DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Money time for Moneyball: Can analytics finally work for the Cleveland Browns?

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio — “Alignment” is good only if everyone is lined up in the right direction.

“Alignment” was what Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam sought following the firing of GM John Dorsey and coach Freddie Kitchens after the 2019 season.

They wanted a GM and a coach to not only have the same general approach to football, but also have the personalities to work well together.

Looming over the change was Paul DePodesta, the team’s chief strategy officer.

While never stated publicly, it’s obvious DePodesta has emerged as the person with the most football-related influence over the Haslams.

DePodesta pushed for the hiring of Kevin Stefanski as head coach before the 2019 season.

Dorsey went with Kitchens. Both are gone.

DePodesta remained, and Stefanski is now the head coach.

Andrew Berry has returned to be the general manager.

The three Ivy League products are disciples of analytics. Yes, most Browns fans hear “analytics” and they think 1-31.

One win in two years (2016-17).

In 2016, the front office headed by Sashi Brown and DePodesta stripped down the roster. Coach Hue Jackson said he understood what was coming in terms of dumping veterans when he took the job, but he couldn’t stand the pain. Nor did he buy into the emphasis on stats driving the organization.

Alignment?

There were so many hands grabbing the wheel and jerking it in different directions, it set up yet another chaotic crash for Brown,Jackson and eventually Dorsey.

THE SURVIVOR

DePodesta is the one survivor from 2016, and he gained influence. Berry eventually left the Browns for he Eagles during the Dorsey administration. He returned after Stefanski was hired.

DePodesta.

Berry.

Stefanski.

Alignment?

In theory, that should be the case.

The Haslams have been intrigued by analytics because they used data to reveal what customers bought (and didn’t buy) in their Pilot Flying J stores. It helped them make wise choices when it came to ordering inventory. Why can’t it work with player acquisition, if applied the right way?

There was one other problem in 2016 beyond the philosophical difference between the front office and some of the veteran coaches.

DePodesta, Berry and Brown were new to their jobs.

No matter the approach — traditional football or analytics — they were likely to make some major rookie mistakes.

“It has been a great learning experience for me,” DePodesta said in his Thursday conference call. “I feel a lot more comfortable today than I did four years ago in terms of my knowledge of players. ... warning signs. ... that type of thing.”

DePodesta came to the Browns in 2016 directly from the New York Mets, where he was vice president of amateur scouting and player development. He was a “baseball guy,” one of the Godfathers of baseball’s Moneyball approach.

IT’S THEIR TIME

DePodesta has been through drafts with two guys whose views varied widely — the new football age Brown and the traditional Dorsey.

Now Berry comes back to the Browns after spending some time with the Philadelphia Eagles.

Stefanski has been with Minnesota, a solid organization.

DePodesta and Berry have discussed having “a specific plan” for free agency. Spend on offense, especially the line (tackle Jack Conklin) and tight end (Austin Hooper).

Both men and Stefanski use the phrase “quarterback-centric” to describe their big offseason moves. They want to back QB Baker Mayfield with a better line, a strong pass-catching tight end and a role model backup QB in Case Keenum.

Stefanski and Berry have brought a human element to choosing players.

Both rattle off their mantra of “smart, tougher, accountable” in terms of the type of people they want in a Browns uniform. Dorsey tended to let talent blind him to significant character flaws in players.

IT’S MONEY TIME

Now the comes the draft, and the need for a left tackle.

The training wheels should be gone from this group. The temptation will be to trade down in the draft. DePodesta said the team was open to dealing up or down, but admitted, “We do have a philosophy, that more picks is better.”

That’s true, assuming the picks are used wisely.

The decision they make in this draft regarding left tackle has enormous implications for 2020. If they don’t draft a viable tackle at No. 10, they better find one elsewhere.

Other draft decisions are important, too.

But the big test is how they answer the left tackle question.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04...FNN41QBIhJ86TOk

Rought ro RuRu ....

Had to quit reading after the first line ....

KJ DID NOT GET FIRED TERRY .... just ask Peen, WSU Willie and the sashiettes ...

Man is that silly rabbit in tWouble ... *L* ...

And then it went from bad to worse ... you’ll be hearing from GM & Peen soon Terry ...



...

I don't make the news, I just report it.

Then there's this little gem....



Now, suddenly Pluto will be a hack. You know how that works.

j/c

I am SOOOOOOO over hearing the over-used, completely abused buzzwords "moneyball" and "analytics".

Good grief. You know what it says to me when people throw these words around? It tells me they haven't the slightest clue at all what they actually refer to. They're just using buzzwords to sound "in the know" or to paint a picture.

I'm sure there is contact information at the provided link with how to send Pluto your thoughts about that.

I guess this might provide another hot item to debate and poke each other over during the slow season ....

Most important thing for me in this, is right at the end:


""The training wheels should be gone from this group. The temptation will be to trade down in the draft. DePodesta said the team was open to dealing up or down, but admitted, “We do have a philosophy, that more picks is better.”

That’s true, assuming the picks are used wisely.

The decision they make in this draft regarding left tackle has enormous implications for 2020. If they don’t draft a viable tackle at No. 10, they better find one elsewhere.""

If they get it right and Stefanski can coach - no-one will care about any of the rest of it. . . . get it wrong and we'll be rinsing and repeating sooner than any of us want.

To an extent I agree with you. But to me it's more about the people who are actually make the pick or choice in how they address the LT position and Stefanski's ability to hire his staff.

I mean I really don't feel it will be Stefanski who will be in charge of working with and coaching our new LT. Bill Callahan certainly seems like a qualified man for the job.

So now we're back at looking at who is actually in charge of making the pick. And will they ever actually tell us that anyway? I highly doubt it. As it stands, Andrew berry is the Brown's GM. So the buck stops there.

Let's hope it all works out.

And some of us are sick of hearing how we now have "smart" guys in charge and they will do a great job. It works both ways.

Hue Jackson sucks.

No, I like Pluto. I just read it differently that you and Diam.

Dorsey wasn't fired. It was agreed he should move one when he couldn't agree to some changes. It is subtle.

There is no doubt Depo emerged as the last man standing and his influence has gained traction. Berry is still the guy with the final word. Not Depo.

I am glad Depo is here over John Dorsey, Hue Jackson or Freddie kitchens.

I think Berry, Depo, and Stefanski are going to be a very good team, and field a very good team.

But then again, I felt Dorsey was going to be the guy to get it done, but he turned out to be a bum.

As to the article, I do see alignment. All three of those guys talk the same language. Will it work, no telling until some time passes.

Thus far it seems to be. We have two guys in the FO working to provide the coach with players who fit his vision on how he wants the O to operate.

Hey, you know my feelings of fullbacks, at least the ones we have had. Stefanski deems the FB important, so I am glad we got one, and one who looks like he is more that just a meathead going in to the hole.

Right now I couldn't be happier with Berry. He has made bold moves and went out and got good players at position the coach feels we need.

I couldn't be happier with the strategy Depo has put in place.


It's pretty obvious we aren't ripping anything apart as some feared once Dorsey "resigned". LOL. OK...semi fired, how about we find neutral ground on that one. He should have been fired for the Kitchens hire, and I like Freddie the person and position coach. It became clear pretty quick I didn't like him as the head coach.

We will now see what the draft holds. If the right LT is there and our scouts have them rated, sure take him. Maybe move up if it makes sense. Move back when it makes sense.

As I have said elsewhere, I don't really want the 4th best LT with the 10th pick...4th best being determined that 3 other teams chose someone else.

I only want him if that's the guy we really wanted, but we will never know if we take him. Of course we will say we got our guy, but still, when other teams passed on him for someone else, I can't discount that. Other teams have good scouting departments.

The worst thing we can do is draft for need. Depo said we would stick to our board. If 2-3 tackles go before we pick, there will be better players on the board then the left over tackle.

Becton as an example, he may be quick today, but how is he going to be when he can afford more hotdogs? The guy is big and powerful, but he is a blimp. We don't even know what he weights today. Just sitting around the house, I could see him reporting to camp whenever that happens at near 400 lbs.

I wouldn't touch that guy with a footlong, because he would rip it out of my hands and eat it in 4 seconds.

Terry Pluto is a jerk and he needs to proofread his typos before he releases his next trash column.

Amazing.

Take it Pluto is not a very popular person, go figure!

I stopped reading after the title.

The analytic regime labeling irks the crap out of me.. Its the Berry and Stef show.. period. Let the analytic label go!

I don't think he was amazing.

I am just jerking a chain or two in fun.

I liked John. He just screwed the pooch in hiring Freddie. He should have hired Stefanski. Actually, he should have kept Greg Williams, but Greg is a strong personality and that would have never worked because John didn't want that.

True, but it is obvious the last group on top of the hill couldn't remain, just as the others before.


I still think we would have been better today had we kept John Collins and canned the doofus Savage.

Is that an actual quote?
Did Depodesta actually say "More picks is better"?
Did he actually use the word is after a plural word picks, and not the word are.

What is our language coming to, or should I just say
What R R language commin 2.

... I'm gonna go crawl back in a garbage can now.

He are "smart."

Smrt

Their best laid plans got Jack(son)ed up. Here's hoping Depo's plans don't get (st)effed up this time. At least he wanted Stefanski, so there's that.

It's laughable that people believe Dorsey actually did a good job.

I wouldn't say that. I think he did a very good job in some areas, and you and I are aligned in several areas. He did a good job of turning the roster around, but he did have the picks to do so. Some people seem to ignore the fact that was the plan.

The guy hired a weak coach because he wanted the coach under his thumb...at least that is my opinion, and I get the sense not many people in the building liked the guy. He just struck me as a dismissive gorilla, lumbering around the building. Not a personality many could warm up with. Plus, he looked like a goon. I like my GM looking like Berry looks. Put on some clothes and look like a professional for crying-out-loud. It doesn't have to be some expensive suit, though there is a time for that. How about a nice pair of Khakis and a crisp polo. That works. Short pants and a ratty sweatshirt just don't work for me. This guy is leading my team?

He was hard to watch as well. Pucker your lips up like a fish and say "the game of fooball" 5 or 6 times and you will have it down.

That's fair.

Did he make a few good moves? I'd say yes. Did he do a good job? I'd say no.

I also think Jimmy has his "dream team." If things go awry for him this time, where would he turn to next? I get the overall sense that this group will get every chance to prove themselves and we won't see a changing of the guard after a year or two despite what history has shown.

Your first post in this thread is some of the best pack pedaling I’ve seen in years ...

I will say that I learn something new every day. In the "New Uniforms" thread I've found out just how many fashion experts we have on the board. And in terms of Dorsey it seems as though we have many with the education prowess to perform psychological diagnosis.

Its that 0 + 0 = 0 thing bro ...

Or perhaps he's just referring to this..

Dorsey - Williams Link

Oh, the "suggestion".

The Article, the hype, the opinions, the offseason;
Not just this quoted above, but All of it is all blah blah blah to me at this point.

Which way do the Browns go after Depodesta, Berry and Stefanski leave?

I don't quite understand why John Dorsey had to go, even if they had to decide to move on from Freddie Kitchens.
If It came down to Dorsey or Depodesta I'd pick Dorsey so fast peoples heads would be turning, saying
"Where'd he go"
"Where'd WHO go"

I'll agree, nobody ever did a good job as GM of the Browns; if someone would once agree that doing a "good job" wasn't necessary,
what WAS necessary was "not doing a terrible job" and not pulling gimmicks like;

Aww Forget it, it's too hard to explain.
Football Sense!
FOOTBALL SENSE!

probably more likely 5.1 seconds if he's consistent

looking around.

He Hired Daboll to be HC? or the front runner candidate this past coaching search when you were the last job available and experienced candidates were staring you in the face?

I checked out when they hired Stefanski,
I'm always wrong so the Browns might start winning now.

HA!

Glad to see you are still good,

Hue Jackson still sucks.

I'm not sure what your point is. first, I didn't write the article. And second, by the time Hue was fired I think everyone agreed with you.

And I will miss Marvelous Marv down there just a bit above Kentucky. But not Hue here.

Go, Browns!

I don't believe in trading down. Unless you have a proven system in a class organization like New England or Pittsburgh or Baltimore where you can get guys in rounds 3-5 to overachieve and leave in free agency for MORE 3-5 round picks it just sucks. It's a terrible strategy that leaves you with Corey Coleman, David Njoku, Jabrill Peppers etc.

You end up with 2nd or 3rd rate players at a 1st rate price, it's asinine. If you are drafting in the top 10, you need to be striking not wilting. If we think the top player in this draft is going to be ELITE, we should be trying to move up. If money ball see's us move down, which it has shown it will do in the past, I am out. We have too many good players to think we need to be stock piling draft picks.


I said this when the Steelers had Ben talking retirement, they needed to trade up in their closing window, they did not and ended up with Mason Rudolf....gross.