tackles/game.
-he had 5 games where he had 10 or more tackles
-he recorded 2 ints in Pitt round1, and 2 more the next week vs the Dolphins (should go in the next section, but we're talking about the Dolphins)

After, it's 6.8/game.
-didn't hit 10 total tackles in a game again (smaller number of opportunities, but still... he had 16 in the Baltimore rout)

Cool, did you know taki taki had a better PFF grade then both...…

But hey those numbers look nice on a spreadsheet.

Im sure fighting a groin injury had nothing to do with it.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/browns-joe-schobert-nursing-groin-injury/

He only showed up on the injury report for that one game, as far as I can tell.

Again, I don't want to lose Joe. If the FO has an alternative to Joe, or even an upgrade... then I'm fine. I don't see a realistic situation where we go into 2020 better off at LB w/o Joe... but just because I don't see it doesn't mean it's impossible.

This is literally the first sentence of the post you quoted in your reply:

Takitaki had 105 snaps on defense. That's too small a sample to glean anything significant from.

j/c....


Maybe Joe just wants to try free agency and see what it's like elsewhere? This is his first shot at it and careers end fast in the NFL. If I were him, I'd want to go to FA, too... be flown around and wined/dined... all that jazz. Right now, that's all we actually know, anyway.... that Berry said he has certainly earned that Right. So, is it not plausible?

I mean, he wants $10M. We could probably be content with $10M, but he may not want to even look at any contracts until he has done the circuit. I, currently, see zero reason he may not still be back.

Why did you not post the rest? You can post something, then contradict yourself afterwards.

Posting you want to keep joe, but then listing how its a great idea to let him walk and bring in another guy is not an endorsement.

Literally from the post you quoted: