DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Health care workers block protesters challenging stay-at-home order in Denver

Thank you. And to those at the protests, I need a damn haircut too. Lol
I just don’t want the girl that cuts it as a patient. I’ll wait. I’ll likely have to pull the clippers out at some point. While an inconvenience, it’s still a first world problem. Get over it.

My daughter offered to cut my hair. I said "no problem", but my wife has vetoed it so far.

It won't be long though. Either Sooga uses the clippers with an attachment, or I'll do it myself, gladly going back to bald.

The trumpian way...take it court. Meanwhile people are dying, while these protesters complain causing more death. boo hoo. bro your audience is trump.

Now what you and trump are telling us is, our lives depend on the common sense of others... lol no thank you.

My hair is long, too. Driving me nuts. I've been wearing a do-rag like I'm a biker or maybe an NFL WR or DB. LOL

Anyway, I should have mentioned Jester when I brought up you guys earlier. He is doctor who works w/infectious diseases. It doesn't get much more real than that. And I don't see him complaining, either. He is just doing his damn job!

Folks are also missing a much larger picture.

56,658 committed suicide during the Great Recession 10 years ago due to economic conditions, losing everything they have, being put on the street, etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28625812

how many people do you really think your saving with these lockdown measures? There is a cost in "Human Life" when you shutdown your economy that are just as severe as dying from a virus.

Since this coming Recession is going to make the Great Recession look like a stroll in Disneyland, Mental Health experts are predicting much more dire results in suicides this time around.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/obs...se-in-suicides/

I guess your perfectly ok with 75,000+ people committing suicide, whom if they were allowed to work and provide for themselves their family would otherwise not be killing themselves and would be a useful resource to society by paying taxes and contributing?

Right...its far better to force people to hunker down over some invisible virus and depriving many people whom otherwise may never get sick at all from being able to actually live.

Studies are showing in the small anti-bodies testing that probably 80 times as many people then is being reported have COVID19 anti-bodies in their system which means those people already had it, got over it, and most of em didn't even go to a hospital because it wasn't necessary.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-antibodies-widespread-in-santa-clara.html

I found out yesterday a fella who done some work for me tested positive for COVID19, he is 56 years old, and a smoker to boot. He didn't even know he had it. He only got tested because he was at a hospital at the time that some folks had it, he went though his two week period, and is now fine. All he experienced was a runny nose, and some mild flu symptoms for a few days.

Again, I am not saying COVID19 isn't an issue. For people over 65, immuno-compromised people, folks who had organ transplants, and those with serious pre-existing health conditions are most certainly at risk and those people should be advised to stay home and limit exposure...everyone else should have the choice of taking their chances and working and opening their businesses.

Or the government needs to start paying these people 100% of their wages and health care until they open up the country again...take your pick...if your going to pay these people and hold off all their debt obligations until this nonsense is over then go ahead, lock it down for a year I won't care.

Under current conditions, our government is not doing enough to help people and this is why people are getting upset because things are getting desperate.

Do you live under a rock? Have you not heard what has been going on in Italy?

Also, you gave a parallel between healthcare workers and the guy climbing poles for the electrical utility to restore power in a blizzard... do you go outside and shake the pole/ram it with your car while he's up there? Because that's what you're doing if you have people stop practicing social distancing. You're flooding the hospitals with patients and risk exceeding our hospitals' capacities.

My wife was just furloughed... she works for University of Cinci hospital (in their Marketing group, not in the hospital). They're struggling financially because they're spending money hand over to fist, but very little money is coming in. We know our healthcare system is pretty jacked up here, but when hospitals aren't getting paid during a pandemic... jeez.

You try to sound all concerned about people's mental health, then advocate everyone rush outside and bring Italy/NY to wherever they are. If it wasn't so horrifying, it would be hilarious.

Most people were following the suggestions on social distancing just fine before they became requirements enforced through threat of being arrested. I'm recently 42. For as long as I can remember, in times of national or regional emergency, or tragedy, we've come together to help each other out in a generally understood "common good".

But when you all of a sudden put the threat of being arrested for non-compliance, people are going to naturally wonder why? Especially when you are suddenly forcing people out of work.

Right now these lock downs are not proportional to the problem. That is a fact.

-They haven't determined transmission rates
-They can reasonably claim mitigation has helped, but they can't demonstrate to what extent
-The original basis for these restrictions has been changing constantly and the potential devastation numbers have been falling dramatically.
-Even you guys who support these measures out of fear of contracting the virus, you can't demonstrate how much more in danger you are in just because some people somewhere have a protest.

NOw this isn't to say we shouldn't have guidelines and suggestions, and even lawfully enforced restrictions. It IS to say that when we're at the point where you are blatantly curtailing Constitutional Rights, you need more justification than "well, there's so much we don't know" about a virus that to date shows a relatively low mortality rate, a rate that seems to be dropping week to week.

Most of us here aren't fans of Stop and Frisk because we view the idea of arbitrarily searching someone in a high crime area because they may or may not have a firearm that they may or may not use against someone as not being reasonable.

Stop and Frisk has a stronger legal argument and basis behind it than these Executive Orders.

I've been open to the necessity and legality of these Orders, but I'm still waiting for an explanation. If you provide these people with that explanation, most of them are going to go home.

JC: Eh, from my perspective, i dont see us having a choice about opening the economy.



Where i am, it's just not a possibility. My city in CT with a population of 75,000 has over 1,000 confirmed cases. Many of those are in the hospital or in bad shape right now. In all actuality, we have no idea how many cases we have because getting tested is still so difficult.

I know several people who have died from this Virus. And we've been practicing social distancing for awhile here, as we were near the initial outbreaks. I can only imagine how bad things would be if we weren't.

When the economy starts up again, it's going to have to be slow. We're going to have to make sure that we have the appropriate PPE for workers, and we need testing.



Cause, the reality is, this virus doesn't care about our economy or anyone's job. It doesn't care about bills or anything. It just makes people sick. And it's very effective at it. And if the healthcare system gets overrun because we don't have a good plan in place to get people working, then we'll be back in the same freakin boat all over again




And this is one of the most stupidest comments i've ever read. (among some other ones in later posts)

You think they have it easy? Come volunteer at my local hospital bud. Some have it easier than others right now, healthcare workers are DEFINITELY not at the top of the list.

Have some class for the people out there trying to save lives and stomp this virus out

This is totally false in terms of people keeping social distancing. I guess you must not have had to go to a Walmart or to buy groceries during that time.



No it is not "a fact". It is your belief. We are closing in on 43,000 deaths. Can you imagine how many more deaths there would be if things hadn't been shut down? What death count is acceptable to you. 100,000, 200,000?



I see you have tried to blur the lines between bravery and stupidity. Common sense and caution is not fear. Blindly risking the life of possibly hundreds of thousands of people is most certainly stupidity.



You don't actually follow this much do you? The rate is dropping week to week in SOME places. It's increasing in others. In Nashville as just one example. testing increased by 11% over the past week. Cases increased 19%. The death count is rising, not decreasing. Many other cities and areas are the same.



No, it really doesn't.



The infection rate is available. The death count is available. The threat to your family and loved ones is obvious.

Do yourself a favor and look at the guidelines the White House put out. It gives direct parameters for opening things up in phases. In my own state they plan to start opening things up starting Friday and expanding in Monday. But even they have enough common sense, (and here they don't have a lot in terms of government), to exclude certain parts of the state.

Even the White House guidelines understand that you can just open things up and get "back to normal". That not everywhere will qualify to do so.

But i can understand why you choose your words they way you do. If you can convince people that being smart is fear, you think that gives you some sort of posturing advantage. It doesn't. It just goes to show how far the lines have been blurred between bravery and stupidity.

You've replied with a whole lot of nothing.

Yes I've been to Walmart and several grocery stores many times since the beginning (post TP panic). Every where I went people were giving each other space. We haven't responded to a single call about people fighting or causing a ruckus at any of those places.

Unless you can show the proportionality of the response to the numbers, I indeed stated a fact. You can't make a counter claim telling me to "imagine". BTW, what death count is acceptable to you? Because it seems to me there will be blood on someone's hands no matter which route we go. Will you admit here and now that the increase in suicides and OD's is an acceptable cost of doing business your way?

And again, you still can't articulate how any what anyone else is doing is an actual threat to you. If we were simply debating on the "CDC suggestions and voluntary compliance" level, your case would be sufficient. We wouldn't even disagree. But now you're entering the realm of literally placing people in jail and curtailing Constitutional Rights. The standard is much higher. You guys would be apoplectic if the cops started enforcing any other law based on your reasoning.

Even you admit that in some areas the rate is dropping. So there's no good reason for the restrictions in those areas to not reflect that.

Stop and Frisk: "no, it really doesn't"? Chicago... massive gang related gun violence, even more so when you realize how largely geographically contained to certain parts of the city. You mean to tell me that these COVID 19 restrictions have more legal grounds (which I'm still waiting for you or anyone else to explain) than a cop rolling by a corner known for open air drug dealing, stopping an obvious gang member as evidenced by their dress, tats, and flashing handsigns, searching him and likey finding heroin and/or a gun which given that area "common sense" says has a high probability of being used to hurt someone?

And finally.. your accusation of trying to gain a posturing advantage... what posture is that? Being concerned about Constitutional Rights? Because I know and you should know that any legal framework laid out here if left unchecked will be used and abused in some other issue?

Right now the ONLY justification you have is that you're only looking out for your own hide and you expect everyone else to make sacrifices in order to protect your hide. I don't see how that's any less selfish or uncaring than someone who is willing to exercise precautions but needs to get back to earning a living.

BTW, philosophically the only difference between being brave and being stupid is whether or not your endeavor was a success.

Think Freddie Kitchens going for it on 4th and goal at the 3yrd line...

If, and I say IF, some of the new studies postulating that the number of asymptomatic cases is rather quite high, then all this "caution" and the trashing of the economy is going to look pretty stupid.

I give what I get.



Before or after the restrictions were put in place? Because your claim was that people were social distancing just fine BEFORE the orders were in place.



No, first a fact must be established. You made a claim. Those are two different things. When you make a claim and then state someone must show facts to dispute your claims, well. Come on man!



Can you show me the facts on how those have increased or is this yet another claim?



Once again, do you have a degree in constitutional law? How many people have been jailed over this? And stop pretending that other laws aren't purely arbitrary.



I'm all for things to be opened up under the guidelines the CDC has set. That would only be in areas that meet those guidelines. I'm not for locking things down forever.



Let's not pretend that was the way it was used. In some cases? yes. But it was abused to a great degree and you know it.



Yes, your posturing issue. I made it quite clear what I was referring to. That anyone who feels we should be in quarantine or have this litigated is "scared". You knew exactly what I meant and are dodging it like the plague. Oh that's right, you don't think we should take every measure we can to dodge a plague.



And there it is. The great lie. I knew you would get your feathers ruffled enough to resort to this kind of stupid BS.

This is about the elderly. The gandpas and grandmas. Those who have pre existing conditions. about those more vulnerable in our society. You know, the very people you are paid to protect and serve? the people in this nation we were taught to respect? You remember don't you? "Respect your elders".

You have resorted to trying to undermine the character of anyone who disagrees with you by calling them "scared" and "selfish". You show rampant disregard for the weakest and elderly in our society who need our support the most. The weakest among us of whom you are paid to protect and serve.

Then you wonder why people don't trust law enforcement.

Trying to make excuses for undermining the character of anyone who disagrees with you is all the evidence anyone needs as to why you don't have a clue.

My "THEY HAVE IT EASY THEY ARE STILL GETTING A PAYCHECK COMMENT" Was made out of passion ok....unlike others I won't delete because i'll own it.

Was it bad taste? sure it was, but its equally bad taste to be callous towards people who will be on the street in a few weeks with little kids.

both sides of this argument have merit. We are towing a very fine line here, I hope this stuff ends soon...or we are going to be in trouble in more ways than one...this virus will be the least of our worries.

I'll be waiting for anyone to refute this graph.

Learn from history.



----------------------
If you're angry about "but no work!", take it up with the government. It's not like other government across the world aren't finding ways to help their citizens...

And to the "YOU WANT VENUZUELA SOCIALISM YOU COMMIE!!!!!" crowd, we can talk when our government stops with corporate welfare that benefits corporations in times of crisis. These corporations are still laying off employees.

So I'll echo Portland and Vers, get bent to all of you who want to lift restrictions without treatment methods.

I understand. I hope for the best for you.

This is going to be an issue for a very large number of folks, and hopefully actual solutions can be brought forth soon for folks in your predicament



Right here, I disagree. The measures we’re stuck taking have to be taken or this virus will get far far worse. And then we’ll be forced into the same predicament again, with more infections and deaths. We’re stuck with bad and worse

What we need is a plan.

As a whole I’m so disappointed in our federal government right now.

We need testing, we need proper PPE, we need to be able to handle a higher capacity of cases. Then we can start getting back to work. But, that’s JMHO (and from the perspective of someone whose area has been hit hard already).

1. I don't see it as a false analogy (obviously). Being out and about and not doing what the medical experts are saying we should (social distancing, etc) means more people getting sick all at once, more people in the hospital. That makes it harder for healthcare workers to do their job (when they're swamped).

2. You're not wrong here. The problem is with execution. The stay-at-home order is in place, in large part, because us Americans have a very hard time doing what we're told. That's not always a bad thing, but in this case it is. Germany is beginning to open back up, and Korea never really fully shut down. That's in large part because of their discipline and willingness to follow direction when it's important. I think a LOT of people (the general population, not getting into our leaders here) failed to grasp how important this is.
If it were up to me, I'd love to put more responsibility/accountability on the states and especially the individual... but I think we've demonstrated that we were/are not able to successfully handle that.

3. I might not be taking mental health seriously, but I just don't put it on the same level of importance as our population's physical health (and the virus' effect).

The vast majority of the population has done a poor job of practicing social distancing. I think a big part of this is because we haven't had to go through this in our lives. We're learning how to deal with this, so we should do better next time.

Until then, it makes sense to be more conservative.

I work at a grocery store. I have to tell at least one half of all my customers to back up from me and give me some space when I come over to solve whatever the F they screwed up on the self checkout. 1/2 of those people either get pished off about that and get outraged that their entitled ashes need to stand back or they start arguing about a freaking .20 cent coupon for their cottage cheese.

The other half of these people have a brain and common courtesy.. they back up, be patient while I work thru their problem and thank me. I've had customers give me gift cards, cash and sincere thank yous.

I got up this morning before work and went to the grocery store when it first opened. For the most part people were really good about social distancing or being courteous in the isles. I was also glad to see most people, 90%+, wearing a mask of some sort. The last time I shopped, 18 days ago, I was only one of a very small handful, maybe only two others, wearing one. I got a couple of ‘looks’ from some folks. I’d say now the ones getting the looks are those not wearing masks.

What it comes down to is we’re all in this together. We all need to pull from the same end of the rope or we’re not getting through this without a lot of unnecessary death.

I was at the grocery store the other day for the first time in awhile. Most folks are complying, but there are a handful of folks who are infuriating. This one lady kept walking into my space. She continually went the wrong way when traveling the aisles. There were at least a half-dozen others traveling the wrong way and coming into close contact w/others. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

And again, most folks were following the guidelines. It's always a few idiots that ruin it for others. I can't stand selfish people!!!

On another note, I can sympathize w/the financial and/or economic woes. They are devastating. We don't want to put citizens and companies in those positions.

My bottom line is this. Folks can recover from financial losses. They can even overcome financial ruin. But, you can't overcome death. It is my opinion that we do the best we can to keep as many of us alive as possible.

I do want to add this............while I get the financial concerns, I do not have any sympathy for those who are too freaking selfish to follow the guidelines because they want to live their lives like they used to. They want to go to the beach. Go out to eat. Congregate. Suck it up! And make the best of the situation.

To be clear.........I am not combining the financial devastated w/the selfish folks. But, there are people protesting from both groups.

Thats the truth. I was one of the first employees to wear a mask.. no customers. Now, almost everyone is wearing a mask

I'm just quoting these comments in case any readers may have missed them the first time.

I have yet to hear any healthcare worker echo the sentiments of your sister. I can assure you that the opinion you shared would be coming from the vast minority of healthcare workers.

As others have mentioned, I understand the frustration and the pain this is causing people whose livelihoods are being affected. You can't just pull the rug out from under so many people and offer them a thousand dollars or so for them to get by. It's a slap in the face. All while you spend most of your efforts bailing out businesses. The GOP better be careful here, as they are going to lose a landslide of votes if this practice keeps up. They only cry about the deficit when it comes to helping people, not businesses.

The reason for social distancing was to slow the infection rate to make sure healthcare facilities do not get overwhelmed. This still needs to be the priority.

Believe me, you do not want that to happen. I'll repeat, you do NOT want that to happen here. It will be catastrophic to so many.

When I started work this morning, we had one patient in our ER, and 2 at our sister hospital. It's been in the single digits every day. Usually there are anywhere from 20-40 patients in the morning and increasing as the day goes on. I just can't get over this big of a drop.

I really want to learn something here... so I'm asking you to provide context to your post, quoted here above.

What do these numbers mean, from your 'boots on the ground' POV?

What do you want us to get from your post?

I can only think that people are staying away. Those that might have gone for more minor things are staying home and riding it out. Probably like they should have anyway. But in the past people show up at ERs with all kinds of weird minor stuff. Now it’s better to deal with that minor injury or illness at home than risk COVID at the hospital. Sadly it also means that some folks are having bigger issues, cardiac and such, and ignoring them out of fear of catching COVID at the hospital.

Most won't see it as such, but that was a great post.

What it means is most hospitals, especially not in New York City, are not over run and actually have decreased volumes.... my hospital is the same.... emergency center has seen far fewer patients because people,are only coming in if they really need to (which should be how it always should be).... I think most areas/hospitals can handle opening back up

There are probably fewer actual emergencies since people are sitting at home and not out and about.

The Extremists And Grifters Behind Many Of The Anti-Lockdown Protests

Right-wing rallies across the country have demanded governors reopen businesses during a deadly pandemic.

Many of the right-wing protests against state stay-at-home orders sweeping the nation have been organized or attended by white nationalists, conspiracy theorists, anti-government militias, members of a neo-fascist street gang, and other assorted extremists and scam artists, a HuffPost analysis shows.

The protests, largely coordinated on Facebook, have seen crowds of hundreds descend upon state and city government buildings, where participants flagrantly flout social distancing guidelines to demand that their respective governors reopen state businesses during a deadly pandemic.

Images of these often heavily armed protesters, screaming at health care workers and blocking ambulances from reaching hospitals, have gone viral, shocking a country where polls show a large majority support measures to slow the spread of COVID-19, which has already killed over 45,000 people in this country.

Yet the events — which present a clear danger to communities across the U.S., risking the further spread of a virus — have been promoted extensively by Fox News. On Friday, immediately after a Fox segment sympathetic to the rallies, the president tweeted out his support for the protesters.

“LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” “LIBERATE VIRGINIA,” Trump wrote in a tweet-storm, directly contradicting the advice of the medical experts on his own COVID-19 task force.

It’s easy to see why footage of the protests might excite the president. They bear a striking resemblance, after all, to his own fascist campaign rallies, with attendees who are almost uniformly white, and who display a deep devotion to the president, donning red MAGA hats and waving Trump 2020 flags.

And like Trump’s rallies, the anti-shutdown protests are teeming with right-wing extremists.

Here’s a brief look at some of the figures who have either organized or attended these events over the last week.

The White Nationalists

A rally Monday in Augusta, the state capital of Maine, was organized in part by Larry Lockman, a white nationalist former state lawmaker who in 2017 warned that proposed immigrant welcome centers were tantamount to a “war on whites.”

According to Maine-based journalist Nathan Bernard, Lockman helped coordinate Monday’s anti-shutdown event on the “Mainers Against Excessive Quarantine” Facebook page, where he encouraged attendees to show up to the rally wearing MAGA gear. “This is about the loss of our civil rights and its impact on our businesses and religion,” he wrote in one post.

Bernard reported seeing Lockman coordinating a group of unmasked protesters at the rally Monday.



In Columbus, Ohio, two men were photographed at an anti-shutdown protest holding up an anti-Semitic sign depicting Jews as rats, calling them “the real plague.” The Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism believes one of the men belongs to the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement.

According to the ADL, this individual was photographed at a 2019 white power rally with Timothy Wilson, who was killed by federal agents last month during an attempted arrest over his alleged plot to bomb a Missouri hospital during the pandemic in order to attract attention to his white supremacist views.

Proud Boys, ‘Patriots,’ And Militias, Oh My

A “Reopen Florida” protest scheduled for this weekend in Miami was organized by a leader of the neo-fascist street gang The Proud Boys, the Miami New Times reported this week.

Enrique Tarrio, a longtime Proud Boy, admitted to the New Times that he’d organized the rally, which he’s advertised as being “against the Democrat-driven unconstitutional lockdown.”

Members of the Proud Boys — a Southern Poverty Law Center-designated hate group originally founded by bigot Gavin McInnes — have deep ties to a host of white nationalist and militia groups, and are best known for violently attacking their political opponents.

Proud Boys have also been spotted at anti-shutdown protests in Colorado, Nevada, Ohio and Michigan. At the rally in Lansing, Michigan, Proud Boys were allegedly among the attendees blocking ambulances from being able to reach a hospital.

Also in Michigan — as noted by reporter Jason Wilson in The Guardian — were members of the Michigan Liberty Militia, whose Facebook page Wilson notes “features pictures of firearms, warnings of civil war, celebrations of Norse paganism and memes ultimately sourced from white nationalist groups like Patriot Front.”



An April 19 rally in Olympia, Washington, was well-attended by other anti-government militia groups, including the Oathkeepers and Three Percenters, whose members have been implicated in multiple anti-Muslim terror plots in recent years.

Matt Marshall, leader of a state chapter of the Three Percenters, encouraged attendees ahead of the Olympia rally to wear Hawaiian shirts, a reference to the “Big Luau,” which is itself code for the “boogaloo,” a term used in white supremacist, militia and far-right circles to describe the bloody civil war they predict — and often hope — is coming to America.

According to the ADL, anti-shutdown protesters in Tennessee and New Hampshire have been spotted holding up signs invoking the boogaloo. “Liberty or Boogaloo,” the signs have said, and “Join my boog squad.”

In San Diego, an anti-shutdown protest this past Saturday was organized by Roger Ogden, who has previously held a series of far-right rallies in the city in coordination with the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters.

“We do not believe that the COVID-19 bug represents such an immediate danger to others that constitutional rights should be curtailed,” Ogden told reporters at the San Diego rally, downplaying the virus as less severe than the flu. (COVID-19 is thought to be 10 times more deadly than the flu.)

And in Idaho, rally scheduled for this Friday outside the state capital building in Boise is being advertised by Diego Rodriguez, a pastor and former Republican candidate for the state senate.

Rodriguez recently held an Easter Sunday church service — in defiance of social distancing orders in the state — with Ammon Bundy, who led the militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016.

The Conspiracy Theorists

Anti-vaccination extremists, a mainstay of Trump rallies and other far-right events in recent years, have been seen at multiple anti-shutdown protests.

An April 14 rally in Raleigh, North Carolina, was organized in part by an anti-vaccination activist named Ashley Smith.

“I am against mandatory vaccination,” Smith said in an email to The News & Observer. “That is a personal right and as a sovereign citizen I have the right to choose what medical procedures I and my children receive. Pandemic status/state of emergency doesn’t change that.”

Public health experts fear the anti-vaxx movement could, once a COVID-19 vaccine is developed, undermine a national inoculation program.

Owen Shroyer, a host on the conspiracy website Infowars, held a “You Can’t Close America” rally in the Texas state capitol last weekend, attracting hundreds of attendees.

When Infowars founder Alex Jones arrived with a bullhorn, fans swarmed around him and jostled to shake his hand as Jones declared that the pandemic — which has already killed over 500 people in Texas — is a hoax.

The Scam Artists

Investigations by The Washington Post and NBC News revealed that some of the largest Facebook groups organizing protests across the country were all founded by four brothers with a history exploiting far-right causes to rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The Dorr brothers — Chris, Ben, Aaron and Matthew — were the founders or administrators of the groups New Yorkers Against Excessive Quarantine, Minnesotans Against Excessive Quarantine, Ohioans Against Excessive Quarantine, Pennsylvanians Against Excessive Quarantine and Wisconsinites Against Excessive Quarantine.

According to NBC News, the groups started or administered by the brothers, which have amassed some 200,000 members, direct people to websites owned by the Dorrs, which then directs people to register their names and addresses, or to sign up as dues-paying members for organizations promoting pro-gun, anti-abortion, or pro-Trump causes.



But Republicans who have previously crossed paths with the Dorr brothers warn that such fundraisers have little to do with political organizing and more to do with lining the Dorrs’ pockets.

Minnesota’s Senate Republican Caucus earlier this year warned voters about these Dorr “scams.”

And Minnesota Citizens Concerned For Life, a prominent anti-abortion group, states on its website that the “Dorr brothers are established scam artists.”

“Nothing they say can be believed,” the website says, “and giving them your money will not advance the pro-life cause in any way.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/extremists-anti-shutdown-protests_n_5ea057f6c5b6b2e5b83b55cd

I was supporting the post above that said there was a 70% drop in ER visits. I agree with Portland. People are staying away for the reasons he gave, but I am just shocked at the numbers. I don't think anyone saw this coming....a 70% drop in ER admits.

There are people with serious medical issues fearful of stepping foot into a hospital, feeling that the risk of acquiring an infection outweighs the risk of getting treatment. It's a delicate issue, as most of the people in this category, (choosing to stay home vs. going to the ED), have cardiac and resipiratory issues...which puts them at a high risk for serious complications from a COVID-19 infection. People with immediate life threatening issues (injuries, stroke, heart attack) and severe COVID symptoms are who we are seeing in the ER's now.

It would be interesting to see if physicians are treating people at home who they'd normally send to an ER.

What I find interesting is the drop in number of mentally ill patients coming to the ER. You have to wonder if the hormonal changes from fear of the virus is somehow keeping their symptoms at bay.

Lastly, I think the drop is an indicator of the extent of the malingering problem...patients using the ER for frivolous and self serving issues. That is a whole 'nother issue for a seperate discussion.

thanks for the reply

and thanks to others who added their thoughts.

White Nationalists
Proud Boys
Oathkeepers
Three Percenters
The Conspiracy Theorists

This is how the herd gets culled.
The slow ones and the dumb ones.
They should hug, hold hands, and do some deep soul-kissing while they are at it. The sooner they're gone, the sooner the rest of us will be better off.

Darwin always wins.

Antifa
Black Separatists

....

Feel free to add them to the list. I've no use for them, either.

That's why I like you.