DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jury still out on Frye, Savage in same boat

I maintain my stance to see what he has for the rest of the year..see if he has made any improvements..then go from there..it may even take one more year to really see improvement..
Brees didn't become a viable starter right away.

I think Charlie has the arm to throw the deep out. I think on that example, Charlie stared Kellen down which allowed the defender to break on the ball. This guy/gal is reaching in my opinion. Charlie can correct the staring down receiver habit, that will happen with confidence in the line and the receivers. Just another example of the media trying to tear the team apart so we can rebuild and never see a winner.

Raleigh

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

whining like a baby....

Attack, i have to agree i dont think you can make the final call on Frye at this point. Young quarterbacks are irractic and hectic. The game is simply to fast for them and that is the case with frye. When he clicks it will happen all at once. Right now he just needs that big game to build on.

As far as the writer, you know what he is right. Charlie has flat out sucked. He hasnt played good. He hasnt been average. He has been horrible. numbers dont mean anything either. Defense and special teams has kept the offense in great position all year in fact this is the best Browns special teams unit that I can remember. Few penalites, great returns and out of 8 games we have had like 2 good returns against us. cant beat that.

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> 21 games with 2 offensive coord, 2 OL changes, 87 centers 500 injured WR and not much of a running game. Yea....that's plenty of time to evaluate someone.

I don't hold much stock in this article, personally. I can name a bunch of QB's that didn't start looking like viable starters until their 2nd or 3rd year. Aikman, Brees, Elway, are just a few. I think Frye has a lot of the same abilities as any of these guys, however, I don't think he will ever have quite as strong a throwing arm.

I do think he can still be a winner for us but only if we build the parts around him. O Line is the first thing that needs to be addressed. Then a solid Running Back. Get the WR's to start running routes properly and catch the ball. Now the D Line and CB positions need addressed. Also we will need to replace a few LB's at some point, Davis and McGinnest. Davis is over rated and McGinnest is getting old. Thompson should be good trade bait for something, maybe a draft pick.

I like what I see out of Brohm and would not be disappointed if we did get him but no matter what QB is in our backfield they will not have success with the kind of pressure and lack of running game that our offense gives us. If we were to go QB, I think I'd rather have Brohm over Quinn. Quinn panics too easily.

[color:"orange"] I've avoided commenting much on Frye because I think we just haven't seen enough to know how good or bad he will be - especially with this offensive line.

Over the past couple years a lot of people have tried to compare him to Favre. Well that is just silly. Frye just doesn't have the arm strength to give him that "wow, how did he get that throw in there" quality that Farve has. The guy I would compare Frye to is Jake Delhomme.

They both have that gun-slinger mentality, their teams love them and they have all sorts of intagibles. But they both have a knack to try too hard to make the big play and lead the team to victory that often results in the big turnover that costs them the game.

Now, if we accept this premise as true. The question is: "Is Jake Delhomme (aka Frye) capable of taking this team to the Superbowl and winning it?" Well Jake has taken the Panthers to the Superbowl which of course they lost, but that was in no way Delhomme's fault in that game. Of course Delhomme has some advantages that Frye doesn't. A marquee Wr in Steve Smith, a solid though not spectaculer o-line and a defense that can dominate and win a game on it's own. As Panther fans will atest, Delhomme is too erratic to win consistently.

So my take on Frye at this premature point in his evaluation process is this. Can we win a superbowl with Frye? I think yes. But we will need to put an extra strong squad around him. Can we be perenniel superbowl contenders with him? I don't think so.

Having said that, with the right coaching he may become more consistent than Delhomme. But without improving our o-line he is destined to become as successful as Tim Couch. [/color]

he can run, he can pass...he can catch fish? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Can we be a winning team with Frye playing close to what he is now? umm nooo

Are we seeing a finished product with Charlie? I dont think we are and I sure hope we arent.

Would i look for other options in the offseason? you betcha. I would not be afraid to bring in serious competition for Charlie. May the best man win.

Now with that said i wouldnt spend a high draft pick on a QB either because we need a RB and OL.

Yes... I am curious. The season isn't written off yet, but if we lose 2 of the next three games I think we ought to see some of Anderson and maybe even Cribbs.... <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Who knows.... maybe between Anderson, Dorsey and Cribbs we can find a player that will be successful enough to stop all of this constant bitching about quaterbacks. Since Vinny took over for Kosar the only constant in Cleveland as been the QB complaints. Let's do something and shut the [censored] up....

You all amaze me at times.

Here is a article from the local paper, I dont reall care for Mike Mclain But here ya go..


Frye looks to improve on ?Tunnel Vision?

By MIKE McLAIN Tribune Chronicle

link

BEREA ? It?s a sight that?s been seen enough times in Charlie Frye?s 13 career starts to frustrate fans and worry coaches.

If it continues the rest of this season, it could stir conversation in the front office of the Browns concerning Frye?s value as the starting quarterback down the road.

Too often Frye locks his vision on one receiver. The longer he waits for a receiver to get open, the easier it is for defenders to jump routes to get interceptions and the more frustrated receivers that are open become.

Frye admits that he has to do a better job of going through his checks. If he doesn?t, there?s not much of a chance for the offense to establish a passing attack.

??Trying to look guys off is something I have to work on the next eight games,?? Frye said. ??I tried to do it sometimes, but there were times after watching film (of the game against San Diego) that maybe I locked on a receiver from the snap. If I can get better at that, it?s going to improve our offense.??

Sometimes it?s not bad to lock on a receiver if he?s consistently getting open. It?s obvious that Frye has developed chemistry with tight end Kellen Winslow, who leads all NFL tight ends with 51 receptions for 471 yards and three touchdowns. Winslow caught 11 passes for 78 yards last Sunday in a 32-25 loss to the Chargers.

Frye admits that he feels comfortable going to Winslow.

??Kellen does a great job of getting open,?? Frye said. ??Sometimes my first read is him. Sometimes I expect him to get open. They might double him. I just have to go to the next guy.??

Coach Romeo Crennel has expressed his belief in Frye. While he admits that Frye does tend to stick with one receiver too often, he realizes that Frye has been sacked 29 times and been knocked to the ground countless times after releasing the ball.

??I?m still confident in Charlie and his abilities,?? Crennel said. ??I think that Charlie will be able to play quarterback for us and make us a winning team. He has good leadership ability. He has toughness. His teammates rally around him. He?s adequate with his skills as a quarterback. I think all of those things will make him a winner.??

One of Frye?s goals in the second half of the season is to cut down on turnovers. He?s thrown 12 interceptions, including five that were tipped by either a teammate or a defender. In addition, he?s shown a tendency to put the ball on the ground when scrambling in the pocket.

??I have to take fewer sacks and get the ball out of bounds,?? Frye said. ??The turnover ratio is important when trying to win games. If we can win the turnover battle, we?ll win the game. Those two things are what I?m going to be focusing on.??

Frye hasn?t had to face much fan and media criticism since joining the Browns as a third-round pick in the 2005 draft. As a local kid from Willard, Ohio and a product of the University of Akron?s program, Frye was an immediate fan favorite from the moment he was drafted.

Answering questions about flaws in his game isn?t what he wanted to have to deal with at this stage of his development, but he?s handled it well.

??This is a tough position to play,?? Frye said. ??If I didn?t want that pressure, I would have played golf or played another position in football. When we win, the quarterback probably gets a little too much credit, and when we lose we get the blame. It?s the nature of the position. I like that pressure.??

One constant has been Frye?s indomitable spirit. He loves playing quarterback for the team he followed as a kid, and he wants to continue doing so for a long time.

??If you ever read a book with a good ending, everybody goes through trials and tribulations,?? he said. ??I?m very strong-minded. Not a lot of things are going to get me down. I?m very competitive. I love playing football. I?m going to take the ups and downs. Hopefully, going forward there is going to be less downs.??

Crennel is all for that.


[img][image]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/thepitdog/topdawg.jpg[/img][/image]

It's good that he is at least recongnizng his problems and is attempting to do something about it.

[color:"orange"] I agree Frye needs to improve for us to win. Turning into a Delhomme quality Qb is my prediction as to where Frye will end up.

I am interested in how you would look for other options in the off-season to compete with Frye - without using a high draft pick. A third round or lower pick is unlikely to provide much of an upgrade. The free agent market is unlikely to provide much talent - I see Qb's the quality of Ramsey or Kitna being available but doubt much better. To trade for a quality Qb we would have to give up a high draft pick. What kind of thoughts did you have for bringing in competition?


[/color]

Don't. One thing this team has lacked in leadership from coaching is faith in players. Bringing in a true competition brings in more controversy. Instead of wasting trades on back-ups and wasting picks on more QBs, it's time to be intelligent and build up the team around the QB.

So...we shouldn't get someone else to cover our asses? You want Frye, Anderson and Dorsey as the QB's here next year? I sure don't. I'll take Frye and understand the necessity of building the team around him, but we need someone behind him to cover ourselves if he gets hurt or continues to plateau.

Don't get me wrong, I see your logic, but I want nothing to do with Anderson or Dorsey.

A back-up veteran is just going to be someone people like you will be clamoring for after Frye throws an interception.

Its a bad idea.

So wait, if Frye sucks next year, you don't want the potential of someone better to be there?

You play to win the game. Not play to protect a QB's psyche.

Without a team around them, a back-up QB won't fair any better than a starter no matter who it is. You think Huard is amazing? He's got a heck of a team - an elite RB. Gerrard isn't that amazing, he's got a great team surrounding him, I never liked Aaron Brooks - always thought he was a bad QB - he was awful, got hurt and his back-up is awful - neither has a team around them. Don't waste FA money on a back-up QB, spend it on FA we actually need to improve the team.

Speaking of Brees, he was an NFL wannabe for 2 years before he clicked. Just as an aside to that, the year that Brees really took hold and had a great year,,, was the year that Rivers was drafted. The thing is this, I wonder, if Rivers wouldn't have held out for more money, would Brees even been given the opportunity to succeed?

League history is loaded with stories about cast offs that came back with another team and did well and some even won the big one..

Some examples: Dilfer, cast aside by the Bucs and wins the big one with Baltimore. Same with Steve Young, pushed aside by Tampa, wins one with SF. How about Brad Johnson... Or better yet, Brett Favre.

My guess is that Brees is gonna take the Saints pretty darn far in the playoffs this year and could be the guy to take them all the way someday soon. (I'm kicking myself right now, I didn't want us to sign Brees because of the injury,,,Man was I ever wrong)

My point is, I don't want Charlie winning for someone else.. I want him to have the time to develop right here in Cleveland.

I agree to a point.

By that logic, Kyle Boller should have been amazing. Afterall, he did have a solid running game and defense around him.

There's a point where a good QB can only take you so far, and there's a point where a team around a bad QB can only take you so far. IMO, the 2003 Ravens are a perfect example of that: 10-6 and a first round elimination.

I want to give Frye every chance in the world to succeed, but at the same time we need an insurance policy in case Frye stumbles, otherwise we'll be sitting here depressed next year.

I'll give Frye the benefit of the doubt until he reaches his third season. If there is no progress, then we move on. It took Brees until his 3rd or 4th year to produce. Up until then the fans wanted his head. The organization then decided to move in another direction and drafted Rivers.

Then Brees came on, and he is still a great quarterback.

QB's take time, sometimes a couple years, so to diagnose Charlie this year or even midseason next year, is jumping the gun.

Let him gain some experience, let's get an OL and a RB, then let him have at it. If by the end of next season we are all asking ourselves if he's the guy, then get a QB in the draft and let the two of them compete for the starting job the next season.

But for now, and in the future I'm content with what we have going, because we have potential, and I'm not going to thrw that away simply so Cleveland fans can berate the coaching staff because they won't bench Frye and put in Joe Veteran.

So if Frye stumbles, you're content with last place again next year and living with what we have?

I still think we should cover all our bases. This isn't calling for Frye's head so much as it is being careful, I mean, let's assume he's not ineffective, what if he gets hurt and goes on IR? We'd be stuck with Anderson or Dorsey. That's like when Belichick cut Kosar and went with Philcox. That's basically packing in the season. I want a guy backing up who, at the very least, we can win with. Dorsey or Anderson would lead us NOWHERE.

Last place again??

Um, we are in last.

I heard that playing 'Duck Duck Goose' is a good exercise in helping a young QB to develop his skills to go thru his reads quicker.

First of all, the season isn't over. Secondly, Arizona is currently in the cellar, and finally how can you be so sure that Anderson and Dorsey aren't decent back-up QB's.

Yes, but barring a miracle we'll finish in last, I don't care what Pittsburgh's record is, they're the best 2-6 football team I've ever seen. What does Arizona have to do with anything? Dorsey's been around the league long enough to prove he's ineffective, and Anderson doesn't do much for me either. They were pathetic in the preseason. If Frye's been bad this year, they've been abysmal.

I understand your frustration. But saying that we WILL finish last this season makes you look like a RTard.

Dare I say, the people in charge of the Browns organization have a bit of NFL experience. More so than you or me, and they are content ot let things play out this year.

I think they may get another back-up QB next year, but I don't like the idea.

I don't want to hear Cleveland Jackasses creating a Frye/Joe Blow debate like the Couch/Holcomb, Kosar/Testaverde ones. And I don't want another "let's give the backup a shot" like when Dilfer was benched for Frye. Or when we had that string of no name QB's that all seemed to last only as long as they won.

The Cleveland QB carousel stems from inpatient fans who are quick to switch QB's and even quicker to complain about just about anything(which is why our teams continually suck). I'm going to give a guy a chance to put together his game. That window lasts approximately 2 complete seasons as a starter.

I think this organization will stand its ground long enough and not cave in to irrational fans who think they know more about the game than those running it.

Not the best of compliments I'm sure...however, a team can win superbowls with an adequate QB, it's just that he has to be surrounded with tallent. Frye's got some tallent around him...just not a whole lot in front of him.
A must for any QB is to control the turnovers. Ya can't be forcing the ball into multiple coverage.

It's a shame that it took the announcers of the San Diego game to bring his locking onto receivers to the forefront. You'd like to think that a good QB coach would've spotted that a long time ago and started the fixing proccess.

[color:"white"] He?s adequate with his skills as a quarterback [/color]

Every time I start feeling better about Charlie, Romeo says something like this. Talk about "damning with faint praise'....... <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

j/c

I'm glad that Frye has recognized that he has this problem. I mean, maybe it was good the announcers last week were talking about how the SD defensive backs were excited to play against Frye because he locks in. This has always been my biggest problem with him. If he can improve upon it, I really do think his effectiveness will greatly increase.

No, this is a fish....... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm just being a realist (WARNING: I have at least 6 beers in my system as I type this). I've seen this out of our team since 2003. We can't stop the run or run the ball and our passing game is suspect at best.

I HATE to admit this because I honestly thought this year would be different, but it's the same ol' Browns. Until we're no longer the same ol' Browns, we'll continue to finish in last. Especially since we don't have incompetent organizations in our division anymore since Cinci got half a clue (it's only half cuz they're a team of thugs and are beginning to implode).

Pittsburgh will finish in the basement of the AFC North.

And if Cincy doesn't right the ship, they may be looking at a losing record also.

[color:"orange"] The fact is the jury is still out on Frye. If it wasn't this thread would be a whole lot shorter. So I think we should cover our butts. Heck even if Frye was a sure thing, we should cover our butts - injuries happen, esp with an o-line as porous as ours is and with us playing Balt and Pitt 2x/year.

Now if we do get a veteran backup for Frye it shouldn't matter what the fans want. It is up to the coaching staff to maintain self control and use good judgement and not change to the backup all willy nilly.

I am not ready to give up on Frye but he has a long way to go. And I like the analogy to the Chargers and there situation with Brees. A lot of questions were surrounding Brees and they had to address the question of drafting a round 1 Qb or putting all there eggs in one basket. What we can take away from that situation is that if we were to draft a Qb in round one this year like the Chargers did in acquiring Rivers, then Frye won't be our Qb in 3 years no matter how he improves because the finances of the salary cap just won't allow it.

If it were up to me I wouldn't draft a 1st round Qb this year. I would either draft Joe Thomas or Alan Branch if he comes out this year. Then I would draft an OG in the 2nd or 3rd round. Let's get some quality beef up front and see what the skill players can really do.[/color]

In a previous post you say:

[color:"white"] I understand your frustration. But saying that we WILL finish last this season makes you look like a RTard.
[/color]

Then, you come back with:

[color:"white"] Pittsburgh will finish in the basement of the AFC North. [/color]

As I said before, you all amaze me at times. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" />

I can't ever pass up the chance to say Pittsburgh sucks.

Confidence that the Browns will be the worst team in the league, on the other hand, is inexcusable.

<img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

First step in fixing a problem is recognizing it. Frye recognized his problem (which not everyone can do) which is good, now lets see if he can fix it.

what was he supposed to say? he's got a laser rocker arm? accuracy like kosar? scrambling abilty like vick?

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />