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Harrison was an UDFA. You can never call an UDFA a "miss".

Thwt trade was beautiful... Dorsey did a lot of good... hiring kitchens got him fired...I was hoping thwt would have worked out but unfortunately it didn't.... I still was hoping we'd be able to keep Dorsey... I think overall he did a good job... but he's gone.....

Hiring Kitchens and both of them rejecting moneyball got him fired.

Yeah, i even think if Dorsey would have admitted his mistake with Kitchens and yielded power to Depo he’d still be here

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/some-...fit-per-report/

Two interesting things here:
1. OBJ would mostly be traded due to “personnel fit”
2. The recent trend of teams trading top WRs ... the position seems to be going the way of the RB ... more plug and play


Now, I’m not saying I want him to be or that he will be traded, just found it interesting.

I could see a few teams that are “close” who may be interested: SF, IND, GB

OBJ is not getting traded.

And then we’d have another dysfunctional front office.

I agree. It is my opinion that we should have fired Depo and brought in a new analytics team to work w/Dorsey, while maintaining Highsmith and Wolf.

My guess is that Dorsey would have been adversarial/dismissive towards any data based front office people. He has a traditional way of doing things that had worked well for him and it seems to me that he wouldn’t have liked to go outside that box. Unfortunately I think Dorsey had to go if Kitchens had to go. Any coach that was going to be hired would not have been Dorsey’s guy and the toxic cycle would have continued.

I don't agree w/that, but to each their own.

I remember watching Dorsey on Hard Knocks. He was anything but abrasive. He was actually a very caring guy. The scene of him and a couple of others trying to console Hue after the latter's mother died resonated w/me. I also remember his call for people to treat each other nicely and w/respect after the whole Haley/Hue thing.

I think Depo resented the Dorsey hiring. I think he was upset that analytics had to take a back seat. I actually understand his position. I never thought that the forced marriage of the two arranged by Haslam was a good idea. I also believe that Depo probably made a strong argument to regain power after this season started to go south. I find it hard to believe that Haslam just thought of all the moves on his own.

I remember the day that Dorsey and the Browns parted ways. I was shopping and hadn't heard the news. I received a text that was a 3 person conversation and informed of the news. The first word out of my mouth was: "Depo."

We have different opinions on how things went down. I'm fine w/us disagreeing. At least there isn't the usual exchange of name-calling and insults that occur w/other posters.

Yet 30 other GM's in the NFL didn't manage to make that deal for their back up RB.

Obviously none of us know what was going on - either the dynamics between Dorsey and the analytics crew or individually and what people were thinking and feeling ...
With regard to Dorsey and whether his situation I wonder if it is true that he was advocating to stick with Dorsey and that influenced the way he was viewed? It seems obvious Kitchens was Dorsey's single biggest failure - if he [1] didn't attempt to address the problem during the season [2] wanted to roll with him again ... idk - maybe that's a position you can't survive based on how Freddie performed.

I've said before if we could have kept Dorsey I would have been happy. As it is, it's ancient history and I am looking forward to what this new set up can achieve. With a little luck we'll be very successful and then posters can argue whether it was Berry/DePodesta that brought the success or if it was really a result of Dorsey turning things around

I agree. There were warning sighs from his time spent in KC.

Dorsey is good on the evaluation end, but his people skills are horrible, and a big part of being a GM is managing people.

He will make a good scouting director somewhere.

He is a beast. I'd take him over any of the OT's. I also like Javon Kinlaw out of South Carolina.

Not as big as Brown, but quicker. I think he studs out as a pro as well.

I would take Brown over any of the OT's as well.

I don't think I take Kinlaw over the best OT ... but I'd happily trade back to take him in the teens and get a quality safety or LBer with the extra pick.

I agree with that. I was going to edit saying Kinlaw would come in to play if say Tua is there at 10 and we trade back. I don't think we could go deep in to the teens, but you never know.

And I wouldn't want to do deep in the teens or later unless someone offers up their 2nd this year and 1st or 2nd next year.

I had no idea you knew him so well. Character assassinations come easy for some people when they really have no way of knowing.

Lol neither of us knows anymore than the other ... I personally don’t think he will either, but just posting stuff I come across that pertains to our team

Browns want everyone (especially OBJ) to believe they weren’t discussing a potential OBJ trade

Mike Florio
2 mins ago

During the first 24 hours after Marc Malusis of WFAN reported that the Vikings and the Browns were discussing a potential trade that would have sent receiver Odell Beckham Jr. from Cleveland to Minnesota, the Browns had nothing to say. Since then, they’ve done whatever they can to make sure people (specifically, Beckham) believe there was nothing to it.


“I will just say it was completely false,” Browns chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta told reporters on Thursday regarding the report of OBJ trade talks. “It is frustrating a little bit, obviously. I think it is pretty clear what we are trying to build at this point. We have done an awful lot in free agency. We are excited about what we have a chance to do in the draft, and we are really building around a core of players that we think have a chance to be a championship-caliber core. The idea that we would take away from that core at this moment just does not make a whole lot of sense and is really not something that we are exploring at all. It is completely false.”

OK, fine. It’s completely false. DePodesta said so on Thursday. So why then did someone leak to Adam Schefter of ESPN on Sunday the same stuff that DePodesta said three days ago?

“Source,” proclaimed Schefter on Twitter, “the Browns haven’t had any discussions this off-season about trading WR Odell Beckham Jr., despite all the speculation that Cleveland could move him. ‘That’s the truth,’ said team source.”

Well, if an unnamed team source hiding behind a veil of anonymity says it’s the truth, you can take that to the bank and try to cash it like it’s, well, a check without a signature on it.

(Some may wonder why Schefter agreed to pass along a clear and unequivocal denial from someone who wouldn’t attach his or her name to it. It’s called “playing the game.” And “playing the game” is critical to, for example, getting a head’s up on a transaction five minutes before it’s announced by the team.)

Malusis, for his part, reiterated his claim during his Friday show.


“What I reported did happen,” Malusis said. “I have not blinked. I contacted my source after I first reported it. His response was, ‘Hopefully you did not kill the deal.’ . . .

“By the way, do you really think Paul DePodesta is gonna come out and say, ‘Yes, we were engaged in trade conversations with the Minnesota Vikings’? Or, ‘Yes, we had actively pursued a deal of Odell Beckham Jr.’ or that he was on the trade market? A guy that is as sensitive as Beckham is, and I’ve defended him. But we do know this, Beckham wants to feel the love, from any organization that he’s playing for. . . . Do you think the Browns would ever admit it? . . . If the trade fell through and did not happen do you think Paul DePodesta would ever come out and say . . . that report was true?”

Of course DePodesta wouldn’t admit it, if it were true. And we’ve seen, time and again, teams deny reports like this only to later make the move. And then no one gets upset about it because they understand after the fact that the false denial was strategic and necessary.

So if everyone realizes after the fact that the team was in a must-lie situation, why do so many in the media accept a potential lie at face value before it’s exposed as a lie? Again, it’s called “playing the game,” and the game is played in many ways, whether it’s getting the text message five minutes before the announcement of the Beckham trade is made or receiving cooperation or access from the team that is happy with those who toe the party line, and upset with anyone who had the audacity to point at a pile of something brown and smelly and suggest that it’s quite possibly bullsh-t.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...impression=true

I don’t like Florio. I think he is just trying to stir the pot.

It’s literally his job. Especially with nothing else going on right now.

Sounds like the work of Mike Lombardi.

The same few folks keep repeating the same lies. They have no proof. But, they say the same thing over and over and over again, and sadly, other folks on here believe it.

This board used to forbid those types of rumors, but I get why it's hard to enforce now and I am not blaming the board. I just wish folks would be more accountable and stop trying to deceive others.

That is true. I just think he takes it to another level with this article. Maybe he is trying to stick up for the guy who who started the rumor?

It's his opinion. That's what the board is made up of. . . it's no different than you suggesting the Depo was upset about this or that or resentful of Dorsey ... you don't know that as factual, it's your opinion. Same as it's your opinion that Baker took offense at not being handed the starting role and had a grudge against some of his year 1 coaches including Hue... no facts there, just your opinion. Unless we all need to start adding "imo" after every single thing we write?

That is an opinion?

j/c

Facts are most desirable but if we were not able to post opinions, this site would look like the Sahara Desert...

I agree and please don't insinuate that I am saying to not offer opinions.

However, when I gave my opinion on Dorsey/Depo........I said "I think..." or something like that.

peen, and some others, have been going around here saying these things about Dorsey as if they are factual. He has said Dorsey didn't keep Williams because he GW had a strong personality. He has said others could not warm up to him. He compared him to a gorilla. Those aren't opinions. They are slanderous statements.

And the crazy thing is that we actually have documented comments from guys like Joe Thomas and Bob Wylie that state that the FO, while Sashi, Depo, and Berry were in charge was hard to work with and did things that frustrated coaches and players alike.

I don't know what the real truth is, but I don't think it is fair to say assassinate Dorsey's character like that w/out any proof. I am okay w/someone saying they think that is the case, but to repeatedly leave out the "I think..." part and say things like "his people skills were horrible" is wrong.............you know.......in my opinion.

Yes - that's his opinion. Why don't you ask him instead of calling him a liar?

Nah, I think I will start a new thread in the Draft forum predicting what people will say after the draft instead.

What do you think of this idea?

--Posters will love every pick.
--Posters will hate each pick.
--Posters will make fun of people who don't like each pick? [Does that one ring a bell? LOL]
--A few select posters will concentrate more on what other posters say than on the actual picks? [Does that one ring a bell?]

Good night, 888!

no need for you to post that, as somebody already did. It was myself ...it was a lighthearted fun post. You should try that sometime, I have a hunch that a lot of people would prefer that than endless posts calling others liars left right and center.

Goodnight.

Actually I didn't make that post, I'm on my phone I didn't spot your hateful changes. That wasn't my post at all.

It is my opinion, and I have proof to back it up.

When John came out and said "those guys didn't get real football players".

Sorry, he can feel that way, but you don't say that in a public setting when some of "those guys" are still working for the team.

Poor people and social skills.

Don't forget the scene where Calloway was picked up for weed at 0 dark thirty and didn't tell the team (they found out via news, I believe). I was floored by how chill Dorsey was. If it was me in his seat (first of all, God help us all), I would've skipped everything and gone straight nuclear. My "conversation" would've brought down the ceiling. He was super chill and got his point across. Some would argue Dorsey has a history of being soft on character-issue players.... He did when he drafted Calloway, but not when he chalked up the car-weed thing to being a dumb rookie.


Aside from that, I think people but into these conspiracy theories too much. IMO, there's one person, and only one person, that ISN'T above these backroom power struggle shenanigans... and that's Haslam. I don't think DePo is this nefarious figure in the shadows of Berea hatching his plot via influence of others.

I know you don't believe in the article that was written during Dorsey's exit from KC that talked about parts of his personality that led to his exit, but many do. It's an opinion thing. I think it's most likely that that article was more right than wrong, and a similar thing happened here.

I think I was the first one to post that article. I like to see both sides of a point. I do think that there was a power struggle in KC between Reed and Dorsey. Reed won and some of the things said were ammunition by his people. I think some of those things may have been true and I think some were exaggerated. I think automatically comparing Dorsey to a gorilla is a rather dumb opinion. I think it is born out of bias. I think ignoring the good side of Dorsey while he was here, such as the moment w/Hue is disingenuous. I also think ignoring his reputation around the league is another sign of bias. In case you don't know what I mean about that.........think back to the trades that Dorsey made w/GB, Miami, the Giants, etc. Quotes were distributed about teams would deal w/Dorsey because of how fair and/or honest he was. That's not a gorilla who knocks everyone out of his path.

The guys slamming him are the guys that were always the Sashi guys. They ignore the comments from guys like Joe T. They ignore the comments about the disconnect between the FO and the coaching staff. Hmmmm.........since I am using Wylie as an example, I do have to say he also said that he thought GW was not hired because Dorsey couldn't handle him, or something like that. But Wylie did trash the former FO. Also ignored is the reports that teams started talking about not wanting to trade w/the Sashi/Depo FO because of how difficult they were. Players didn't even want to play for Cleveland when they were in charge. That FO would not even tell the coaching staff who they were going to draft.

I maintain that Haslam forced the marriage of Dorsey and Depo. I think it was doomed to fail from the start. I can see why Depo didn't want to lose power to someone who saw things differently and I can see why Dorsey didn't want to succumb to guys that had failed so miserably in their talent evaluation. I am not really trashing the personalities of either side. I just don't think it was a good mix. It does gall me that people keep trashing Dorsey's character, though.

I hope the new/old guys succeed, but I would have been more comfortable w/Dorsey in charge and them gone. I say this because the difference in talent acquisition is world's apart. That ship has unfortunately sailed and I am supporting Berry. I just don't like the constant trashing of Dorsey's character because I think it is grossly unfair.

Don’t forget ooob .... Reid was in KC because he lost a power struggle in Phili ...

It could have been KJ but Reid was also involved in a power struggle previously ... that has to be taken into account ...

I think owners create power struggles by not insisting on a clear, vertical chain of command, where "level-jumping" is not tolerated.