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J/C
These threads often feel like you are tip-toeing through a minefield. The question that is still largely unanswered is who are the options at RG?
Can we all agree that this position is currently unsettled? So, in no particular order who will it be:
1. Forbes
2. Teller
3. Hubbard
4. veteran free agent
5. rookie draft selection
6. UDFA
My preference would be a veteran free agent who has known experience in the zone blocking scheme. Mike Remmers would have fit those criteria but I think he signed with KC.
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Anyway ... to bring it back to a RG discussion, I wonder if we might be interested in the RG from Auburn (who's name escapes me at the moment) in the 2nd round, because I'm not sure the answer is on our roster right now. I'm not inclined to invest a 2nd round pick in a guard. Once you get your tackles and center, the guards job becomes a little easier.
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He did sign with the Chiefs.
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J/c
I kinda forget, but how good (well, bad) was Teller last year? Is he strictly a backup type G?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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Looks like every thread is going to be about Baker and how "certain folks" still think he's a viable option at QB1 tonight.
BTW, anybody know his QBR from last year? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Maybe you haven't been paying attention - that's been the agenda for a while. Baker 52.4 QBR https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
Last edited by mgh888; 03/25/20 08:44 AM.
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J/c
I kinda forget, but how good (well, bad) was Teller last year? Is he strictly a backup type G? I didn't think he was that bad. He was better than Kush. He's also young, and has potential for growth. RG is not a concern for me that it seems to be for other folks
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Looks like every thread is going to be about Baker and how "certain folks" still think he's a viable option at QB1 tonight.
BTW, anybody know his QBR from last year? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Maybe you haven't been paying attention - that's been the agenda for a while. Baker 52.4 QBR https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
I guess it all depends on Forbes QBR...RIGHT?
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Looks like every thread is going to be about Baker and how "certain folks" still think he's a viable option at QB1 tonight.
BTW, anybody know his QBR from last year? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Maybe you haven't been paying attention - that's been the agenda for a while. Baker 52.4 QBR https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
I guess it all depends on Forbes QBR...RIGHT? Mac, can you do me a favor and place your ire where it is deserved? Thanks
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Kind of odd don't you think? You post a fact and call it an agenda. Funny how that works. Now on to the topic at hand..... I believe people have to think big picture here. The OL works as a unit. A mediocre RG looks worse next to a terrible RT. That same mediocre RG looks better next to a very good RT. The signing of Conklin helps the right side of that unit as a whole. At some point the assets have to be distributed to other units of the team in need of upgrade. I'm not indicating that I'm happy with the RG position, but as has been mentioned, Rome wasn't built in a day. We have other glaring needs in other units of this team to address. I'm more of the mind set that either Teller will play there or Hubbard will be moved to RG. The skill set needed to play RG is not as stringent as it is to play the RT position. An example of how this plays out is that many college RT's and LT's project and play G in the NFL. Their skill set isn't on the level to play the OT position in the NFL yet have the skill set to play the RG position well. I can't say that Hubbard will be the answer at RG. But what I can say is that the fact he couldn't cut it at RT has no meaning in terms of how he will play RG. The range of field you have to cover at RT is far harder to do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c:
The performance of the OL is always a huge part of the conversation in threads that where we are talking about Baker. Folks trot out how horrible the OL is relentlessly. Some say that Baker has no chance. Or, that our OL is the worst in the league.
It makes sense that when judging the OL that Baker is factored into the mix. A qb who holds the ball too long and bails clean pockets will obviously make his OL look worse than it is.
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Kind of odd don't you think? You post a fact and call it an agenda. Funny how that works. Now on to the topic at hand..... I believe people have to think big picture here. The OL works as a unit. A mediocre RG looks worse next to a terrible RT. That same mediocre RG looks better next to a very good RT. The signing of Conklin helps the right side of that unit as a whole. At some point the assets have to be distributed to other units of the team in need of upgrade. I'm not indicating that I'm happy with the RG position, but as has been mentioned, Rome wasn't built in a day. We have other glaring needs in other units of this team to address. I'm more of the mind set that either Teller will play there or Hubbard will be moved to RG. The skill set needed to play RG is not as stringent as it is to play the RT position. An example of how this plays out is that many college RT's and LT's project and play G in the NFL. Their skill set isn't on the level to play the OT position in the NFL yet have the skill set to play the RG position well. I can't say that Hubbard will be the answer at RG. But what I can say is that the fact he couldn't cut it at RT has no meaning in terms of how he will play RG. The range of field you have to cover at RT is far harder to do. Pit normally you are much better than this. Don't take something I post and make a snide comment completely out of context. I posted a stat because someone asked for it. I said that there is an agenda - because for days if not weeks the same unfounded and untrue comments have laced a high number of the same posters posts even when the thread topic is not QB related.... And that is the very definition of having an agenda. Heck we had the same poster even getting digs at Baker when talking about Cam Newton yesterday. OP this thread - the one about Forbes and the RG position - there is ONE person who took this off topic and talked about the QB. I had a post that stated that the QBR rating and QB discussion was a stretch to bring to this thread and it got removed. SO - the "As for the topic at hand" - place the blame for the distraction where it is deserved.
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Do you remember the other day when you and I were discussing the RG position in the Draft forum?
I asked if Teller was the guy that the Browns were so high on. I'm wondering if that guy was actually Drew Forbes? He might be a viable option at RG.
I hope the Browns settle on who their OL starters early on in the process. I started off my coaching career as an OL coach. It was the only open spot on the staff. I learned a lot about OL play and I can tell you w/the utmost certainty that continuity on the OL is imperative.
This is especially true in zone blocking schemes. The guys must move in unison. I have always compared it to synchronized swimming teams or dance/chorus teams. All movements must be coordinated. Thus, it is very important for a starting line to play in cohesion. That takes a lot of time w/a ton of reps. I think last year's coaching staff spent too much time making changes. Hopefully, the new staff will do a better job.
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While my experience isn't as vast as yours is, I certainly and fully understand how much continuity matters in terms of the OL. Unlike the DL, those guys play 100% of the snaps together. The zone blocking scheme certainly calls for more movement which in turn calls for their timing as a unit to be more critical. I guess I could have saved typing all of that by just saying I agree with you. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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LOL.......it is huge.
Back to Forbes. Do you--or anyone--remember if it was Teller or Forbes that the Browns were very high on in last year's off-season or pre-season?
I'm starting to think it was Forbes, but I could be wrong about that.
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Looks like every thread is going to be about Baker and how "certain folks" still think he's a viable option at QB1 tonight.
BTW, anybody know his QBR from last year? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Maybe you haven't been paying attention - that's been the agenda for a while. Baker 52.4 QBR https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
I guess it all depends on Forbes QBR...RIGHT? Mac, can you do me a favor and place your ire where it is deserved? Thanks  ...like this one.
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I don't wish to derail this thread any more than it already has been. But let's just say if you don't, won't or can't see that there are two sides to this coin posted on this board on a regular basis, then I don't think you're being very objective.
The fact you've decided to give one side of the debate a free pass when they do it and seemingly stalk the other side of it doesn't lend itself to a lot of credibility concerning people having an agenda.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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LOL.......it is huge.
Back to Forbes. Do you--or anyone--remember if it was Teller or Forbes that the Browns were very high on in last year's off-season or pre-season?
I'm starting to think it was Forbes, but I could be wrong about that. By that point in the season I was a little too disgusted with the situation to even listen to them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't wish to derail this thread any more than it already has been. But let's just say if you don't, won't or can't see that there are two sides to this coin posted on this board on a regular basis, then I don't think you're being very objective.
The fact you've decided to give one side of the debate a free pass when they do it and seemingly stalk the other side of it doesn't lend itself to a lot of credibility concerning people having an agenda. Definitely two sides. But I am going to continue to call out BS when I see it continually posted.  When someone else derails the thread and I respond to that post, please address the person that derails it initially as well. You can call me out - but include the other side as you correctly point out. Thanks
Last edited by mgh888; 03/25/20 10:30 AM.
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LOL.......it is huge.
Back to Forbes. Do you--or anyone--remember if it was Teller or Forbes that the Browns were very high on in last year's off-season or pre-season?
I'm starting to think it was Forbes, but I could be wrong about that. It was Drew Forbes, but that was a different group of people, so I don't know how this current FO and coaching staff feels about his future here.
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LOL.......it is huge.
Back to Forbes. Do you--or anyone--remember if it was Teller or Forbes that the Browns were very high on in last year's off-season or pre-season?
I'm starting to think it was Forbes, but I could be wrong about that. It was Forbes. They cut Robinson, and then resigned him once they could put Forbes on IR without waivers.
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j/c,
Drew Forbes is probably the best zone-scheme option on our current roster
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Thanks to you and YTown. I thought I might have been mistaken.
Also, good call by Ham for starting this thread. I'm going to try and research Forbes to see what I can learn about him.
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LOL.......it is huge.
Back to Forbes. Do you--or anyone--remember if it was Teller or Forbes that the Browns were very high on in last year's off-season or pre-season?
I'm starting to think it was Forbes, but I could be wrong about that. My recollection is that it was Forbes then he got hurt.
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j/c: Here is a pre-draft analysis of Forbes. Drew Forbes NFL Draft 2019: Scouting Report for Cleveland Browns' PickMatt MillerApril 27, 2019 STRENGTHS —Experienced at tackle but will likely move to guard in the NFL at 6'5", 305 pounds. —Highly athletic mover on tape who can pull, trap and slide laterally to reach outside pass-rushers. —Good first-step quickness and can get upfield to attack linebackers. —Could make a very good transition to a zone-blocking scheme in the NFL with his upfield and lateral movement. —Athleticism and fire make scouts believe he will make big strides once developed by pro coaches and brought into a top-tier strength program. WEAKNESSES —Small-school competition will limit how the NFL sees him after he wasn't invited to the NFL combine or Senior Bowl. —Shorter arms (32 ⅝") could worry teams, which is another reason he's seen as a guard. —Play power is questionable on tape against small-school defenders and must be improved at the next level. —Was able to dominate by being an athlete and needs to work on punch accuracy to get his hands inside the frames of defenders. —Limited ability to anchor against a bull rush. OVERALL A sneaky good interior offensive line prospect who has the athleticism and drive to become much better than his draft position. Forbes needs to gain strength and work on technique against power players, but his movement skills and quickness are worthy of a top-200 pick. GRADE: 5.65 (ROUND 5 - BACKUP CALIBER) PRO COMPARISON: Justin Pugh https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824...and-browns-pick I like the comments about him being a good fit in a ZBS, his athleticism, and that he played LT in college. Hopefully, he is adding a bit of "good" weight.
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J/C
These threads often feel like you are tip-toeing through a minefield. The question that is still largely unanswered is who are the options at RG?
Can we all agree that this position is currently unsettled? So, in no particular order who will it be:
1. Forbes
2. Teller
3. Hubbard
4. veteran free agent
5. rookie draft selection
6. UDFA
My preference would be a veteran free agent who has known experience in the zone blocking scheme. Mike Remmers would have fit those criteria but I think he signed with KC.
I think 1, 2, 3, & 5 will all be in the mix and get a shot. Maybe even 6. I doubt we make a signing for this spot with so much on the roster right now that will be "good enough". Having a weakness at RG is mitigated by having it sandwiched between Tretter & Conklin. The only real question mark for us is LT.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Forbes was 'Prospect X' per Sports Illustrated essentially picking a guy who they thought might be a sleeper, late round pick. I don't recall them doing that before 2019. It'll be interesting to see if they do that again this year.
Teller wasn't here in training camp nor the pre-season. We traded for him right at the 53 man cut down.
I think the Browns like both Teller and Forbes. I think Hubbard sticks until June 1st to allow for spreading out the cap hit. They aren't going to pay Hubbard that much money to "see" if he can play RG. I think he could stick if he restructures tho. JMO
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I've been saying that I think our starting RG for this coming season is already on the roster, and the acquisition of Conklin has only given me more confidence. We still have to find our LT, and our RG will be between Tretter and Conklin.
Unless we're talking about a late-round draftee or a guard is in free-fall in the draft, I really want us to put our energy into landing that LT and bolstering several positions on the D.
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Concerning Forbes...I went back and watched some video of his senior season and some of his 2019 preseason video as a Browns rookie.
First, Forbes senior season at Southeastern Missouri State...he was so much better than the competition and dominated whomever teams put in front of him, it was hard not to recognize that he was a the best offensive lineman on the field and had the potential to be a good Pro prospect.
His size is 6-5 and 305, ideal numbers for a mobile OG, which is what Forbes is. He moves well and is light on his feet, strong, though he will need to do more in the weight room to deal the strength of the defenders he will face in the NFL.
He has promise imo as long as he works to get better. He very well could develop into the Browns answer at OG, if the Browns coaches are willing to allow him enough time to improve.
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Those combine/draft #s tell me that if he isn't already, then he at least should be able to get to a place where his strength is no longer such a liability.
He was #10 in the bench, which means he was better (in that measure*) than a lot of other OL coming out that year.
*Yes, I know bench strength is very different than playing strength. Just trying to use the info that's in front of me.
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I think that leverage is far more important than arm strength on the OL.
I mean you can't be weak by any stretch, but it's your leverage where you draw the bulk of your advantage from.
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Understood, that's why I put the little caveat at the end. That said, I'm also looking at/thinking about his high/broad jump #s. Still not leverage, but at least those poke at the lower-body explosiveness of the athlete.
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j/c,
FA Josh Kline, former Vikings RG would be a very good insurance policy in the event that Drew Forbes is not ready or unable to lock down the RG position.
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the Bench isn't so much a test of pure strength as it is muscular endurance. Yes, you have to be strong enough in the first place, and there is a correlation between raw strength and muscular endurance, but it isn't linear. You can be crazy strong but have low muscular endurance.
Leverage is more a technique issue; it's a tool in the toolbox. You need to have the bend & balance to make the most of of it.... it ends up being like a force multiplier for that strength.
Neither is really more important than the other... you can find cases where guys get by on one or the other, but the best case is when you have both, obviously.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c,
FA Josh Kline, former Vikings RG would be a very good insurance policy in the event that Drew Forbes is not ready or unable to lock down the RG position. I agree .. he’s got experience as a starter (even if he wasn’t good) and knows Stefanski’s stuff
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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j/c,
FA Josh Kline, former Vikings RG would be a very good insurance policy in the event that Drew Forbes is not ready or unable to lock down the RG position. I agree .. he’s got experience as a starter (even if he wasn’t good) and knows Stefanski’s stuff He actually grades out pretty good in pass protection (credited with 2 sacks in 2019), and was only credited with 3 penalties last season. He doesn't get alot of movement in run blocking, but in the zone-scheme, graining leverage is more important.
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Starters:
LT - TBD
Bitonio
Tretter
Teller
Conklin
G/C backup - Forbes
Swing T - Lamm
Others in the mix that I think they "like":
Colby Gossett - G
Willie Wright - C
There is room to add a vet and/or draft pick (beyond the liekly LT)
JMO
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"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Could Drew Forbes be the answer at
RG?
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