DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus COVID-19 pt3

"Sigh"

Do folks realize these "shelter in place" orders are unconstitutional? The word emergency only appears twice in the constitution and only apply during times of "war or rebellion" and dont give me that crap about the commerce clause and health and safety.

Yes, the govt has the power to quarantine a person, a family, even a city, but they do not have the authority to shutdown the whole country and neither do governors of states have the legal authority to shut down a whole state.

I mean under these shelter in place orders they are barring people from.going to church a clear violation of the 1st amendment, not to mention barring groups and peaceful.assembly as granted by the 1st amendment.

Then the forced closure of gun shops denying law abiding citizens their right to buy guns and ammo.which is a 2nd amendment violation.

The govt has literally forced millions into poverty, forcing private business to close, and creating conditions of economic despair....the same kinda conditions Hitler created in Germany before he overthrew the rightful.govt and took over.

Commons sense says we quarantine those who are sick and everyone else goes back to work. This nation will.NOT survive till may or June like this. We continue this path and your going to see the Great Depression of the 20s again. Fools think this cant happen, but it can, and will. The Fed has interest rates close to zero now with 2 trillion coming but that isn't going to fix this if most of the economy is shut down.

We need to come to our senses the Russians had 40,000 nuclear weapons pointed at us and could have ended the world, we didn't shut down all our businesses and hunker down in shelters.

This is insane. I get it some folks are going to die but the cure is worse than the disease we will.all end up in bread lines if this continues too much longer. We need to man up, take the risk, and get back to work while we still have a nation left to salvage.

No we don’t. Shelter in place will decrease the death rate many fold. It’s the right thing to do. You can’t quarantine just the sick because there can be no symptoms for 14 days while you are contagious. How would you know who to quarantine.

I volunteer for You First.

And my daughter is going crazy because I won't let her go to her boyfriends house. "Dad, I've been around him. He's only been with his family. All my friends get to hang out, why am I the only one that can't leave?" blah blah blah.


Well, where has his family been? I saw Friday night they had about 16 people over. He was at a different friends house last night, where have all those people been? His dad is done working? His mom quit babysitting? Who all have THEY been in contact with?

She listed off 4 of her friends that went to a party last night..........I just said "I can't help it they're stupid and their parents don't care." I am not a favorite dad right now.

Doing what's right isn't always the same as doing what's popular. It sounds like you're doing the right thing and being a good father.

Trump touts press briefing "ratings" as U.S. coronavirus case surge

President Trump sent about a half-dozen tweets on Sunday touting the high television ratings that his coronavirus press briefings have received, selectively citing a New York Times article that compared them to "The Bachelor" and "Monday Night Football."

Why it matters: The president has been holding daily press briefings in the weeks since the coronavirus pandemic was declared, but news outlets have struggled with how to cover them live — as Trump has repeatedly been found to spread misinformation and contradict public health officials.

Meanwhile, American deaths due to the coronavirus have topped 2,300 as of Sunday, while cases nationwide have reached over 132,000.

What he's saying: Trump's Twitter thread on Sunday inaccurately quoted the New York Times article, omitting mentions of the media battle over whether to cover his briefings.

The Times' article begins: "President Trump is a ratings hit, and some journalists and public health experts say that could be a dangerous thing. Since reviving the daily White House briefing — a practice abandoned last year by an administration that bristles at outside scrutiny — Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news."

Trump's tweets skip the nuance, instead shortening to: "President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news."

Trump's thread goes on to cite more favorable figures from the Times article, including that Fox News alone on Monday "attracted 6.2 million viewers for the president’s briefing."

He added in a separate tweet:

Of note: Trump has repeatedly attacked the New York Times as "fake news," and his Trump campaign sued the newspaper in February for libel.



https://www.axios.com/trump-tweets-coron...WGPT1mgHZUPm4JM

Rhode Island Governor Orders Police, National Guard To Track Down New Yorkers


Chuck Ross
Investigative Reporter

March 28, 2020


The National Guard in Rhode Island will begin going door-to-door on Saturday to enforce an executive order requiring visitors from New York to go into self-quarantine for 14 days to limit the spread of coronavirus.

Gov. Gina Raimondo, who signed the order Thursday, also authorized police to make traffic stops of vehicles with license plates from the Empire State, according to Bloomberg News.

“Right now we have a pinpointed risk. That risk is called New York City,” said Raimondo, who signed an executive order on the matter on Thursday.

“That’s a law. That’s an order. It comes with penalties. It’s not a suggestion,” she said at a press conference on Friday.

The order will extend through April 25 and apply to anyone who has visited New York in the past two weeks.

New York City is the epicenter of the United States’ coronavirus pandemic. As of Friday, there were more than 44,000 confirmed cases in New York City out of just over 100,000 in the United States. Rhode Island, the smallest state in terms of geographic size, has 203 confirmed cases. (RELATED: Dr. Anthony Fauci: Trump’s Decision To Stop Travel From China Saved Lives)

WATCH:

Raimondo, a Democrat, activated 1,000 members of the state’s National Guard to begin making the door-to-door visits. The National Guard members will post up at T.F. Green airport in Warwick, as well as at Amtrak and bus stops across the state in order to screen for traveler from New York.

The maximum penalty for non-compliance with the order is a $500 fine and 90 days in jail, according to Bloomberg.

Raimondo is the first government official to institute a policy related to travel from coronavirus hotspots in the United States. The White House on Wednesday urged New Yorkers to self-quarantine for 14 days if they leave the state, but has not issued a mandate.

Countries around the world have institute travel bans involving other nations. President Donald Trump banned travel from China in late January, and from Europe on March 11.

The executive director for Rhode Island’s chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union blasted Raimondo’s order as a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

“While the Governor may have the power to suspend some state laws and regulations to address this medical emergency, she cannot suspend the Constitution,” Steven Brown said in a statement.

“Under the Fourth Amendment, having a New York state license plate simply does not, and cannot, constitute ‘probable cause’ to allow police to stop a car and interrogate the driver, no matter how laudable the goal of the stop may be.”

He added: “We urge her not to follow through with such an ill-advised and unconstitutional plan.”



https://dailycaller.com/2020/03/28/natio...oaWeK8RsYmVosb0

‘He’s Going to Do Whatever He Wants’

Jerry Falwell Jr.’s decision to reopen Liberty University’s campus amid the coronavirus pandemic has sparked anger and confusion—even among those usually sympathetic to him.

Lynchburg, Virginia, isn’t a stereotypical college town. It isn’t politically liberal. It doesn’t have the crunchy affect of an Ann Arbor or even a Charlottesville.

But even here, where Liberty University drives a large part of the economy—and where school president and chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. strides across the landscape as a local grandee—anger over Falwell’s decision to bring university students back amid a coronavirus pandemic is boiling over.

“Remember when people wanted to tar and feather folks? That’s about the level it’s at in the Lynchburg community right now,” a former longtime Falwell associate told me over the phone. “You have … 16,000 petri dishes he’s inviting back to Lynchburg, who have gone out all over country for spring break—he’s inviting them back into our city, our community, knowing that at some point they’re gonna have to interact with the public.”

Throughout the Commonwealth of Virginia, efforts to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus have led colleges to upend their plans for the semester by moving classes online, canceling commencement ceremonies and—critically, from a public-health perspective—moving students out of dorms. Virginia Tech is practically begging students to stay away, enticing them with cash rebates. The University of Virginia has shut down its dorm system, save for those few students “who have no other option.”

Liberty University, meanwhile, has invited its students to return to the dorms, whatever their circumstances might be. Falwell has said this decision was in students’ best interests—that students would be better off if they returned to campus before the coronavirus spread—but that suggestion has met with exasperation by public health experts, state and local officials, and many residents of Lynchburg.

As President Donald Trump pumps out messages that fears of the coronavirus are overblown, and Americans try to square that with their local regulations and personal worries, Liberty has become an even more intense version of the national conflict, with students and faculty left trying to weigh their own interests against a defiant leadership with a constantly pivoting message—in this case, a person who is used to having total control of the institution.

For people who’ve traveled in Falwell’s orbit, the decision is classic Jerry.

“He doesn’t think anyone should be able to tell him what to do, and he’s going to do whatever he wants,” a former Liberty University executive told me.



“He’s very defiant,” said another longtime Falwell associate with close ties to the Falwell family. “It’s very much in his character. That’s a family trait. His father was the same way.”

Now, Falwell has maintained that people have this all wrong: Liberty simply allowed students to return to live in the dorms, if they so choose, while finishing up the semester in online courses. “We think Liberty’s practices will become the model for all colleges to follow in the fall, if Coronavirus is still an issue,” Falwell told the school’s news service in a March 23 statement.

In reality, the situation is more complicated. The Liberty practices Falwell touts include moving most classes online, increasing on-campus sanitation, putting “do not sit” signs on certain chairs in common areas, and inviting back to campus any students who wish to return to live in the densely populated dorms. And while, yes, classes are now online, repeated emails from the university to faculty members over the past week and a half insisted that all instructors must conduct their online classes from their campus offices, and that they are still expected to hold office hours and welcome students for face-to-face interaction.



Among Liberty faculty, there is widespread confusion about what exactly is expected of them during the coronavirus pandemic—much of it driven by a lack of clarity in the university’s own communications. In a March 16 email sent by the university, faculty were told that while their classes would be moved online, they must conduct their classes from their on-campus offices. A March 19 email to faculty reiterated that instructors must be on campus during their class times and office hours. Faculty members were further told that if they wished to avoid being on campus at this time, they should submit requests for consideration to their department chairs, who would then run those requests up the chain of command. And a March 25 email reminded faculty that in order to work from home during the pandemic, they must include an explanation for their request.

In light of these emails, some faculty were puzzled by Falwell’s appearance Tuesday on ABC News Live. During his interview, the chancellor insisted that any faculty who “feel they’re at risk … don’t have to come into the office,” and that “only essential staff” were on campus, including “cleaning staff, food-preparers and security.”



Falwell has said he does not know the exact number of the students on campus at the moment, but this week a spokesperson for the school estimated the number to be around 1,900. Add this to hundreds of faculty and support staff, and you’ve got a buzzing, populated campus at a time when the CDC recommends avoiding gatherings of more than 10 people.

In the statement published by the university on Monday, March 23, Liberty said Falwell “has been consulting with medical professionals daily, including Dr. Jeffrey Hyman of Northwell Health, New York’s largest health care provider.”

On Wednesday, when I reached Dr. Hyman’s office for comment, an employee consulted with the doctor before speaking on his behalf and distancing Hyman from Falwell’s decision. “He himself has nothing to do with that,” the employee insisted.

After I emailed Falwell about the discrepancy between Hyman’s account and the university’s claim, Liberty quietly revised the statement on its website to excise the doctor’s name: “Falwell said the university has been consulting with medical professionals daily, including a physician from New York’s largest health care provider.” (The article on the Liberty news service website does not include a notice that the story has changed.)

Asked why the school would remove Hyman and other medical professionals’ names, a university spokesperson told me that “many health professionals who provided advice to Liberty University recently began receiving calls from the media. They are private people who do not talk to the media and plan to keep it that way.” When I noted that the office of the medical doctor in question did, in fact, speak to me and denied his involvement with Falwell’s decision, I received no answer.

In the same March 23 statement on Liberty’s site, Falwell claimed that he “received a favorable reaction” when he told Lynchburg’s city manager and mayor about his decision to allow students to return to the dorms. “They thanked us for making that decision,” Falwell said.

Contacted on Wednesday, Lynchburg City Manager Bonnie Svrcek disputed Falwell’s claim. “The city unequivocally does not agree with Falwell’s decision,” Svrcek wrote via email.

According to Svreck, as early as March 16, she and Mayor Treney Tweedy asked Falwell to get in line with the majority of other colleges in the nation by closing the Liberty campus amid the Covid-19 pandemic. (In an interview with the Daily Beast, Svrcek went even further, saying Falwell misled her “to believe that the school was … abandoning plans to invite students back into residence halls following spring break.”)

Svrcek characterized Falwell’s relationship with the community as a “professional and typically collaborative.” When asked whether Falwell typically follows city recommendations or ignores them, Svrcek simply said, “Jerry Jr. is an independent thinker.”



On March 24, Mayor Tweedy said in a statement that she had understood residence halls would not be open, except to a handful of international students. “I want the residents in this community to know that at no time did I or the City Manager endorse having the students return to Liberty University’s campus or any of the other college or university campuses in our community,” Tweedy said, noting that while Liberty University is an important part of the Lynchburg community, she nevertheless believes Falwell’s decision to welcome students back to campus is “reckless.”

In the same March 23 statement, Falwell also said that “the communication lines were open” with the office of Virginia Governor Ralph Northam during the decision-making process. “They sent a message back that they were very grateful to us for letting them know what we had decided,” Falwell said—a characterization vigorously disputed by the governor’s office. In a statement, Alena Yarmosky, a spokeswoman for Northam, said the governor is “concerned” that Falwell has kept Liberty’s campus open. “All Virginia colleges and universities have a responsibility to comply with public health directions and protect the safety of their students, faculty and larger communities. Liberty University is no exception," Yarmosky said.



At Liberty, the confusion over what the school’s stance is on the coronavirus pandemic is, at least to an extent, the result of how Falwell himself has publicly spoken about the issue.

“We’re still opening,” Falwell said in an appearance on Todd Starnes’ radio show on March 18, “but we’re not having classes of more than 10 people in a room at a time. But we can still operate that way, because we do a lot online. But most of the students, from what we can tell, are coming back and they’re gonna live in the dorms.”

Compare that to Falwell’s appearance on Starnes’ program on March 25: “It’s just amazing how much ignorance is out there. Liberty did not reopen.” Or, likewise, his appearance that same date on CNN’s New Day, during which he said that “most of the press reports have been false: Liberty did not reopen. Liberty has between 1,000 and 2,000 students on a campus built for 15,500.”



Perhaps this is a debate over what it means for Liberty to be “open.” In his most recent statements, Falwell seems to be defining the term as opening the campus back up to all students and holding classes in classrooms. But the local and state officials and community members who have condemned Falwell’s decision seem to have a different definition: To them, a college campus full of thousands of people is an open campus, regardless of whether or not the classes it offers are being conducted online.

The question that everyone seems to have for Falwell is simple: Why? Why allow thousands of students, faculty and staff to congregate on campus when doing so goes against the guidelines of nearly every health organization in the Western world?

I put the question to Falwell in an email. “We are not a sole exception,” responded Scott Lamb, Liberty University’s spokesman, pointing to a news story reporting that other Lynchburg-area colleges are also currently housing students (five remain at Randolph College, and 19 at the University of Lynchburg).

Twenty minutes later, Falwell replied-all to the email thread.

“Scott, don’t communicate with Brandon,” he wrote.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2...pandemic-152467

It only takes a few people like this to undermine what so many are trying to do in their efforts to stop the spread of the virus.

j/c...

Said it before. I’ll say it again. Let them on campus. Fence it off. Don’t let anyone in or out for anything but medical and food needs.

Idiocy.

Each and every leader that goes against the CDC recommendations should be held personally accountable for every death caused by their idiocy. Falwell belongs in an orange jumpsuit for this.

I want to go back to work, my boss won't allow me. I can't get approval or I would.

What is idiocy?

As of Sunday there have been 122,653 cases of CoronaVirus in the US.

Out of those 122,653 2,112 people have died.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

That works out to a fatality rate of LESS then 2% (1.72% to be exact)

But hey its such a "pandemic" that we got a disease with a 1.72% fatality rate, lets shut EVERYTHING down and just suspend everyones Constitutional rights and be like Communist China and lock everyone up in their homes, put millions and millions of people out of work, crash the stock market, and put us into a massive depression that will put people on the streets and make people poor and unable to feed their families.

ALL OF THIS MIND YOU, over a diesease with a 1.72% fatality rate in the US....

just shows you how the news gives no facts and brainwashes people into believing a bunch of BS and giving up their rights over a disease that 98.2% of all people simply recover from. Sounds like a massive power grab to me.

j/c...

Money grubber.

See my thread about "Takers." Dude is scum.

I agree he is scum, and I have a cousin that attends there.

Know what else is scum? The U. of Toledo, understandably closing the dorms, etc, and going to all 'on line' teaching. And, the latest I heard was they are thinking about giving a $1200 credit to students that were evicted from the dorms. Room and board, per semester, is close about $6200 per semester.

Uh, we moved my daughter out. late Feb.? After 1 month. And they are offering $1200.????

All it takes is a class action lawsuit to get that moved in a different direction. There will be lots of them when this is all said and done.

That's some BS.

I can understand if this does not mean much to you, but see my thread on Givers and Takers. There is honor on being a giver. There is no honor on being a taker.

I know times are tough for you right now. I am sympathetic. Hang in there and do the best you can do. Tough times help build tough people.

Well, like I said - "the latest" offer. And I should've said the first offer. When my wife told me that a week or so ago, I didn't even really look up. I just said "nope."

j/c...

And do you understand that if we don't practice what the CDC recommends, the United States alone could be looking at a death toll of 1 to 2 million. And many of those would die because the healthcare system is already short on supplies. If we don't do what they ask many, many people would die because they could not get care, specifically on a ventilator or there would be no beds for them. CDC is still saying 100-200 thousand are going to die from this. Hope they are wrong.

Watched part of 60 minutes tonight and they were talking to ER doctors in New York and the docs were saying that some people would walk in from an urgent care or walk into ER and say they are not feeling ok and talking to the docs and 12 hours later they are in a medically induced coma on a respirator. Thats the only hope to keep them alive. They also said the normal stay on a ventilator in ICU is 3-4 days and with Covid it is about 2 weeks.

Listening now to New York fire alarm calls and call after call is people not feeling well and distressed breathing.

NYC Emergency Services said Saturday that there were more emergency responder calls on Friday than 9/11

I saw a good meme the other day that will put this into perspective so that even you can understand it. If I gave you a hundred skittles in a bag and told you there were only two that would make you sick and likely kill you, would you eat the skittles?

If two out of every hundred people you know died tomorrow, how many funerals would you have to go to? Is going back to work that important to you? I think saving lives is the most important thing right now, we can fix the rest after the immediate threat is under control. The best minds in America are working the problems, let's not add to their headaches by being dumbasses.

Sounds like he's finally getting it. Good to see facts breaking through.

Those numbers have been rising each and every day, as there is about a two week lag time between recovery or death. The composite number for the world is 4.6 percent, with Italy at 10.8 percent. So the numbers are likely to increase. I hope that better weather and isolation strategies reduce the amount, but we are only 2 week in to that strategy.

The numbers will increase. This just started. The next 3 weeks In nyc are going to be catastrophic. Then it might start to go down. This is about to get real ugly.

Also, that is a ~2% fatality rate (WITH CARE). Most of the US is not out of ventilators, most doctors are not yet totally over-run by cases. Most people are getting cutting edge medical care, and still 2% are dying (~20x as bad as the flu!)

In Italy the case fatality rate is >10%, some of this is probably a failure to diagnose patients, but it also seems clear that the death rate is much higher (maybe >5% ??) without access to ventilators. This virus is really no joke.

And they all say we hate him. You know what I hate. I hate when some greedy ass whispers into trumps ear and says “the cure can’t be worse than the disease”. Pfft the trump era.

Oh boo hoo ... people are dying.

Why is this moron talking about the ratings of his press conferences?
He has mental issues.

The stupid math has already been addressed and corrected as well.

To get the true lethality of the disease, you have divide by the # of RESOLVED cases. You can't include people that are still sick, as you don't know if they will die or not. Because the # of new cases daily is rising, an accurate % won't be available for another couple weeks, at least.

The only stupid math is owned by trump and the trump whispers. And it won’t ever be corrected. People died on trumps watch due to trumps math.

I didn't know Money>People was math, I thought that was a greed based philosophy.

Actually, I think it's hilarious because I'm pretty sure he's trolling the media and that's funny.

People died on Trumps watch because of the coronavirus.

He thinks Mr. President is the one with the mental problems ...

An acquaintance of mine had a heart attack and was rushed to the hospital.

His wife was not allowed to enter the building because they are limiting to sick people only.

He was saved and spent time in the ICU. Eventually moved to a regular room for further recovery. His wife waited anxiously for update calls from the hospital on his condition.

He died alone in that hospital yesterday, of Corona, and his wife of 50 years in inconsolable.

I'd like to believe that, but history with this guy says no,, he's bragging. Something he does a lot.