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I don't agree w/peen's take. I get the Lamar thing. He is a system qb.

However, there are many qbs who have excelled under different coaches and their variations of pro offenses.

Tom Brady has had multiple OCs. So did Peyton. Big Ben, Rivers, Stafford, Eli, etc, etc.

I do want to be clear about something. I am not saying Baker is a system qb. I was just wondering about it. He didn't play well in Haley's offense. He did play well in Freddie's adaption of Haley's offense. He did not play well in Freddie's offense, which was really a BA offense.

I look at some of the pro-type QBs who have played well in Haley's and BA's offenses and one has to wonder if the scheme was the problem or was it the qb?

I could have questioned more but that was the most obvious and clear misstatement.

So your theory is that had we not have gotten rid of Haley those numbers would be so vastly different that Higgins would have been Baker's "go to guy"? Come on man.

I don't think it a misstatement. While Higgy didn't have the most receptions, my impression was when things were breaking down, both Baker and Higgy were on the same page.

That probably came about since Bake was held to 2nd and 3rd team in camp and never got a chance to develop a chemistry with the other guys like he did with Higgy.

I hope we bring Higgins back. He isn't a superstar by any means, but he is pretty reliable and seems to get open.

IMO he has a spot on the roster.....for the right price of course.

So your theory is that had we not have gotten rid of Haley those numbers would be so vastly different that Higgins would have been Baker's "go to guy"? Come on man.

???

That might literally be the opposite of what my thinking was.

I was curious about the more refined numbers that would more accurately represent the situation and what it would in turn show. Looking at the full year does not give an accurate representation of what was being discussed. I have my theory on how the year seemed, and I have a curiosity about the numbers, but only a curiosity about applicable numbers, not incorrectly filtered numbers. The two are separate.

I am wondering if anyone has taken the time to look at Higgins' stats from 2018 that I posted?

"Go-to!"

I am not saying this in a mean way, but you don't know what you are talking about.

I was talking about limiting reads; reading half the field; having one, quick primary read, etc. It's okay you don't understand those things, but I'm not going to back down on this one.

Btw------I am not even saying that Baker is a system qb. It's a possibility due to the differences in how he has played in different systems. He has not fared nearly as well when he is asked to do the things that QBs in Pro systems are asked to do. And he sure as hell didn't do those things in college. That wasn't his fault.

I'm hoping he improves on seeing the field. I am hoping he can go through his progressions at an adequate speed. I am hoping we don't have to cut the field in half. I am hoping he can read coverages better. Hell, I hope he can even start identifying some pre-snap reads, tendencies, and where the blitz is coming from, so he can help w/calling out protection schemes.

I think there are folks on here who try and pretend they know things when they really don't when it comes to the intricate parts of the game. See the "go-to" guy comment as one such example.

And I will end w/this. When I don't know things........I ask questions. I like to learn. I don't try and pretend I know crap that I don't just to win some stupid argument. Some of you might want to actually try and learn instead of concentrating on winning a dumb debate.

Higgs has always been overrated on this board ... and the fact he’s still a FA is 100% proof of that ...

Except that it's not, of course. Most of us know that.


I'm not getting into the "Baker's go to guy" debate, but I'll give you some facts.

Higgins was out for 3 games. We lost all 3.
Landry was on the field almost twice as much as Higgins for the season.
Higgins was seeing much more playing time before he was hurt (first 3 games of the season) and was out for 3 games.
Baker completed 68 passes to Landry and 33 to Higgins.


Mind you with that last figure, Higgins was out for 3 games and when he played, he saw probably a little less than half the snaps Landry saw.


Couldn't tell you who the "go-to" guy is... however we all saw Baker and Higgins developed chemistry in training camp. I think many here commented on it. If Higgins was on the field as much as Landry, who knows what the numbers would say.

For the record, not bashing Landry at all, just showing he played twice as much as Higgins for those using receptions as the deciding factor.

If anything, I think it just shows Baker's ability to distribute the ball. He's not going to lock on one guy and feed him the ball. He's going to find the open guy and get him the ball. Which is why I said a while back I didn't think we needed OBJ.

Once again, I like Higgins. He's okay. I strongly disagree w/the statement that he is the "go-to" guy. I was going to let WSU's comment go, but when he started making fun of Pit, I had to step in.

They, they want to argue about who the "go-to" guy was and act like Pit was stupid.

Joining one another in completely missing the point.

Did you or did you not say he was Baker's go to guy? What did I miss?

Baker got zero reps with the first team in Haley's offense until he came in cold on national TV and beat the Jets to break Hue's losing streak. Rookie QB...on a 1-31 team coming off of the prior years...no reps with the first team...I think it's aggressive to say he didn't play well in Haley's offense.

Baker played well in Freddie's version of Haley's offense and did so with Zeitler in from of him, Fells blocking and catching at TE and Higgins as his go-to guy. None of those guys were here or a factor in...

Freddie's offense that was so bad and player prep so lacking that I don't see how any analysis of the 2019 offense can be rated/valued/debated without a huge asterisk laying out the dysfunction and incompetence that was in abundance.

I think you might be suggesting there is a link between the number of snaps a WR is on the field for and how many targets they are likely to see? Or did I miss something?

I like Higgins. I'm sure I like him and rate him higher than he's really worth, that's the fan in me when I see/remember him make a play to extend a drive, it sticks in the memory maybe more than it deserves/deserved. I have no idea why he was in the dog house last year. No idea what the plan is moving forward, although that fan in me that remembers some of the plays he made hopes he sticks and contributes. I don't really care if someone suggests Higgins was a go to guy or not ... Landry and OBJ are vastly better WR's and they should be Baker's go to - I hope they get some chemistry together.

Yeah, we have an agenda and you don't.

Thats a good point .... was Brian 4th or 5th on the team in receptions like Higgs ... ...

Higgs has always been overrated on this board ... and the fact he’s still a FA is 100% proof of that ... Higgs is just another guy with some height and great hands ... i like Higgs ... love guys that catch the ball ..... hope he comes back ... but he’s not near as good or valuable as he’s made out to be on here ...