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Really disheartening to see Baltimore continue to stack up guys like Earl Thomas and Calias Cambell year after year.

Bills have acquired @stefondiggs in a trade from the Vikings. @NFLonFOX

Jay Glazer
@JayGlazer

Wow!

Vikings get Buffalo's 1st, 5th, and 6th this year, and their 2021 4th, in exchange for Diggs and their 7th.

That just makes the Hopkins deal look even worse.

that way Josh Allen can overthrow him by 5 yards. lol

What were they doing? I literally have know understanding of how they got the deal they did other than utter incompetence. Did they not call other teams? Did they value David Johnson they much? So much bad.

Made me think of this.

I will never see Josh Allen's name and not think about the end of that playoff game against the Texans. I've never seen an NFL QB so in over their head.

That lateral baffled me.

Odd thing, if it wasn’t for a bull crap blindside penalty, the Bills could have kicked a FG to win it in OT.

Lol he’s going in.

And cousins is about to be trash next season. They just gave him an extension and I think he takes a step back.

Diggs to Buffalo seems like a risk to me. He’s a deep threat for sure, but Allen’s inconsistency makes me think they’re better off using a run game, TE’s, big possession WRs, etc

but Allen has the arm to put the ball out there for Diggs to run under it

Hyperbole.

Good point. In this regard I think it's a good move by the Bills. I also think they'd be smart to sign a quarterback, as we did, who can come in and win games if necessary.

Allen was a far superior qb than Baker last year. Brown's fan shouldn't be trashing Allen. He led a team w/a lot, lot less talent to the playoffs. Baker led his team to the toilet.

Josh Allen

2019 CMP% 58.8 YDS 3,089 TD 20 INT 9 Rating 85.3

2018 CMP% 52.8 YDS 2,074 TD 10 INT 12 Rating 67.9

Career CMP% 56.3 YDS 5,163 TD 30 INT 21 Rating 78.2

Baker Mayfiled

2019 CMP% 59.4 YDS 3,827 TD 22 INT 21 Rating 78.8

2018 CMP% 63.8 YDS 3,725 TD 27 INT 14 Rating 93.7

Career CMP% 61.5 YDS 7,552 TD 49 INT 35 Rating 85.9

Overall in their young careers Baker is the superior QB ...

Those 2019 INTs, though....

Baker also beat Allen head to head last year. The Browns also played the 8th toughest schedule in the NFL vs The Bills that played the 31 toughest schedule in the NFL.

http://powerrankingsguru.com/nfl/strength-of-schedule.php

throw in Allen's rushing stats.

Baker better in 2018, Allen better in 2019.

I was talking about last year. Baker had a ton of more weapons to work with and he played worse than Allen.

Baker was 31st in QB rate. 31st in completion percentage. Second worst in Interception percentage. And more commercials than wins. LOL

You can verify all but the last information here: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing.htm

That's downright misleading to leave out the Freddie-Effect.

j/c:

Of course it's Freddie's fault he threw 21 int's.

Freddie sucked but come on man. Freddie wasn't throwing those picks.

Tony Grossi is that you?? Seriously I haven't come to this forum in months because of the whining and bickering that I always had to scan through. I check back in and the usual culprit is bashing our QB, STILL. Do you deny that we had a head coach that wasn't qualified to even be a coordinator? Do you deny the scheme he ran affected the entire offense, but mostly Baker? Was the scheme a match for our pourous OT's? Be real. You know football, quit making statements without context to fit your agenda of argument. Baker was not the problem. Yes, he had a down year, but A LOT goes into his success. You will have some backpedaling to do now that we have a real coach, with a real scheme, that is able to design a gameplan beyond the 15 scripted plays. I will be here to remind you for sure.

It's sad how many int's that HC threw. Freddie was bad, but that doesn't explain the accuracy issue. There's plenty of blame to go around. Each deserves their fair share of it rather than try to pin it all on one guy.

While I do not like reading Baker getting bashed. I think a blanket statement like putting all of his struggles on Freddie Kitchens is wrong also. I think there was a number of factors involved.

Kitchens undisciplined team
top 10 toughest schedule in the NFL
A few INT.. were bad luck examples Antonio Callaway drop pick against SF should have been a TD.
But I believe Baker needs to clean up his own footwork, throwing high balls that sail, and forcing too manu passes into double/triple coverage.

Not to mention doing just a liiiiiitle homework on what the Bills did on their O Line last off-season. Rather than decimate it and/or "go with the garbage they already had", they loaded up on it. To the point that Teller - the best RG we had last year - was expendable and could be traded away for a couple mid-rd picks.

Also, it's not just the Freddie-effect (2019 version) it's that McDermott is as good as Freddie was awful. He knows how to use what he's got...and he knows what he needs.

Baker smoked every rookie QB his rookie season when Freddie wasn't being a DA, Zeitler was winning him some space and he was throwing the ball all over the place to guys like Perriman (gone for 2019), Callaway (essentially gone for 2019), Fells (gone for 2019) on the way to a record-breaking season.

Put Baker on that 2019 Bills team and he wouldn't miss "all those weapons" just like he didn't miss/have them in 2018...outside of Landry, of course. (Not to mention the FACT that the OBJ and Landry weapons for 2019 were not 100% and likely missed as many or more practices than they made).

"Information and perspective is oftentimes necessary to combat the attempted re-writing of history."
Quoted by WSU Willie - St Patrick's Day 2020

I wasn't trying to mislead anyone. We have all discussed that Freddie was a problem.

But, Baker had a terrible year. That's a fact and not misleading at all.

I will say that I am surprised you said that because you don't typically resort to that crap.

I'm a Baker fan - I don't think he played well last year and much of that was on him and much of it was on what was Freddie and the OL that was inconsistent at best despite some trying to claim the OL was not part of the issue... That said - I really don't think last year's Baker on the Bills team has a lot more success. He was under-prepared and inaccurate. I expect a return to rookie form this year for Baker.

Allen was better than Baker last year. He has the best pocket presence of any of the 2018 QBs by a large margin. His teammates love him. He's just a bit erratic at times.

I agree with you about Baker...no doubt he didn't do what he needed to do to be prepared for 2019.

He DID beat J Allen head-to-head and IMO the sheer difference between Freddie and McDermott would have been enough to push Baker to better heights than I think Allen is even capable-of...even by a less-than-appropriately prepared Baker.

There's every chance - and as far as 'natural' accuracy goes (through college and rookie season) - Baker is way ahead of Josh Allen. Maybe between a better line and HC he would have out performed Josh. But it's not something I'd spend much time worrying about .... I do know that I wouldn't trade Baker for Josh Allen straight up in a month of Sundays.

Btw oober..........are posters "misleading" others by not talking about the Freddie-factor when they say that Hubbard was bad last year? Or, any other player on the roster?

Almost everyone agrees that Freddie did a bad job last year. But, some players had good years despite Freddie. We don't have to qualify the Freddie-factor on each and every opinion we make. And I certainly don't feel the need to have to do so when I provide a link to direct stats.

One more thing that some are overlooking when speaking of Freddie being the reason for Baker's struggles.

Last off-season, I posted Baker's QB rankings after his rookie season. They weren't all that good. Most of the stats were middle of the road. There was the usual name-calling and insults, but YTown brought up a very valid point.

He pointed out that Baker's numbers under Freddie were excellent and the overall numbers were dragged down by the stats compiled under Haley's guidance.

Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmmmm...."

At this time, I wouldn't make that trade either. However, it does seem that they are on opposing trajectories through their first two seasons...

To me, they’ve had opposite coaching experiences. McDermott is one of the best coaches in the NFL in my opinion

Can you point out all the offensive coaching experience McDermott has? How many qbs has he been given credit for developing?

I’m not necessarily talking about QB development as much as I’m talking about accountability, discipline, game planning ... the Bills were one of the best coached teams IMO. We were perhaps the worst (and that goes for the past few years, not just Hue or FK individually)

By the same token, we've also discussed that Baker was bad last year (re: you saying we've discussed Freddie being bad).

To be clear, I don't think you're trying to mislead anyone. I feel you and I have a fair but honest (if blunt) rapport on here.

I'm still trying to get my head around how anyone can go from 2018-season Freddie to 2019 Freddie. We have mostly rumor/innuendo and that couple weeks of ship-is-sinking crossfire as far as info to paint a picture of what happened in terms of our coaching staff, but it still boggles my mind how this past season couldn't even get out of preseason before starting to fall apart after such a promising end to 2018.

It's because of the sheer ridiculousness of the meltdown and my not being able to understand all of the why's that I approach any sort of player judgement from the 2019 season with a whole lot of skepticism.

You presented the simple stats of Baker and Allen from last season. Was Allen's coach calling plays that weren't practiced during the week? Did Allen's coach take everything his offense did well the previous season and flush it down the toilet, opting for stuff that the offense wasn't good at or wasn't familiar?

I was answering another poster when I linked the stats. My post was brief and factual. Again, there was no attempt to mislead anyone. Of course, after your post......others jumped in and do what they do.

I will say that if I was writing an evaluation of Baker's season, I would most certainly include coaching. However, I don't think I deserve to be called out for not mentioning it every time I utter Baker's name.

Oh wait.......I just mentioned his name.

Public Service Announcement: Baker was probably adversely affected by poor coaching last year.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.