DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season 2020 NFL Draft Your Top 5 OL Prospects For The Draft

Vers was an OL coach too and he disagrees.

See, I'm not saying it's impossible. But having been an OL coach I'm sure that you understand that muscle memory and the ability to play the opposite side is not am given. That's more my point.

Forcing someone to switch positions only makes the odds a little longer. As such, this would impact their draft status on the big board.

J/c ...

I don’t understand ... I really don’t ...

IF they have the skill set to play tackle at the NFL level shouldn’t they be “athletic enough” to make the switch from one tackle spot top the other fairly simple ... were not splitting atoms here ...

Your telling me they can’t learn to take there first step back with there other foot ... its not like we have 8 of them ... *L* ... same with everything else ...

Dude’s athletic enough to play tackle at the nfl level and your telling me they can’t do it from the other side cause “reversing” there process is to hard for them ...

I’m not buying it ....

Have you tried throwing with your non-dominant hand? "Flipping sides" is not always as simple as it sounds.

So how many OT's did you switch from RT to LT and at what level?

My point was simply that not everyone who is qualified shares your opinion.

I also stated that I wasn't saying it was impossible. It's just simply something we haven't seen done and there must be some reason for that. Even when you look at players like Vick at QB, his RT's were never converted to LT's.

As I said, when you switch an OT from one side to another, there's a learning curve. Not all of them will make that transition. There is a risk factor to be considered in such a situation.

As such, that risk factor factors into where you place them on your big board.

Now if you would like to discuss that, fine.

I would say that throwing or learning to throw from the other side is way more difficult - and its not even close.

I doubt it's as hard as throwing accurately with your non-dominant hand......

While I agree with you in principal, learning to do things in the total reverse of the way you're doing it now, and have been most of your life, is certainly not a given by any stretch. There's certainly a risk factor involved in counting on that.

1. Thomas
2. Wirfs
3. Wills
4. Cleveland
5. Jackson/Jones

According to Dane Brugler, he has been told the Browns FO really likes Ezra Cleveland (could be smoke, of course) but I wonder if a trade down would be in the works if their top 1 or 2 guys are off the board. Now, every team in the NFL knows the Browns need and LT so they would have to be pretty damn sure they could get their guy later on if that were the case.

Mike Vick's years with the Falcons (2002 to 2006), there's no tackle name that stands out to me. Both LT's he had on either side of his Kevin Schaffer years were older guys i never heard of. His RT for those year though was a guy named Todd Weiner. Todd Weiner played on the Seahawks before Atlanta. The LT on the Seahawks was Walter Jones. Didn't really have a choice on what side he would play there. He started as a RT (i assume) the 2001 season. He went to Atlanta in 2002. So, I don't think they were going to move a guy who played LT for 10 years in the NFL to RT when they drafted Vick (the Falcons original LT). And we don't know how good of a LT Weiner could have been because Walter Jones is a HOF LT. But he is highly regarded in Atlanta.

Also remember, Mike Vick is not your prototypical passer. He was a running QB. Often rolling to his left.



I just don't think the Vick example is very good because they weren't going to move a guy who played LT for them for 10 years when Vick showed up. Then Schaffer came on, and we know plenty about him. Then another older Vet showed up. The whole time this Weiner guy played the RT position.

I had to when i was a kid ... i broke my right arm and was forced to use my left .... for me ... no problem ... one of my biggest strengths in hoops was i could drive either way and from 15 feet in shoot with either hand ... i was a peanut yet those driving hook shots made me the tallest dude on the court ... *L* ...

I see what your saying ... i don’t agree with it but i see what your saying ...

We use our arms daily in regards to witch one is dominant ... unless your kicking not so much with your feet ... and these guys have taken far less reps dropping with one foot then we do throwing with our dominant arms ...

Also ... how many of us played tackle in the nfl .... some may have been atheletic enough but i would imagine that’s very very few of us ... *L* ...

It might take a month of reps ... but if it takes much longer than that ... your prolly not good enough anyhow ... ...

Run him through some drills doing it ... if he keeps tripping move on .. *L* ...

I've asked for any example and haven't heard anyone present one yet.

Once again, I'm saying that there's most certainly a learning curve. One that adds some question marks. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm also saying that when you are "depending" on that working, those question marks most certainly impact where a player is rated on your big board. That's why I'm saying you just can't say.... "I think all of these guys would be good LT's so we can draft any of them at #10". Well I guess you can say it but common sense dictates otherwise.

It simply doesn't work that way.

By the time you get to the third rated LT, I'm sure there are many players at other positions that will be rated much higher on your board. Especially when you're depending on a player to switch positions.

So in order to draft the third rated LT in this draft, you will have to ignore your big board and draft need over your top rated players on the board.

lol I don't think that's what anyone is saying.

I think any time you expect a player to switch positions, doing things the opposite way they have done something their entire career, it brings into question the certainty of it being successful. As such it impacts where you have them ranked on your big board.

As such, whether we draft a LT at #10 will certainly depend on who is left on the board. It's not a "place name here" scenario at #10. I've seen it posted that any of the four top rated NFL draft prospects at LT are worthy of the #10 pick. I think we both know better than that.

1) Wills, with the position change is my top rated LT.

After Wills, I like Andrew Thomas. If either are there, it's a no brainer to me. I still think i'd select Wirfs or Becton as well. LT's are hard to find. They're very good prospects, in most drafts they go within the top 10 as well.

I do this because of number 2



2) If we do not draft a LT at 10, we have to have a plan in place to secure that position. So, let's go your way. The only tackle there is Wills, and you think he's not a safe enough option to man our LT position. What are you going to do to protect Baker's blindside? Kendall Lam, I've heard was pretty darn bad in Houston? Cause i still have PTSD from that video of Justin McCray and whoever our TE was, screwing up the block on Bud Dupree and getting Baker Smoked. We invest in a QB at number 1. Supposed to be the franchise guy, and we have Kendall Lam blocking his blindside to start the season?

Or do we trade for Trent Williams? How much of a percentage of the cap does our O-Line become if we have Williams, Bitonio, Tretter, and Conklin on contracts? And then we're stuck in the same predicament when Williams has to be replaced........


That's the issue for me. There's four good prospects. Some better than others. We have a gaping hole at LT. Financially, it makes sense to fix it with a draft pick. We don't have a lot of other options. Trent Williams who hasn't played football lately, missed games in the last seasons he's played, and wants a new contract; or Jason Peters who is 38.

The key sentence being "fix it with a draft pick". If you reach out of need you may not only neglect to fix the problem but also blow the #10 pick in the draft.

Your scenario wreaks of reaching based on dire need. That's never been a sound draft strategy with a top 10 pick.

I would think most RTs in college probably spent most of their careers playing LT. Typically the best player in high school and even middle school plays left tackle. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter because it does. Some kids can’t get used to the change in footwork.

As to what Berry said...

I have thought about it as well as read comments from Tucker, Schwartz and Golic Jr. and I believe what they all are saying is that it doesn’t matter anymore because of the athletic ability it takes to play the position now is so high for both sides. No longer is the best pass rusher lined up across from the left tackle. I don’t know how many plays a game NFL offenses line up a TE to pass block, let alone what side they line up on. I would love to see those numbers because I don’t think they would be that out of whack.

I don't think you can compare high school to either the NCAA or the NFL. But I understand what you're saying.

j/c:

Unbelievable. But then again, maybe not so hard to believe. LOL

j/c:

Here's hoping the Chargers take him at 6.

“I think Mekhi Becton is the guy that fits the Browns’ system, really well actually. Not only is he the size of Jonathan Ogden, but he’s also the athleticism of Jonathan Ogden,” Thomas said. “Now that’s not saying he’s going to have a first ballad hall of fame career, but I think the combination of Bill Callahan (O-Line Coach), and a system run by Kevin Stefanski that fits big athletic guys perfectly, it would just be such a great fit and it would be so fun to watch him out there at Left Tackle for like 10 years.”

Joe Thomas

https://onthelakesports.com/2020/04/10/joe-thomas-browns-draft-prediction/

I love Joe Thomas the player, and Joe Thomas the technician as he talks about his craft, but I've never seen Joe Thomas the Analyst talk critically of another player. It's almost like Chucky talking about a QB... each and every one is the best one ever. It makes it kinda hard to give it full weight anymore.

I don’t have a lot of faith in Joe the analyst. You are right about him not being critical of players. However, the fact that he thinks Becton is a better fit than the others makes me want to take a second look.

I'd wait a week and see if there is a video on one of the other guys where Joe thinks he's a great fit and would love to see him playing here for 10 years.

j/c:

I've been thinking that since some folks are pretty adamant that there is no difference between playing LT or RT, then we can just move Conklin to LT, right?

Is someone really saying there is no difference? I haven't been on all day and about to log off to go have dinner and play board games with the family .... prefer to not to have to read every post to verify.

j/c:

When I say there is no difference I mean in the importance of the position, not in the actual playing of the position on the field.

I wasn't calling you out. I was speaking more to the articles and what Berry said about being no difference in playing LT or RT. I think I put "j/c" when I responded because I didn't want to offend anyone.

NOTESNotes: Andrew Berry not concerned about right tackles in college making switch to left side in NFLby Scott Petrak April 10, 2020

General manager Andrew Berry is keeping his options open as he looks for a left tackle in the upcoming draft.

Berry said Friday he doesn’t get hung up on left tackle vs. right tackle as he evaluates prospects. That seems to increase the chances of the Browns drafting Alabama’s Jedrick Wills or Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs with the No. 10 pick April 23. Wills was strictly a right tackle in college and Wirfs played mostly right tackle.

“From my perspective, tackles are tackles,” Berry said on a conference call. “In terms of guys making the switch, certainly there is an element of muscle memory that needs to be reprogrammed, so to speak, for people who have played one side or the other for a long period of time.

“If you look, Jack Conklin was a college left tackle that has been a pretty well-accomplished right tackle in our league. Perhaps the best example of a career college right tackle who has been a pretty good left tackle in our league is (Dallas’) Tyron Smith. Sometimes those distinctions can be a bit overemphasized. In today’s game, the two tackle positions may not be identical, but they are pretty close.”

ADVERTISEMENT

The Browns signed Conklin last month for three years and $42 million. He’s slotted to be the right tackle after playing there with the Titans.

Georgia’s Andrew Thomas and Louisville’s Mekhi Becton are considered the other top candidates for the Browns at No. 10, and each has a lot of experience at left tackle. Wills and Wirfs are extremely athletic, but sometimes linemen struggle when changing sides.

“I don’t think he has any physical problems with him, now the guy’s never done it, you never know can he get in a left-hand stance and how long is it going to take him to adapt to all that. I can’t answer that,” Alabama coach Nick Saban told The Chronicle-Telegram recently regarding Wills.

Berry also considers right tackle as important as left tackle in today’s NFL.

“Honestly, I think the distinction between left and right tackle is really outdated,” he said. “We are no longer in the days of football where teams will have their best rusher and line him up on the defensive right side and offensive left side of the formation. Really, the game is not played that way. From my perspective, tackles are tackles.

“The requirements of both the left and the right tackle in today’s sport are just as challenging. You are going to face top rushers every week at both spots.”

Berry confident Browns will be prepared for unique draft setup

SOLID START

Berry has added 13 players since the start of the league year March 18, highlighted by Conklin, tight end Austin Hooper, defensive tackle Andrew Billings and cornerback Kevin Johnson.

“We thought they had the talent and the skill sets that would fit really well into our offensive and defensive systems,” Berry said of the additions. “We think they embody the characteristics that we are looking for in terms of people, fitting into our locker room and fitting into our organization. We like the value we got for the players. I think it is a good start to the offseason.”

Safety Karl Joseph agreed to a one-year deal March 18 and is expected to start, but the team has yet to announce the signing.

“The big thing there is the physical,” Berry said. “The focus of the hospital system is rightfully so on COVID-19 so it can be a little more challenging from state to state. That is really the only reason he has not been announced, but we do not anticipate any significant problems.”

ONE AND DONE?

Billings, Johnson, Joseph, linebacker B.J. Goodson and safety Andrew Sendejo got one-year deals after Conklin, Hooper and backup quarterback Case Keenum signed multiyear contracts.

“Some of it is really just not forcing the market’s hand,” Berry said of the one-year deals. “Some of them did find perhaps a more depressed market than they were expecting going into the process. It did work out that way, but part of it was just trying to be opportunistic as we navigated some of the different player markets.”

GETTING ALONG

They haven’t been together in the team facility recently, but Berry raved about working with coach Kevin Stefanski and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta.

“He has an incredible sense of humor and an incredible wit,” Berry said of Stefanski. “He can really get me going just because he has such a sharp wit. He is a really, really funny guy. I can’t wait when we do open the building back up and our players get to know him a little bit more intimately. I know they are going to embrace him.”

As for DePodesta, Berry said he brings a unique perspective to the role after spending two decades in front offices of Major League Baseball teams.

“It is something that both Kevin and I have hit on of how fantastic of a thought partner Paul has been in a variety of the football operations domains,” Berry said.

EXTRA POINTS

Berry opened the call by thanking public health officials and medical professionals for their roles in dealing with the coronavirus pandemic. He also commended the Haslams, Baker Mayfield, Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward and Larry Ogunjobi for their charitable donations, and urged everyone to stay at home to help slow the spread of the virus.

** Berry said a shortened, or canceled, offseason program will be a “challenge” but compared it to the 2011 lockout that erased the offseason.

“Teams navigated that fine,” he said. “It creates a different environment, but it is not like it is the first time that organizations or teams have had to deal with it or deal with adversity. We will be ready to go.”


https://www.brownszone.com/2020/y04/10/n...ft-side-in-nfl/

Did u have to go there P ... now Pit’s gotta argue with Andy over this .. *L*

Pit at least give Andy credit for answering your question and giving u an example of someone switching from college RT to NFL LT ...

I'm surprised that you are agreeing w/those who think that playing RT is the same as playing LT.

It's obviously just your opinion and you are welcome to that, but you are usually smarter than that.

I didn’t say that .... i agreed 100& with u until i saw who else was saying it might be true ... still on your side for one simple reason ... u can’t see what’s behind u ... if MG beats the LT and u have a right handed an ... it could be the end of your an if he can’t see MG coming ...

To me .. there’s a difference in what side u play based on that ... but like P said ... i wanna learn more about why some of the best to ever play the game are saying it doesn’t matter anymore ...

Your not curious as to why else they say there’s no difference?

I felt like this was relevant. Coming from one of the best LT's in football right now (as much as it hurts to say it).

Basically, Ronnie Stanley says that protecting the blindside is an extra weight on your shoulders (but, something that Wills certainly carried at Alabama protecting the Left Handed Tua)

This is an awesome breakdown - I'd like to see the same done for Thomas, Cleveland and Becton.

That’s a neat, insightful quote. It makes sense to me

No, you are stating an opinion. Just like I've been stating mine. What are you doing, trying to invalidate my opinion?

See how that works?

You're stating what you believe. That doesn't make it "the truth".