|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
If we take Jones, Jackson or Cleveland at 10 I would be upset. That simply won't happen as none of the three are top 10. Ezra Cleveland is a 2nd rd at best and the other two late-first... I wouldn't be surprised at all if we took Jones with the tenth pick. I'd be shocked. I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read, Jones is the fifth-rated OT...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
If we take Jones, Jackson or Cleveland at 10 I would be upset. That simply won't happen as none of the three are top 10. Ezra Cleveland is a 2nd rd at best and the other two late-first... I wouldn't be surprised at all if we took Jones with the tenth pick. I'd be shocked. I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read, Jones is the fifth-rated OT... Or sixth or seventh rated OT.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Becton also fits in that category of Athleltic...especially if we are going to run a lot he can be a beast at LT and then mostly play action will give him a step on the Defender cause of the hesitation.
I see him possibly struggling a bit in his Pass Pro on definite passing downs or with us trailing by more than 2 scores in the 4th quarter. Hopefully our Defense can keep that to low percentage. But I see a tremendous upside if he is the studious type that wants to be great...not like Robinson.
But again I see him as a beast as do I see Conklin in the Run game. Just need that RG I guess Tetter is the best choice right now. Until we draft one.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
But, he doesn't fit into the technically sound or playing with great leverage aspects.
Big guy, really strong, really athletic... the rest is very, very raw. He has the unteachables, but the teachables are a project.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I think on my list of 4 I have him as #4 on that list of preference.
But he still is worthy of the #10 spot and as noted I think he will struggle in that Pass Pro (technique) the key for me is how willing is he to be great and work hard on that technique or will he be one of those lazy types. I don't know his reputation from college coaches on his work ethics and such. But that would be key. If he works hard he can be one of the best of the bunch just possibly not year one of his career but he will be better by a long shot to Robinson.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I would hope after taking our LT prospect at overall#10 we would take a very good Safety or LB in the 2nd round as one most definitely will be there. I'm hoping McKinney from Alabama.
But its the 3rd round that I think is where we would end up taking our RG prospect.
I that mock draft thingy a guy that keeps coming up available and best value is Robert Hunt.
Hunt was a four-year starter for the Ragin' Cajuns after a strong high school career at Burkeville, Texas. He started all 13 games at left guard as a redshirt freshman, and then split time between left guard (nine starts) and left tackle (two starts) the following season. Hunt moved to right tackle for all 14 games in 2018, and Sun Belt coaches considered his play good enough to vote him second-team all-conference. He only started the first seven games of his senior season due to a groin injury but still was named first-team All-SBC for his play at right tackle.
I see him moving over to RG from Right Tackle I think he's a very good prospect and pretty strong for that RG position. He might not start right away but would be good for an OG/RT replacement due to injury and might end up starting at RG if Teller does not improve to the NFL level as a starter.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
But, he doesn't fit into the technically sound or playing with great leverage aspects.
Big guy, really strong, really athletic... the rest is very, very raw. He has the unteachables, but the teachables are a project. IMO, Becton has the highest ceiling but Thomas the highest floor. Thomas should be a plug-n-play guy...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235 |
So what happens if we get to #10 and Becton,Thomas and Wirfs are all gone.
Do we take Wills at 10? If we do take him, how would we shuffle the line?
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,576
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,576 |
So what happens if we get to #10 and Becton,Thomas and Wirfs are all gone.
Do we take Wills at 10? If we do take him, how would we shuffle the line? If all those guys are gone, then someone that should've gone higher has probably dropped. If it's a non-QB, then it's no worries, IMO. If it's a QB then we might get a sweet deal on a trade down (but I'm not liking trade downs in this draft).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,468
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,468 |
by what I have read, there are not many good LB prospects in this draft, the sooner we take one, the better.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
j/c, Ryan Wilson - CBS Sports.com: 1st round - DT Javon Kinlaw (South Carolina), OT Ezra Cleveland (Boise State); 3rd round - S Jeremy Chinn (Southern Illinois) Of Note: In this scenario, the Browns would trade a second- and third-round pick to move back into the first round and take Cleveland with the No. 32 pick. Looks like the bus to Cleveland is not so out of the question...  See above top 5 I would be pretty happy with that to be honest. Kinlaw is a really stout player at DT. Good against the run and can push the pocket in the QB's face. Pressure up the middle Aaron Donald style is gold, especially if you have a guy like Myles Garrett who gets the QB thinking about stepping up to avoid that rush. Deacon Jones got the sacks, but it was Merlin Olsen and Rosie Greer crushing the middle that made that happen. QB's have ways to deal with edge pressure if the guards and center can form a wall in front of them. Crush the middle and the QB can't do much but crumple to the ground. Kinlaw would be a good pick. Some of you need to watch his tape. He's a really good player.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
So what happens if we get to #10 and Becton,Thomas and Wirfs are all gone.
Do we take Wills at 10? If we do take him, how would we shuffle the line? Considering that Wills is the best OT prospect, yes we take him...........
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I would but it all depends on how we evaluate Wills for all we know he could be our #1 and its a blessing he drops to us. Its not often that there are 4 worthy LT prospects in the draft. 3-4 of them going in the top 10
Since 1999 it came close in 2013 Eric Fisher (1), Luke Joeckel (2), Lane Johnson (4) and then DJ Fluker (11).
In 2002 we had 3 in Mike Williams (4), Bryant McKinnie (7) and Levi Jones (10) but never 4 in the top 10.
I don't think in the 4 there aren't Big time reaches involved. A case can be made Positive and Negative for each of the 4. But usually its an easy evaluation. The big time mistakes have been in guys who just didnt want to work hard I think over the years they became lazy in their work ethic and was allowed to do so by their coaches.
Robinson, McKinnie both come to mind.
But all 4 are solid in their play and those who don't have the technique have some amazing athletic abilities!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
j/c: I think times have changed in regards to offensive linemen being "safe picks" in the draft. I have been trying to communicate that the differences in the college game to the pro game have made evaluating offensive linemen harder than it used to be. I just did a quick search on it and I found this article right away. Offensive Linemen Are No Longer "Safe Picks"By: Joe Marino July 17th, 2019 The Draft Network NFL offenses have never been more prolific than they are today. But despite scoreboards lighting up on Sundays and rule changes that are heavily slanted in favor of offenses, the performance of offensive line play is lacking. There’s no denying that football looks different today than it did even a decade ago. The evolution of spread offenses has taken over the college football landscape, and while the NFL is adopting many of those concepts, the technical and physical side of offensive line play in the NFL is still worlds apart from college. Because of this, evaluating collegiate offensive linemen for the NFL has never been more difficult. For years, offensive linemen were often considered “safe picks” in the NFL Draft, but they are becoming increasingly risky. At ACC Kickoff, I caught up with former NFL Pro Bowl offensive lineman Eric Wood, a former first-round draft pick who recently retired after nine seasons with the Buffalo Bills. “In general, across the nation, offensive line play is down,” Wood said. “College spread offenses can hurt an offensive linemen’s draft prospects because they are doing things so differently from the NFL game. It becomes hard to compare apples to apples and determine how good a guy truly is going to be.” Perhaps this is why the NFL Draft has experienced a 17 percent decrease in first-round offensive linemen when comparing the last five years to the five before that. That decrease climbs to a 37.5 percent dip when considering just offensive tackles over the same span. One of the biggest adjustments for college blockers that come from a spread system is transitioning from run blocking in a two-point to rolling their hips into contact from a three-point stance. While the emphasis in college is often to establish body positioning to create running lanes, the NFL requires offensive linemen to move opponents against their will to create space in the run game. Wood spoke to the challenges of that transition: “It can be really different,” Wood shared. “It’s tough on some guys while others develop the muscle memory more quickly. You have a long time to train between that last college game and the NFL. Even in college, you can be working your hand in the dirt if you're not at a college that necessarily puts their hand in the ground. But like anything - quarterbacks that have to move under center in the NFL that have been exclusively in the shotgun - it’s something you have to learn and it’s tough to identify who will pick things up faster than others.” When discussing offensive linemen projecting to the NFL, it often requires blockers to switch sides of the formation. Many times, the position the blockers are accustomed to from college is already solidified on their new NFL team and the only course to seeing the field is flipping sides. Wood was quick to point out the work and challenges that goes into that transition. “You have to practice it, honestly. It can be very tough to go from the left side to the right side or vice versa. If you are a one side guard or tackle, you’re training only certain muscle patterns going in a certain direction, and going the other way is very difficult.” Some prospects are not only tasked with changing the side of the formation they are comfortable playing on, but completely switching positions. While players can fill certain roles at the college level, their skill set translates differently to the next level and it requires yet another adjustment. Speaking from experience, Wood was quick to point out how difficult it can be making transitions to a new position in the NFL. “I played 49 straight games in college at center,” said Wood. “To go to the Bills and immediately switch to guard, I did have a summer to prepare so I spent time creating a lot of new muscle memory over that summer. I worked my tail off to try and learn the little nuances, but with each position comes a lot of little learned trades that can make someone great at a particular position. I felt like I knew enough of those at center going into my NFL career. Even in that first year and a half before I moved back to center, I always felt a bit more comfortable snapping the football.” For many young offensive linemen in the NFL, the challenges compound. It’s no small task making the leap from college to the NFL, but doing so while learning new techniques, changing positions and/or flipping sides of the formation creates a demanding scenario. While the progression of football has created high-flying offenses, it has never been more taxing for offensive linemen entering the league. https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/offensive-linemen-are-no-longer--safe-picks-
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194 |
j/c
I think Thomas is the best LT candidate in this draft, bar none.
We read articles of people making claims that Wirfs can play either OT position. Most had him penciled in G or RT until his combine numbers. Combine numbers fool a lot of people. The film is the measuring stick.
I don't care which order they come off the board. I don't really care what the talking heads say, if he's sitting there at #10 and we pass on him, it's going to be a huge mistake.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 833
All Pro
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 833 |
After reading about Ezra's injury, I went back to the 2018 games (only 2, but...)
He looked better than Wirfs and maybe even Thomas that year. Had to look up the analytic guys just to compare (it makes me feel better about my opinion sometimes).
2018: Ezra Cleveland: 85.5 (PFF)
Andrew Thomas: 80.6. Though I still think Thomas' tape was a little better (competition level and all that)
Tristan Wirfs: 74.8. Again, to be fare he was better than everyone except Wills the 2nd half of 2019.
Sooo...my final listing:
1) Jedrick Wills (RT) 2) Tristan Wirfs (RT or RG) 3) Andrew Thomas (LT)
That's my "Top 10 possible" guys
4) Josh Jones (LT) 5) Mekhi Becton (mountain of madness)
End of top 25
6) Cesar Ruiz (G/C) 7) Ezra Cleveland
End of 1st round possible guys
8) Austin Jackson (LT)
End of top 40
I had also completely forgot that Muti missed massive amounts of time 2 years in a row, so injuries keep him out of my top 50. It happens.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448 |
Jc
The latest CBS mock has us taking Wirfs at 10 and putting him at RG
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,153
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,153 |
There are LOTs of good tackles available this year. Looks like we'll take one at 10 for sure. If our staff thinks the drop off is too much I want us to trade UP to get the one we want. I like this order https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-position-rankings-offensive-tackles- Thomas and Wills both SEC tested....think that's important. Think Jones from Houston too high. I'm surprised the Boise State guy,Cleveland (got to have him for name only) wasn't mentioned yet Div 3 guy was....your thoughts about tackle only....Please....GO Browns!!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235 |
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 |
Andrew Thomas would be my pick he has played LT at a Big time program ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448 |
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253 |
Andrew Thomas would be my pick he has played LT at a Big time program ... I like Thomas too. Isn't Wills strictly a RT?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,313
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,313 |
1. Thomas 2. Wills 3. Wirf 4. Jones 5. Cleveland 6. Becton
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Andrew Thomas would be my pick he has played LT at a Big time program ... I like Thomas too. Isn't Wills strictly a RT? Yes. He has never played any position other than right tackle. I would assume that takes him off the board as we wouldn't want he or Jack Conklin to make the position change. My rankings (that are almost definitely wrong and that no one should pay attention to): 1. Wirfs 2. Jones 3. Thomas 4. Becton 5. Cleveland
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 |
Andrew Thomas would be my pick he has played LT at a Big time program ... I like Thomas too. Isn't Wills strictly a RT? Yes he is
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,575
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,575 |
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-position-rankings-offensive-tacklesI reposted your initial link. Duh. not sure how recent this is as Cleveland isn't mentioned and I think he is frequently considered a late 1st round pick at the moment. If we don't sign a Vet to fill the slot - I'd love to land Thomas, Wirfs or Jones in that order. Thomas #1 simply because of who he's done it against and for how long ... For comparison here is the Big Board by PFF https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board
Last edited by mgh888; 04/05/20 06:32 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101 |
I like Thomas. I always get nervous about guys who climb the rankings after the last games are played. It seems that way with Becton.
I would rank them:
1. Thomas 2. Becton 3. Wirfs 4. Wills 5. TBD
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448 |
J/c
Doing a little educated guessing .. the following people will be picked before we pick at 10:
- Burrow - Young - Tua - Okudah - Simmons - Herbert - Becton - Jeudy - Wills
IMO it will come down to Wirfs, Thomas, or Brown
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
J/c
Doing a little educated guessing .. the following people will be picked before we pick at 10:
- Burrow - Young - Tua - Okudah - Simmons - Herbert - Becton - Jeudy - Wills
IMO it will come down to Wirfs, Thomas, or Brown I would say Burrow, Young, Tua, Okudah, and Simmons are the only locks to go before we pick. The offensive linemen and receivers can go in any order.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
My rankings (that are almost definitely wrong and that no one should pay attention to):
1. Wirfs 2. Jones 3. Thomas 4. Becton 5. Cleveland
OK...  1. Thomas 2. Wirfs 3. Becton 4. Jones 5. Cleveland (no thannks)
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448 |
J/c
I read something earlier on the OT prospects and Thomas has some attributes that are nearly unteachable (same with Wirfs ... followed by Becton). If we get one of those 3 I’m happy
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,870
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,870 |
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,448 |
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Yes. He has never played any position other than right tackle. I would assume that takes him off the board as we wouldn't want he or Jack Conklin to make the position change.
He played RT because Tua is a lefty. Many college left tackles switch to RT in the pros. Why can't Wills switch to LT? Wills will be a LT in the NFL. He's got great feet and is a very technically sound player. That tells me that he has the coordination to switch sides. Conklin played LT at Michigan (if i remember correctly). He switched to RT and was a probowler in his first season. Wills is a better prospect than Conklin was, he just happened to be protecting the blindside of a lefty QB.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Being a right tackle should not be looked at as a negative. It’s just a different position than left tackle. We already have a right tackle. Switching Wills’ position would just add more of an unknown to his projection. He’s a great prospect, I would just shy away from him because of the position switch.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194 |
Many college left tackles switch to RT in the pros. ????? Really? Usually it's college LT's that aren't projected to LT in the NFL. Even some very good college LT's can't cut it at the position in the NFL.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194 |
Spending the #10 overall pick on a projection of a player switching positions doesn't seem a like a sound way of investing such a valuable resource.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
j/c,
I think that we can trade down, pick up some extra Draft capital and select Jones or Cleveland, who both project to LT.
It all depends on who comes off the board.
Teams picking LTs' ahead of us are most likely taking Wirfs and Thomas ... I would.
I have my reservations on selecting Becton.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194 |
My hope is that other team needs may dictate Thomas falls to us. But from a personal standpoint I think Thomas is the best LT in this draft so I think he's gone early.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season 2020 NFL Draft Your Top 5 OL Prospects For The
Draft
|
|