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I'll kinda phrase it a little differently. The watch/shoe thing could've been a symptom of the real problem, not a problem in itself. I'm half expecting all these things (if someone wants to call them distractions, fine... I'm kinda meh on that) to magically disappear now that there's an adult at the HC spot.

That's based on prediction and not fact. We're back again this year with a HC who has limited experience as an OC. We all certainly hope things will turn out differently this time but there's nothing of substance to base that on.

What about next year isn’t based on a prediction and is based on facts ...

last years facts have nada to do with what will unfold next year ... all except the FACT we whooped them once ... *L* ...

Seriously ... everything about next year is an unknown ... will obj be hurt all next year ... will mg go out of character and coco puffs again and be out for 6 games .... will Lamar stay healthy all year ... will Kev be bettor than Freddie (I’ll take that bet if u wanna make one .. and I’ll give u GREAT ODDS ... *L* ... ) ...

ITS ALL PREDICTION CONCERNING NEXT YEAR ...

Claiming "now that there's an adult at the HC spot" is a very silly thing to say with zero evidence to support it. Even you know that.

So u wanna take the be then ... i didn’t think so ...

I'm not quite sure what "take the be" means, but I'll take it to mean the other option. No, I prefer the "none of the above" option until I see some evidence. Like you, I've been watching this clown show since 1999 and have learned enough to not just jump to conclusions based on zero evidence.

People claimed nobody could be worse than each coach we've had. The latest example of that was the "Nobody can be worse than Hue". Then Freddie came along. Now people are saying that "Nobody can be worse than Freddie". I'm not sure how many times people need to keep wrongly repeating themselves until they decide that a wait and see attitude may be the best approach moving forward.

There is no doubt that 'Nobody was worse than Hue.'

That's not the way the board was reading only a few months ago.

Bet ... u don’t wanna take the bet ...

I NEVER said no one can be worse than hue ... EVER ...

No way Kev’s not bettor than Freddie ... NOT A SHOT ... put your money where your mouth is ... ill even give u great odds ...

Freddie forgot how to run an O and how to call plays .. the bars as low as it gets with Freddie ... not only did he suck but his D coordinator wasn’t any better and apparently Monken was a token hire ... no one still knows exactly what his role was ...

Did u not watch last year? ...

In 18 Freddie made hue look like crap ... in 19 Freddie looked worse than hue ... go figure ... *L*

I didn't think I said anything all that outlandish, but what you said is pretty fair.

I'm not sure if you don't read or your comprehension is lacking. I made it quite plain in saying I'm not making a prediction or guess either way.

What part of that did you have a problem understanding?

I understand completely .... u think i read most of what u post ... ... i used too now it seems all u want to do is go down every single rabbit hole on the path and then just beat that hole to death with inane arguments with others ... not jiggy with that and its all u do anymore ... can’t wait for your response to this ... *LOL* ....

it was real simple but even something as easy as this goes way over your head ... all u had to do was say NO ... case closed ...

Edit - Fake news

I didn't state anything to bet on. "put your money where your mouth is".

See, my mouth isn't the one that was shooting out BS. I only said I'll wait and see. Do you want to bet that I won't do that?

You can comprehend that I would have had to have made a claim one way or the other to "put my money where my mouth is", right? No, you can't see that. Because you just want to run yours.

The San Francisco 49ers have released offensive lineman Mike Person, the team announced. Person started 14 games last season for the reigning NFC champions and started 30 contests in his two-year San Francisco stint

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...n-to-1year-deal

Cody Kessler is looking for a new team as well. Hmmm .....

Clowney drops asking price to $17-18m.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28982069/sources-jadeveon-clowney-drops-asking-price-17m-18m

Hue could only dream about winning as many games in Cleveland as FK did.

My boy had a wee bit more talent than Hue did ... entirely different situations ... hue had no chance to win his first two years where as my boy had all the talent in the world around him ... i still can’t believe how stupid Freddie got In one off season ...

I think he was just overwhelmed with everything and that stifled his creativity and his ability to effectively prepare week to week.

He really didn't strike me as a leader of men at all. His post game speeches were uninspiring.

No doubt. However, Hue won ONE game in TWO years...and that one at the gift of a UDFA's fingertip. That is epic-ally bad...unprecedentedly bad...incomparably bad. That is a record that may never be approached...let alone broken. No one has ever done that bad. He was at the helm...he was in the lead chair...he was a disaster.

The FK 180 was mind-boggling...he absolutely STOPPED doing what he did the prior year. It was/is like a Twilight Zone episode.

The two QB rooms he had consisted of the rats back up and 5 others that never did diddly and i am not even sure if any of them our on rosters at the moment a mere 3 and 4 years later ... oh wait ... Kizer’s on the Raiders roster ... ...

Saying hue was worse than Freddie based off records is why: STATS ARE FOR ... u know the rest ... *L* ...

Rumor has it that Tampa might be interested in Trent Williams to protect Brady's blindside. Smart move if they can pull it off to have a 6-time Pro Bowl LT protecting Brady's blindside for 2-3 years and would be an immediate upgrade to an offensive line that allowed Winston to throw for 5300 yds in 2019. With the weapons Brady now possesses, upgrading the protection for the next 2-3 years on the left side is brilliant move if they can make it.

Too bad the analytic FO doesn't see the value of adding a 6-time Pro Bowler, who's only 31, instead of taking a 50/50 chance draft pick at LT with so many glaring holes on defense that could be better served with that #10 pick rather than on a LT. If Tampa pulls the string on the trade, our FO will be kicking themselves in the butt all season long for not pursuing Williams while they watch that well oiled Tampa offense perform every week.

I understand the need for a LT but the Browns offense (at least) is built to win now with the current members and the FA additions during this off season - providing Mayfield performs. Rolling the dice on an unproven rookie LT when you can get a 6-time Pro Bowler now is a crap shoot at a vital offensive position they shouldn't be taking - but we'll see! Hope I don't have to say "I told you so."

First off...won/loss is a record...not a stat.

Hue won ONE game in two years bro...ONE. You should be able to win more than ONE game in two years by playing with any QB.

We aren't talking about a HC that couldn't get beyond 3-4 wins a year with a terrible QB room...we are talking about winning ONE freaking game in two years...and that due to Jamie Meder's fingernail on a missed FG at the end of the game.

Denver beat us last year with a guy who had never started a game in the NFL...maybe who even never had taken a snap in a real game. It is possible - and permitted - to win games in the NFL with a bad QB room. Not saying have a winning record...not saying make the playoffs...but certainly to win more than ONE game in TWO years.

Lastly, I didn't say Hue was worse than FK based off records (bolded above)...what I am saying is that Hue was worse than any coach in the history of the NFL. Period...you are what your record says you are.

Well then don’t forget Oakland where in one year he had more wins than Freddie did last year with about 50% of the talent Freddie had ....

QB wasn’t Hue’s only talent depleted unit ... pretty much every unit was brutal under him ... not that it mattered with the qb’s we had but look at the wr’s we had his two years ... Kenny Britt had by far the best career of any of them ... *L* ... and who did our crappy QB’s have to hand the ball off too ... and who was blocking for those backs ...

Hue stunk .. no doubt but my boy was even worse and that pains me to say ...

I/m out .. last words all yours ...

I agree. Hue coached a team through a two year tear down. I didn't think he was a good coach by any means, although he was a very good coordinator at one time. But Freddie had no clue. His success came from running Haley's offense.

And his failure was because he ditched Haley's offense. Because, as cfrs15 said to me, you can't be a "genius" if you're running someone else's offense. Freddie's demise was due to sheer hubris on his part, IMO.

You know...I think that is spot on. He was rather smug for a newbie...and his stubbornness was only matched by Hue's incompetence. Being a Browns fan can be very painful.

j/c:

So, Hue is the worst coach ever because his team won only 1 game in two years, but the FO was awesome for assembling a team that won only 1 game in two years.

Pure genius.

Btw........I'm not going to respond to the FO/Hue subject again on this thread. Maybe we can move on and talk about free agency in a Free Agency thread?

I say rolling the dice on an oft injured 31 year old LT who wants $20+ million a year is as big or bigger gamble than some of the rookies. Williams would be better short term, if he's healthy. But that salary AND picks for a guy who averages about 12 games a year is questionable at best.

The Browns are in a tough spot at that position.

Personally, I would not go after Williams. Too expensive and he seems to be a bit of a head-case. On the other hand, it's gotten very hard to evaluate offensive linemen coming out of college in recent years. Spending the 1oth pick on a LT is risky as can be.

No easy answers here.

S Randall to LV Raiders.

Let's clear up a couple of misconceptions about Trent Williams. First of all, he's been a Pro Bowl LT 7 times straight from 2012 to 2018. The 9-year veteran is clearly considered the best LT in the NFL.

Discounting 2019 because of his hold out, Williams missed 13 games between 2015-2018 (4-years) but contrary to some beliefs, Williams is not an oft injured player. In 2015, Williams missed zero games and was named to his 4th straight Pro Bowl. In 2016, Williams missed 4 games mid season for violation of the leagues substance abuse program (not an injury) and was named to his 5th straight Pro Bowl even with missing 4 games. In 2017, Williams injured his knee in week 6 and missed games 7 & 8. He started and played in weeks 9 & 10 but aggravated the injury. He sat out week 11 but played weeks 12 & 13 before going on IR the remaining 3 games of the season after the Skins dropped to 5-8 with no chance for the playoffs. Even with missing 6 games in 2017, Williams was named to his 6th straight Pro Bowl. In 2018, Williams missed 3 games with a severe hand injury in weeks 8,9,& 10 yet still made his 7th consecutive Pro Bowl.

As far as injuries go, Williams has only missed 9 games in 4 years due to injury with 6 of those games happening in a single season but made the Pro Bowl each of those seasons. The oft injured claim on Williams is bogus considering he actually missed a total of 3 games in 3 years due to injury outside of 2017 and the suspension year.

That said, thinking that drafting an unproven rookie in the top 10 is a better move than having a 7-time Pro Bowl tackle who's only 31 with a limited injury history is without merit.

Now, the driving force against Williams would be his contract extension demands and what the Browns are willing to pay and/or give up to get a much needed LT that would have an immediate upgrade to the offense. The alternative is to draft a rookie at a lower price with a 50/50 chance of making it and for sure a question mark on the offense the entire year. Like I said earlier, outside of LT, the Browns offense is a playoff caliber offense today if Mayfield can return to his rookie year performance. LT is the most critical piece missing and the Browns have to decide to either roll the dice on an unproven rookie or go all in at LT with Williams.

As each day ticks away, I believe the asking price for Williams goes down. I also believe that the Redskins cannot go into the draft without knowing if their LT position is addressed or not. Williams knows this and is why his manager is pushing so hard for a trade deal. The bottom line for the Browns are whether they want the best LT in football or if they are content to go with an unproven rookie. Keep in mind that the rookie is going to cost the Browns somewhere between 19-22 million at the number 10 pick. Since most 1st round draft pick contracts are guaranteed, the investment is that price no matter what. Now you get to spread that out over 4 years and you get a 5th year option but there's only a 50/50 chance the draftee is viable and most of the contract is front loaded with signing bonuses so the cost is heavy for year 1. Williams is going to cost I believe between 17-18 million and would be very close to what the Browns will have to lay out the first year for an unproven rookie. Williams is a 7-time Pro Bowler so there's obviously better value and a whole lot less risk. The money issue doesn't really come into effect until years 2, 3, and 4. If, and that's a big if, the rookie pans out then you made a great move and saved about 30-35 million. If it doesn't, then you have not only lost the original 19-22 million - you have to go find another LT on top of that original cost not to mention the effect the poor move makes on the teams W-L record. Now the cost risk is becoming extremely comparable with what it would cost Williams in the first place. The underlying value is with Williams you could address an even larger concern and that's the Browns defense.

If you are to become a winner in the NFL, your team needs to be set up where in every draft you can draft the best player not necessarily the greatest need. I am positive that at #10 if the Browns decide to draft a LT they will not be drafting the best player available. In fact, according to most mock drafts, the Browns would be getting the 4th rated OT and at that selection not necessarily a projected LT in the NFL. The Browns have a storied history of drafting for need rather than the best player. I don't believe passing on Williams due to money (which the Browns have the most cap of) is a smart move considering you are gambling on a rookie that's the 4th rated when you have other concerns and money to burn so to say. Trading for Williams is a smart move at this time for the Browns. Drafting the 4th rated OT at number 10 overall appears to be stupid in my opinion.

I am not opposed to getting Trent Williams if the price is right. I don't think it should be a high pick. I'm really not interested going higher than a third, but that is just me. This is a stacked LT draft and he will be 32 in July on the final year of his deal possibly seeking an extension.

He is not a long-term solution, IMO, so giving up any early round pick where that player selected (in let's say the first or second) has a higher chance at being a long-term answer, regardless of position.

If it was a mid-round pick, we take on the contract for one-year and let him walk while grooming the heir apparent with the #10 selection......I suppose that could be a decent scenario.

Additionally, for any team that could possibly take Trent Williams off Washington's hands, it might mean that is another LT off the board leading up to the tenth selection.

Edit: Probably not....I forgot they are #2. For some reason I thought they were lower.

DAMARIOUS RANDALL
DB, LAS VEGAS RAIDERS

Raiders signed S Damarious Randall, formerly of the Browns, to a one-year contract.

The ex-Packers first-rounder fell out of favor in Cleveland last season, getting benched for a "coach's decision" in Week 13. He did return to start Weeks 14-17. Randall's Vegas signing comes the same day the Raiders backed out of an agreement with CB Eli Apple. Randall should immediately slide in as a starter opposite Johnathan Abram. Capable of playing most any role at the back end of the secondary, Randall has 14 interceptions in five years, though zero of them came last season. It's a nice addition for Vegas.

RELATED: Cleveland Browns
SOURCE: Josina Anderson on Twitter
Apr 3, 2020, 12:43 AM ET

I get your concern but think about this. There are a number of people on these boards that are suggesting signing 38-year old Peters as a stop gap. Williams is only 31 (going on 32) and can seriously be considered a viable option for 3-4 years at LT. Additionally, how long do you think it would take any tackle we draft (as it looks the #4 rated OT) to get up to the value Williams brings even if he regresses some? I don't care how much cheaper Peters is - he is a serious step back in value from Williams and considering him is just plain nuts.

Now in comparison, there's not a single OT in this class that can be considered Joe Thomas worthy. The funny thing about Thomas is there were people right here on this board that raised hell for the Browns taking Thomas instead of Peterson. That said, Thomas turned out to be the best LT in the game when he played. The second best LT in the game - Williams and he still has some serious tread on the tire. Now, there's not a single person on this board I believe that would question for a second paying a 31-year old Joe Thomas 18 million dollars per year in today's money.

That's the same Joe Thomas that was busting DE's at age 33. The same Joe Thomas that missed 9 games in his final year (same number Williams has missed due to injury). No one would have questioned Thomas' cap hit which in 2017 was 14.5 million and would be considerably higher than 18 million in todays money.

I just think it's a little hypercritical to say you'd have no problem paying Thomas (33) the best in the business in 2017 but that in 2020 we need to be frugal and question Williams age at 31 even if he is the best in the business. I'm not saying that LT is not going to be a need at some time but not in 2020 when your team is defensive needy and you have an opportunity to get the best in the game at LT.

Finally, when we talk about Williams and the Redskins so called demand for a second round pick (I think you can get him for a 3rd and a player) - there was little pushback last year when we got Beckham and Vernon for starting guard Zeitler, starting safety Peppers, our 2019 1st round pick #17 overall and our 2019 3rd round pick #95 overall. The cost for Williams is minimal when you consider what we paid last year not to mention the investment of 5-years for Beckham @ 95 million and 2-years on Vernon @ 15.25 million. Summary: for 2 players, 110.25 million a 1st round pick, a 3rd round pick and 2 starting players. At the very most, the cost for Williams would be 4-years @ 18 million or 72 million and a 2nd round pick for the best LT in football (though I think a 3rd round pick would work if we add a player). Seems like a steal to me considering what we laid out last year. What makes Brown fans believe it's ok to pay what we did last year but now we want to be frugal or consider age. Then you have to ask yourself: Did we get what we paid for in the Beckham, Vernon (who missed 6 games) trade?

Look, injuries are part of the game and it happens to every team. That said, getting a 7-time Pro Bowl LT only comes along once in a lifetime and the Browns have a chance too make it twice in a decade. Passing on this opportunity on a team that's ready to win now is foolish in my opinion. Not to mention they would arguably have the best line in football for the best RB and improving QB makes the move valid and with little risk considering the alternatives.

I'm less worried about pro-bowl appearances because that is a popularity contest as much as a true reflection of 'best in class' ... with that said I had been advocating a serious look at Williams but I swear I saw someone posting game stats which are very different than those you just posted. Shame on me for not verifying that when I saw/read the other stats that seemed to indicate he'd missed many many more games ...

Willams for a 3rd or 4th round pick and a big contract incentive laden to playing/starting games is a great solution in my eyes. We have the cap space to take a gamble. It fills a need. It allows us to go after another top quality impact player in positions where we could also use help.