DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free Agency - Cont’d

I'd be surprised if they did, because I don't see the team signing someone to roughly an equivalent contract size (annually) and then keeping the other as backup making $15.5M.

It would not surprise me if the Browns and Vernon's people haven't been in touch about his deal. I would think that some players, especially coming off injuries, might value security right now.

Good point.

Just not sure what that security is for Vernon and how that benefits Cleveland. If you are referring to whether or not they play games because of COVID, those game checks affect all players if they don't happen. Whether the contract goes down in 2020, pay means little if the games don't happen for all, and I doubt the Browns would restructure his current deal to where there is some guaranteed $ at this point. The Browns have all the leverage. Cutting him costs nothing and perhaps they use the cap as the basis to have someone else signed, but also, approach someone like Garrett now to put some of that money on the books in 2020.

Putting some Garret money on the books in 2020 would be ideal. Not sure if it is realistic, however. Plus I think he has to get formally reinstated first.

Just a comment. The better the team, you can draft for need.

If you are one player away, or you lost a starter on a SuperBowl type team, sure, you can draft for need.

It would be stupid not to if you couldn't get in done in FA.

For most teams, you best simply select the best player possible, and then someday, maybe you are good enough to draft for a need.

By all means, if you are a legit SuperBowl contender, pick the position you need. When you are only winning 5-6 games a year, or zero games a year, you need a lot.

I think you can agree with that.

I thought Myles was already reinstated?

My bad. He was.

Lock him up! (with a contract, of course)

Three things:

--I also thought Myles has already been reinstated.

--I am opposed to signing Clownery.

--New England has sucked in the draft in recent years.

To the third point, I agree. Probably because they are good enough and have been using high picks to fill a need.


It will catch up with them. When you are drafting late in the first round AND drafting for needs, that is risky business, but again, I understand why teams might do that.

Sometimes to keep the window open a little longer, you reach.

NE has been playing a different (offseason) game than near everyone else for a while now. They kept "the window" open as long as possible.

Consistency (system and personnel) has also helped them better leverage vet FAs.

I fail to see the hype and gaga on retaining Vernon. His numbers are Carl Nassib-like.
That's not good at the kind of $$$$ he's making
He peaked years ago. His best days are gone.
They need to draft a DE at some point
I think all the best DE prospects in FA are all signed.

There is a lot more to the game than just looking at sack totals. Jesus!

j/c

I think the Browns will cut Vernon if they sign Clowney.

I'd rather they keep Vernon and let his contract play out. I know that's a ton of money on the DL. But he's only got one year left. He'd be a potential comp pick if he then (later) left as a FA.

Could be the same with Clowney if he does a one-year deal...and again the same with Hunt.

I'd like to see the Browns name plastered all over the comp picks list like it seems I see every year for teams who are perennially better than us. JMO

I don't think I'd want Clowney on a one year deal. We already have Vernon on an expensive one year deal.

The attraction of Clowney is that he's still young; it would be nice to lock up a player of his skills for three, four, five years.

J/c

I dont see us keeping both Vernon and Clowney. Clowney is a bit better IMO

Yeah I know ...
But when you scout or Research a DE what are
The coaches looking for....can he sack or disrupt
The Qb. ?
Can he get the QB to get out of his comfort level. ? Can totally foul up the timing of the drop back ?
It's a passing league . You know that
Vernon really didn't do that at a high level last
Year.

Just curious.....What kind of device do you used to make posts?

Not aimed at me, but I know that my Android phone acts funny when typing into the quick response box (especially if the post gets to be a certain length).

Vernon had one of the best pressure rates in the league last year. Vernon’s problem isn’t his performance it’s his lack of health.

My trusty phone

Vernon was a very good player when healthy. He had to be accounted for. Plus he really does hold the edge very well. That's huge in the run game.

Again folks, getting Clowney on a 3-4 year deal would be an immediate upgrade to the defense and the off-side DE. Paying him 18-19-million at least this year is a wash considering Vernon is scheduled to make 17-million with bonuses (assuming we let him go). Locking Clowney in for another 3-years is smart and eliminates the need at the position for the 4 years. Plus, if the Browns structure it right, Clowney's contract would look exactly like Vernon's where there's no dead money in the final year if they want to release him. Keeping them both (really?) would mean the Browns would have around 35-37 million invested in one position in 2020.

However, the thought process of paying the #8 valued position on the team this kind of money and hedging on going after Trent Williams for the #3 valued position for similar money and years is just plain confusing to me. The Browns have spent the off season upgrading the offense to the level where it might be considered feared in the NFL and we have complaints that a 31-year old 7-year straight Pro Bowl LT is too expensive or old and are thinking the Browns should select any of the 4 tackles deemed 1st rounders of which 2 of them where career RT's in college. Of the other two, 1 has technique issues and weight issues while the other is the only bonafide NFL ready LT in the draft that most likely won't even get to our pick. That said, after investing millions over the last 3-years building a feared veteran offense, posters here are asking the Browns to man the #3 valued position on the team with not only an unproven rookie but maybe even one who hasn't played the position. This is the person who's expected to protect Mayfield's blindside mind you.

All the while the posts keep coming that investing 18-20-million into the #8 valued position or worst yet keeping both players and having 35-37 million invested in the position would be a smart move when the #3 position is hanging open like a hair in a biscuit.

The other issue is that if the Browns follow some of what has been suggested here and sign Clowney, keep Vernon and be locked into taking a OT that may or may not even have played the position, what are the ideas on addressing LB, MLB, S, SS and DT to a lessor extent? Though no guarantee, signing Williams would allow the Browns to address two of those areas with their 1st round and 2nd round picks. Even if Williams is only at 80-90% of what he was in 2018, he would still be heads and heels above an untested 50/50 shot rookie.

Oh one final note on drafting a LT in the draft. For each of you that want to refer back to the Joe Thomas draft, I want to refer you back to the Tony Mandarich draft. Thomas was considered a can't miss but Manadrich was considered the best offensive line prospect ever. We all know the tale of the tape with these two guys and none of the tackles coming out this year have any of the talk that Thomas and Mandarich generated leading into their draft days. Just an observation......

Wasn't Mandarich a Steroids Meathead who was addicted to drugs and alcohol?


I doubt any of these guys have those issues. At this point we know their backgrounds well enough to fall for that

Are you Trent's Agent?

I feel good about Bill Callahan being here to assist in deciding which OT is the one we can and should pick. No offense to those here who have coached, but he is reportedly one of the best, if not THE best OL coach in the league. If Callahan is confident that Wills or Wirfs can man our left tackle spot, that's good enough for me.

How have we faired in trusting our coaching staffs since 1999?

What other option is there?
If you can't trust the person, you shouldn't have hired them.

Well, someone made some pretty good calls picking Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joel Bitonio, and Mitchell Schwartz, among others. Besides that, I have no problem with having higher expectations from Bill Callahan than some of those slappies.

Agree.

I didn't.

I'll leave it the way I stated it.



I'm not disputing whether or not that's what we'll do. As you said, we have no choice. I'm just questioning the wisdom of fans who seem to think we should trust their decisions.

Well, conversely, whether or not fans trust them is utterly meaningless.

As long as Berry trusts the coach is the only thing that matters.

Actually, whether the player they pick at #10 is a great player or not is the only thing that matters. You know how regimes come and go around here. The only thing that really matters is what we're all left with after they leave.

Yes, that applies as well even though it is completely unrelated to the conversation we were having regarding trusting coaches.

j/c:

I'm not being sarcastic or snarky, but do we even know if Callahan is going to be part of the decision-making draft team?

Since 1995, the Browns are 31st in compensatory picks with 12.....8 of those came in 2016, 2017 under one regime. The other 4 came in 2012.

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-pick-history/

The team with the most is the Ravens with 53.

What was our record during those two years? Those aren't the 1 and 31 years, are they?

Of course, Hue know it was 1-31.

I'm only assuming he will be. He did accompany Berry and Stefanski to the Combine where they observed and interviewed the top OL candidates.

I don't think we *know*, but neither Berry nor Stefanski strike me as the type to not seek input. Everything about them is about getting information and points of view to make decisions as opposed to the typical NFL mindset of "I know better than you" egoism.