U guys will believe/say anything to pin as much of this on trump as u can ...
China’s lied every step of the way on this and now u and the rest of the TDSer’s are blaming it on natures checks and balances as opposed to the testing the Chinese were doing in their lab ...
Wuhan testing lab = natures checks and balances ...
0+ 0 is once again a major problem ...
How long before this rabbit hole turns into trump causing this by pulling out of the Paris hose the USA Climate accord ..... its only a matter of time until y’all get there ..
That was a very interesting article. I don't agree w/the conclusion on the Wet Markets, but I agree w/what most of what the article is saying.
A lot of different thoughts danced into my thoughts as I read the article, but I will just share a couple of them.
--A long time ago, I was watching an animated movie or show centered around the Beatles. In it, there was this dinosaur who ate plants, other animals, etc. Each time it would eat, the creature would go larger and the environment would shrink. It eventually devoured the entire environment and was left all on it's own. It was looking around for more to consume, and lo and behold, his swinging tail caught his eye. He then devoured that, and of course, himself.
The message from that animated piece and this article is clear. Man's desire to consume his environment to feed his insatiable need instead of living as a part of the land will eventually destroy him.
--The second thing is a quote from a book I am currently reading. The author is Chris Bohjalian and the story begins in Vietnam, where the US used Agent Orange to destroy large portions of the forest to aide in the battles. It talks about some of the consequences of such acts. The story moves on and there is talk about infectious diseases. I found this quote interesting and it ties in w/something that was mentioned in the article.
The quote is: "Let's face it, in all of human history, the most effective delivery vehicle for mass death ever to exist on earth has been--wait for it--the rat.
Expecting facts, not conspiracy theories or guess work is not anti Trump, it's anti stupid. There are republican outlets reporting the 'lab' theory as fact right now, and it is nothing more than unconfirmed speculation at this point.
US explores possibility that coronavirus spread started in Chinese lab, not a market
Also, creating unnecessary conflict with China before this is properly investigated is nothing more than a reactionary fool's errand. Now if any of the allegations against China or the WHO pan out as verifiable facts that prove they are at fault, I'll be right there with you calling for some sort of action.
I hope you can stop feeling sorry for Trump long enough to wrap around that.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 04/17/2009:12 AM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Our last three four or five Presidents as well as those in government dropped the ball on this. You can't blame this crap on one President. They are ALL to blame on both sides. Don't let your hatred of one side blind you to the facts bro.
Can't speak for Bush 1 or Clinton or for that matter Reagan.
But in 2005 Bush made it clear that we aren't prepared for anything like we are experiencing today. So he started this entire pandemic team approach and set it up,..
Obama didn't kill it as many claim, in fact he enhanced it.
It turns out, maybe not enough
But this president virtually killed the entire pandemic team..All our preparation down the tube..
So please, don't even begin to tell me we can't trace our inability to move quickly to address this Virus... we had things in place, but this damn fool pulled the plug on it.
Remember he said, " I'm a business man, I don't like it when people are sitting around doing nothing"
That's what he thought,,, He thought they were doing nothing.
Trying to protect or defend this president and his cronies is a foolish pursuit.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Our last three four or five Presidents as well as those in government dropped the ball on this. You can't blame this crap on one President. They are ALL to blame on both sides. Don't let your hatred of one side blind you to the facts bro.
It's a funny thing. I show you proof Trump sent tons of PPE supplies to China AFTER he knew the virus was coming. And this is all you got?
Have you been listening to anything he has said. "When I became president the cupboard was bare". Yet he watched tons of supplies ship off to China. And now we're supposed to blame others for it? That's pretty rich Bud.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Obviously the man who is quoted is highly credible. . . the article, not so much if at all. It jumps to and states as fact a conclusion. However in reading the article there is no quote that states as such.
One short quote:
""In a challenging question Dr Jean-François Lemoine inferred that the coronavirus under investigation may have come from a patient who is otherwise infected with HIV.""
Then this quote which doesn't seem to be giving us much context:
"""No," says Luc Montagnier, "in order to insert an HIV sequence into this genome, molecular tools are needed, and that can only be done in a laboratory.""
I'd say Montagnier is speculating that it possibly came from a lab IF certain things about the virus turn out to be true.
I think there'd be much more wide spread coverage of what this Nobel Prize winner said if he was claiming something as definitive.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Over time, Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis,[c] advocating what CNN Business called an anti-establishment and conspiratorial worldview, and which has been associated with alt-right views,[5][13] and a pro-Russian bias.[14][15][16][1] Other sources describe Zero Hedge as libertarian.[4][5] Zero Hedge's non-financial commentary has led to a number of § Site bans by various global social media platforms, some of which have been overturned (e.g. 2019 Facebook ban),[17] while others remain (e.g. 2020 Twitter ban).[5]
Lead researcher at Wuhan virus lab warned that SARS-like coronavirus outbreaks linked to bats could happen in China almost a year before COVID-19 hit the city
My sister retired from Cleveland Clinic. She knows and worked with Dr. Fauci. She spent 40 years in infectious disease and has a law degree.
Yes but we live in the age where people are their own experts and declare a verdict based on nothing more than their gut. Your sister and her 40 years of experience with infectious diseases and working alongside Fauci will just make her a target for undermining and attack if she has a different opinion than the Trump faithful. And yes the same does happen in reverse - there are leftist people too that would attack and undermine people offering differing opinions. But I think for myself it's on display with Trump in more than any other group. . . . just revisit how Mueller - a lifelong Republican who has served his country as a Marine and within the Government after being appointed by Bush, with honor ... and was greatly respected by ALL - was systematically attacked by Trump and his cronies. It's definitely part of Trump's play book.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Lead researcher at Wuhan virus lab warned that SARS-like coronavirus outbreaks linked to bats could happen in China almost a year before COVID-19 hit the city
Lead researcher at Wuhan virus lab warned that SARS-like coronavirus outbreaks linked to bats could happen in China almost a year before COVID-19 hit the city
China stealing intellectual property. Does anyone remember a thread about this from several months ago?
The trade war with china? Trump had the nerve to stand up to china, and hit them where it hurt: Food.
As I said back then, I had spoken personally with a member of a u.s. ag. commission who had traveled to China, Australia, and several countries in s. America.
The trade war was about protecting the u.s. It was about short term pain, for long term gain.
Soybeans? People on here were blaming trump like crazy for hurting the farmers, especially bean farmers.
Guess what? Just like I said back then, china can't do without our beans, and lo and behold, the u.s. started selling beans to argentina (I think that was the country - I may be off), who proceeded to process the beans, and ship them to china.
china can't do without our beans. They have people, and livestock, to feed.
China also is about as trustworthy as a clinton.
If anyone believes their self reported numbers on covid deaths, they are delusional. The U.S. is currently doing their best to determine where the virus started. A lab in Wuhan is the center of the attention.
The gov't. in china doesn't care about their 1.3 billion citizens, so losing a million or 5 million was no big deal. The gov't. cares about power and influence, so killing people in other countries is no big deal to them either.
The U.S. hurt china with the trade war. China has retaliated with a virus that has stopped the u.s. economy. I have no doubt that's what it is, and there may be some nefarious other actors involved. The chinese gov't. doesn't care about deaths.
You know.................y'all drive me nuts at times.
Clem, an intelligent poster, makes a post about the things we do as humans that are unleashing viruses. I think.......man, that is a talking point. A damn good talking point.
Milk, who is another intelligent poster, posts a very good article on man's influence on unlocking and spreading these deadly viruses. Damn..........that is a helluva great talking point. It was a great building block on Clem's post. There were a ton of things to consider, contemplate, and address.
I tried to talk about those things w/some anecdotal quips. Just to get people to think. Hoping to spark further conversation.
And what follows? "Trump is to blame." Followed by "No, he is not."
You freaking guys are incapable of having an intellectual conversation and instead regurgitate the same crap over and over and over no matter what the topic is.
Our planet is under attack and you are still concentrating on political preferences and ingrained opinions instead of looking for solutions to solve the freaking problem!!!
I am sorry if I sounded mean. That wasn't my intent. Y'all just frustrate me w/this stupid blame game thing. What does that solve?
Anyway, before Pit or someone says this is the Political forum and what's wrong w/discussing political ideas in here.....I want to ask and say this.
--Why must political conversations be confrontational?
--What is wrong w/recognizing what was wrong, but then focusing our attention on how to find solutions to the problem rather than fixating on which side is to blame?
Come on, guys. We are citizens of the world. It's in our best interests to work together.
It's a funny thing. I show you proof Trump sent tons of PPE supplies to China AFTER he knew the virus was coming. And this is all you got?
Yet you failed to show me where any of the other presidents set us up with supplies PPE's, respirators, or anything else we need. You only Blame Trump (which I agree deserves blame just like the others)
1. Do people believe that infectious diseases are going to increase as we forward in time? [See Clem's post and Milk's supporting article for clarification.]
2. Do people believe that man's ravaging of our forests and the the animals/plants induce and stimulate the growth of these viruses?
3. For those of you who say "yes" to the first two questions, I ask this: What can we do to help w/the problem?
3a. Do you think getting into heated political discussions where we blame the other side will do any good?
3b. If you dismiss point 3a, what is it that we can do in order to invoke change? I will throw a couple of things out there in point 4, if you are still w/me.
4. I try to examine what has worked in the past to solve societal problems. There are hundreds of examples, but I will just point to one as a reference point. In the early 20th century, Child Labor reached its peak. Reforms were eventually written into law that changed Child Labor Laws. How did this occur? Photos of disgusting child labor practices were popularized. Articles, books, poems, songs were written. The general population was horrified and spoke up. They wrote to their local congressmen. They demanded reform. Committees were founded to study the problem and while it took a long time, new laws were eventually passed.
5. I am saying that instead of bickering w/one another about who deserves blame and pointing fingers like emotional children, we demand reform. We write. We educate. We don't stop until we produce change. We beat them w/intelligence and resolve. We do so because it is the right thing to do.
You really avoided anything that I said. What changed? They were buying grain before. Are they suddenly paying more for it now? I don't think so. Are they buying more of it than they were before? Not that the links you provided have shown.
So how did we "win"?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It's a funny thing. I show you proof Trump sent tons of PPE supplies to China AFTER he knew the virus was coming. And this is all you got?
Yet you failed to show me where any of the other presidents set us up with supplies PPE's, respirators, or anything else we need. You only Blame Trump (which I agree deserves blame just like the others)
Here's what I blame Trump for. He KNEW it was coming and did NOTHING to ramp up production of PPE or ventilators for between 6 and 8 weeks later. That was valuable time lost.
Now you go ahead and try and compare that to everyone else who didn't have a virus of this magnitude breathing down their necks and on the way to our shores if you like. Ignore that the very man in charge, knowing it was coming did NOTHING to help prepare for it if you like. But that's BS.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Did Trump screw up.... like I have said over, and over, and OVER yes he sure as hell did. I have never said otherwise. Why is it so hard for you to admit that past Presidents and our government did as well. They just all kept kicking it down the line hoping that it didn't happen on their watch.
Who's fault is it that the states can't get more of the reaction/reactive agent that our Federal Government controls. Is it all Trumps fault? All the CDC's fault? All our Governments fault? The FDA's fault? Everybody could be doing more testing but it's all being bogged down by red tape.
I've been thinking about this a lot bro. I'm not sure we should blame Trump for his inaction. He's too stupid to wrap around it without somebody dragging him to the conclusion that it was serious. There are plenty around him that failed in that, but Trump maybe not so much. With his one track "how does this affect me" factless mind, it's really not surprising that he failed to act until it was on his doorstep. That's also why we are seeing his MAGAt minions act out like the world is ending over the shutdown right now, it negatively affects Trump's reelection hopes... In that world, Trump trumps everything, especially common sense and personal responsibility.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Yeah, every other president watched a virus headed straight for us and waited six weeks to do anything.
Under a national emergency order that red tape can be cut. It's as if it doesn't exist. Let me guess, you believe it has nothing to do with the fact that the Trump administration has botched anything and everything that resembles logistics?
I guess if you believe everything Trump says at his briefings you might think the way you do. But according to Trump, in his own words on March 6th, “Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That’s what the bottom line is,”
It seems he has no clue what you're talking about while you try to compare him to others that didn't screw up when a virus like this was staring them right in the face.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
1st off bro I have said over, and over Trump screwed things up. Now since you want to ignore that fact and keep crying about Trump have at it. I'm done. It's not worth wasting my time over. You don't want to hear it. You also want to ignore the truth that others failed to act as well. That has ZERO do do with Trumps failures. That's a whole other subject that you want to ignore. Now have at it I won't reply in this thread again.
Now you can say and I would agree that supplies were not in place for a pandemic. But how does that excuse waiting for weeks on end to start ramping up the supply chain? How does that explain ignoring the playbook in place to respond to such a thing?
The only thing you can say is that we didn't have enough supplies in place to fight a pandemic. The problem is there was enough time to beef up those supplies before the virus actually hit us hard.
Other people aren't president now and much of this could have been mitigated much better.
And let's be honest here. Trump's claim is, "When I took over the cupboards were bare". He had well over three years to stock those cupboards.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Over time, Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis,[c] advocating what CNN Business called an anti-establishment and conspiratorial worldview, and which has been associated with alt-right views,[5][13] and a pro-Russian bias.[14][15][16][1] Other sources describe Zero Hedge as libertarian.[4][5] Zero Hedge's non-financial commentary has led to a number of § Site bans by various global social media platforms, some of which have been overturned (e.g. 2019 Facebook ban),[17] while others remain (e.g. 2020 Twitter ban).[5]
yeah unlike the USA, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Brazil, Pakistan, Afghanistan...shall I go on?
