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Sample size matters.

Correct me if I am mistaken, didn't AB say they were far apart on numbers and value? And its reported it was 10 mill as the number, so they don't want to pay him that.

I keep reading stuff like this but haven't seen anyone say what's being claimed here... I do find that funny.

Absolutely possible.

People like to be flirted with.

Would Joe Schobert be the best linebacker on at least 12 teams?

I’d say he’d be the 2nd best on most of them

he would be the best on at least 22 teams.

I agree with what I think you're saying. If the FO is getting hung up on 10mil/year.... I dunno. I would hope it's the next level stuff that's most of the divide between the two sides (guaranteed $, length, etc). I would hope....

J/c:

Joe's stats are so much better than his tape. I made myself boot up gamepass and focus on him through some condensed games. I think we've got a bunch of box score scouts on here.


For as good as Joe allegedly is in coverage, teams with good TEs wreck us. Delanie Walker- 2 TDs against us. Mark Andrews- 3 TDs in 2 games against us. He's not bad in coverage, but it's not like we can put him on a good RB/TE and he's going to shut them down. He's good at having QBs forgetting he's out there and throwing it right to him. He's underwhelming against the run.

I'm not saying he's bad, but he's not really a difference maker.

Would it be nice to have him back? Sure. This isn't a Schwartz situation, though. Joe's not irreplaceable. We just drafted 2 LBs. If they aren't a huge dropoff, they'll probably give us more bang for the buck. Given more reps and a year under their belts, there might not be a dropoff. We have some interesting LBs on the practice squad/on futures contracts, too.

j/c:

The very same people who are now saying Joe isn't all that good are the same people who were saying things like Dorsey was "dropping the ball," messing-up, not keeping the previous regime's players, and wondering why people weren't talking about firing him.

I love the Regime Wars. It makes for entertaining reading, if nothing else.

Its what Browns fans do, regime changes is what Hee Haw does best LOL. That and lose

I didn't. I thought Joe pretty good.

I may have said if we wanted to extend, do it early.

I think most people were more saying if you're going to be upset at Berry for letting Joe hit FA, you should put it on Dorsey, too. You don't wait until a deal is up to lock up players you want to keep.

I'm pretty sure I've been consistent in saying that Joe's overrated. A good fourth round pick, but not someone to shell out top of the market money for.

Most team Dorsey folks seem to want it both ways. Those analytics guys didn't bring in any real players, why aren't they keeping that guy they brought in? Too many people want to lump each groups moves all together instead of looking at each move on its own.

Both groups had good and bad moves. Dorsey had bad processes and refused to change them.

I wasn't speaking of you.

Btw........for the record. I did not bash Dorsey then and I am not bashing Berry now.

I have maintained that I would prefer we keep Joe because he is a very good player, but I understand the financial aspects of the situation.

It just amazes me how so many people completely flip-flop because they support one regime over another.

I point this out because I think that it is important to be honest when speaking on a public forum that thousands of people can read. Deception is something we should avoid.

Joe Schobert is the current version of D'Qwell Jackson. Racks up 15 tackles 10 yards down field

Because it’s all about being King Of DawgTalkers.

You might have calmed down now, but you were definitely bashing Berry for awhile. You were pretty irate about "bringing the dumb guys back."

I'm all for honesty. It's easy to get carried away with this team as a backdrop as we've both been known to do, though. Football brings out the fanatic in people. This team as much as, if not more than, most.

Back on the FA topic:

Trevathan and Jimmie Ward are names that I've heard mentioned as having Woods ties that I'm liking after having gone to the tape.

Trevathan particularly if he's asking less than Joe and willing to come on a shorter deal.

Joe's just not a good tackler. He misses or gets dragged for 3+ extra yards all too often. His good plays only seem to come when he's unaccounted for.

The juxtaposition of Schobert against the 49ers LBs in our game last year (was looking at Ward) was not the least bit flattering.

Heed your own advice.

You're making things up again. Who on this board is flip-flopping? Since there are "so many" it shouldn't be hard to identify them.

Compare the Niners DL to ours.

Our DL didn't look as good as theirs, but it didn't look as completely outclassed as our LBs.

Warner's a player. Alexander's good, too.

That's what she said.

(hey! someone had to do it-)

completely inaccurate.

people have already broken down how good he is by stats and expected tackle depth etc.

They've broken down how good his stats are anyways.

I'm not sure how many on the boards have actually scouted his tape with a critical eye. Some may have cherry picked his highlights.

j/c:

But, he's not a troll? LOL

J/C

After seeing Kirksey’s ambiguous tweet, it reminded me that he’s even still on the team. I surely hope we aren’t counting on him to be one of our starting LBs.

Was Berry part of the FO that extended Kirksey?

The deal with Schobert is the money deal. He is good enough, has a pro-bowl in there. The thing with the pro bowl is doesn't each team have to have a couple of players to represent? You get where I am going there.

The point is he will get somebody to pay a pretty big salary. I am not even sure we are out of it. We may still keep him. We may have said go find your market value and let us know.

It's just a matter of cap allocation. I have a feeling we will go heavy after a few players. Maybe Woods has looked at the backer group and feels he can work with that. I thought Cox played pretty well late in the season. Maybe we have a few mid round targets at the LB position.

It's a rare day in the NFL you don't lose some player to FA that you would have liked to have kept.

Joe Schobert should already have been extended. The Browns should not be in the position they are now where Joe and his team are chomping at the bit to see who might overpay for his services in FA, which by reports, there are a lot of interested teams (but maybe that is his agent trying to drum up market value?). Dorsey had all last offseason/FA, OTAs, training camp, preseason, and the season to get Schobert locked up. He didn't even offer a contract.

We go into this free agency and draft with (1) very little answers at LB, (2) no starting safeties, (3) 60% of our starting offensive line needs replaced, and (4) a need for more DL depth.

That's a lot of position groups that need attention.

Trying to plant that DePo seed here too, huh?

Final, FINAL say?

Jimmy Haslem. It's his money and organization.

Agreed. This team needs a lot of positions filled. Too many jumped the gun on how good this team was starting last season. I wasn't one of them. I had many people come up to me saying how good my Browns were going to be and I disagreed. As it stands right now if we finish 8-8 this coming season we will be lucky. We need to hit on our draft picks and sign some good players in FA to make a playoff run. I really believe we need 2 good drafts and 2 good FA periods to be solid contenders. JMO

The Browns had the worst roster in the NFL when Dorsey took over. In two years, he added a ton of talent due to draft assets, favorable trades, and using free agency.

The roster, while it was still a work in progress, was far superior to the one assembled by many of the same guys who are back in charge.

It's a tragedy that Dorsey, Highsmith, and Wolf were not given adequate time to complete the job they started.

No, it's not.

For me, the whole situation with Schobert is less about Joe, and more about who we would have in his spot if he were to leave. None of the guys currently on the roster can fill his role, and a draft pick would be an even bigger question mark. Pay the man. And if he's not as good as you think, then it should be easy to bring in someone new that can take over.

Result of front office turnover. Dorsey may not have liked Schobert. These "new" guys might have liked him but following the season may have been too late to sign him.

I would love Joe to return. Not signing him creates a hole that needs filled regardless how good people think he is. He played nearly 100% snaps the past few years when healthy. He's made plays.

While I think he's a very good linebacker, he's not elite. Lamar Jackson is changing the dynamic of the division. We stop him, we win the division.

Can you elucidate what Dorsey's plan was?

It's unfortunate that Sashi and Co weren't given adequate time to carry out the agreed upon plan.

Dorsey was given just as long and showed that he didn't have a coherent plan.

Sashi to plan and Dorsey to scout (assuming they could have coexisted) would have been the best of both worlds (pretty hyperbolic.) Hopefully Berry is a better blend of the two.

Sashi was too much manager, not enough scout. Dorsey was too much scout, not enough manager. Both failed because of what they were lacking despite doing some good things.

I give Sashi more leeway because he wasn't given full control and was given a coach who wasn't on board with him. But, both ultimately failed.

Absolutely.


IMO, it was just another example of being from the previous regime's player pool.



Yes, I agree. Or at least, too late in the game to change the Schobert camp's direction/desire of wanting to test the market.




This is a good point, and perhaps a flaw in Schobert's game as it relates to being able to keep up with Lamar. He is not the fastest and most athletic LB in the world.

U and the co-president of the sashiette’s think KJ overpaid for VG yet u want to sign sho at any cost .... got it ... ....

U two are all about analytics yet 0 + 0 = 0 is way over your heads .... go figure ...

Derpity Derp.

#ReadingisTough