DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus ‘trump the virus” Covid 19-Continued

So what's your plan for China? You haven't addressed this yet.

One plan might be "Not go to war with China" ? Maybe.

Recieved this via email from my father in-law from England:

If Trump was captain of the Titanic

> There isn’t any iceberg
>
> It’s a fake iceberg
>
> There was an iceberg but it’s in a totally different ocean
>
> People say it’s the biggest iceberg
>
> The iceberg is in this ocean but it will melt very soon
>
> There is an iceberg but we didn’t hit the iceberg
>
> We hit the iceberg, but the damage will be repaired very shortly
>
> I knew from the beginning there was an iceberg, long before people called it
> an iceberg
>
> The iceberg is a Chinese iceberg
>
> We are taking on water but every passenger who wants a lifeboat can get a
> lifeboat, and they are beautiful lifeboats
>
> Look, passengers need to ask nicely for the lifeboats if they want them
>
> We don’t have any lifeboats, we're not a lifeboat distributor
>
> Passengers should have planned for icebergs and brought their own lifeboats
>
> I really don’t think we need that many lifeboats
>
> We have lifeboats and they’re supposed to be our lifeboats, not the
> passengers' lifeboats
>
> The lifeboats were left on shore by the last captain of this ship
>
> Nobody could have foreseen the iceberg
>
> I’m an expert on icebergs
>
> I’ve got lots of friends who deal with icebergs, some of the best, really good
> ice people who know ice
>
> Summer will come and the iceberg will disappear, it will go away, like magic

I think it's really valuable to understand where people are coming from when they present articles on here. Being reminded that you're an officer responsible for somehow enforcing this order, along with you saying you're very unsure about enforcement, makes your earlier arguments much more clear and relatable. I can definitely empathize with what you're saying.

I think the big part is that there is a lot we don't know and a lot of protocols that we're not familiar with that force us to act in a much more conservative/risk-averse way than we'd like. I've said this multiple times, but I sincerely hope that we (Federal gov't all the way down to local gov't and individual and everyone in between) takes a look at this whole thing once it's over, and then looks at countries such as Germany and South Korea, and tries to figure out how we can each do better.

I guess my main reply would be probably far more basic than you may be looking for.

As of yet I haven't see anyone actually "taken to jail" for breaking the virus protocol. I have seen people threatened with fines and tickets have most likely been given out.

And I guess I can understand your concerns regarding corruption and not always trusting your superiors. But does that also mean you have little to no faith in the court system? If you don't trust the court system then it would appear you don't trust any part of the legal system except the rank and file police officers.

So what I'm saying is I believe the court system is the bottom line in all of this. It would be up to them to judge whether these laws should and are enforced.

As with you, I agree that DUI checkpoints are wrong due to the very issues you pointed out. No probable cause. But the fact is they are considered legal. But I guess I'm just a little surprised when you bring up such extreme measures. The reason why I say that id that I haven't seen anyone, anywhere putting up "coronavirus checkpoints" or making "arrest standard procedure" as it pertains to the virus.

I mean if you're speaking in hypothetical terms that's fine, but I think the points you are trying to make are simply about things that currently do not exist. If and when things ever get to that point we may end up agreeing more than you think we might.

I wish you and your entire family the best in these trying times.

If it's natural selection..

And 83% of the deaths are in states with democrat governors...

And 75% of the deaths are in states that voted for Hillary...

which herd is being thinned?

As of right now it's the herd in nursing homes, VA homes, healthcare workers, and essential employees. You know, those folks.

I guess it does sound better calling them essential employees. Because calling them sacrificial lambs sounds so much worse.

In Testing
In producing ventilators
etc...

Just remember Pit, we are all in this together.

Unless you disagree with me, then you want children to die.

We are finally just beginning to catch up with several other nations in per capita testing. Raw numbers can be very deceiving.

Children are dying. I did however reference who is in the "herd".

And we all certainly "should be in this together". But as is evidenced, that's certainly not the case.

See - more proof - FACTS DON'T MATTER

USA - Testing per 1M population: 40th ... FORTY.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Worldometers is obviously a George Soros funded propaganda outfit.

WHITE HOUSE

Kudlow: Businesses shouldn't be held liable for employees and customers getting coronavirus
The White House economic adviser said May will be a “transition month" for the reopening of the economy.

Larry Kudlow
White House chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow. | Manuel Balce Ceneta/AP Photo

By MYAH WARD

04/22/2020 01:07 PM EDT


White House Economic Adviser Larry Kudlow on Wednesday said that businesses should not be held responsible for employees or customers getting sick as governors move to reopen state economies.

Kudlow was optimistic about reopening the economy, adding that the U.S. “may be coming down the homestretch.” He said May will be a “transition month,” and that the U.S. will see a phased economic reopening across the country. And as these businesses begin to open up, Kudlow said he’s not worried about safety measures slipping if companies aren't held liable, suggesting that states would do “a very good job” monitoring the businesses.



“Businesses, particularly small businesses that don’t have massive resources, should not be held liable — should not be held to trial lawyers putting on false lawsuits that will probably be thrown out of court,” Kudlow told CNBC. “You have to give the businesses some confidence here that if something happens, and it may not be their fault — I mean, the disease is an infectious disease.”


Kudlow continued: “If something happens, you can’t take them out of business. You can’t throw big lawsuits at them. And I think liability reforms and safeguards are going to be very important part of this. Some of this we can do probably on a regulatory basis. Part of it may require some additional legislation. But that’s a very important point here. Someone has to defend the businesses.”

Kudlow’s comments come after President Donald Trump on Monday said the White House was looking at ways to rid companies of liability, shielding them from lawsuits and other legal problems that could emerge if coronavirus affects employees and customers.

“We just don’t want that because we want the companies to open and to open strong,” Trump said during the press briefing. “We just don’t want that because we want the companies to open and to open strong. But I’ll get you a legal opinion on that."

McConnell says he favors allowing states to declare bankruptcy
Steven T. Dennis and William Selway 8 hrs ago
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Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Wednesday he favors allowing states struggling with high public employee pension costs amid the burdens of the pandemic response to declare bankruptcy rather than giving them a federal bailout.

Mitch McConnell© Win McNamee Mitch McConnell
“I would certainly be in favor of allowing states to use the bankruptcy route,” he said Wednesday in a response to a question on the syndicated Hugh Hewitt radio show. “It’s saved some cities, and there’s no good reason for it not to be available.”


The host cited California, Illinois and Connecticut as states that had given too much to public employee unions, and McConnell said he was reluctant to take on more debt for any rescue.

“You raised yourself the important issue of what states have done, many of them have done to themselves with their pension programs,” he said. “There’s not going to be any desire on the Republican side to bail out state pensions by borrowing money from future generations.”

His statements set up a conflict with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who said on Bloomberg Television Wednesday a “major package” of aid for state and local government will be in the next stimulus legislation considered by Congress.

McConnell may also find himself in conflict with President Donald Trump. The president said Tuesday after meeting with New York Governor Andrew Cuomo that states will need assistance. “And I think most Republicans agree too, and Democrats,” Trump said. “And that’s part of phase four.”

McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, noted he blocked additional state and local aid in the latest relief package, which passed the Senate Tuesday and is set for a vote Thursday in the House.

“I said yesterday we’re going to push the pause button here, because I think this whole business of additional assistance for state and local governments needs to be thoroughly evaluated,” McConnell added.

Related video: US companies face bankruptcy after crash (provided by Al Jazeera)



The idea of allowing states to file for bankruptcy was raised in the wake of the last recession. It drew widespread disdain from Wall Street investors, public employee unions and both Republican and Democratic governors, who said it would unsettle the bond market and cause even the most fiscally sound states to face higher interest rates because of the risk the debt could be wiped out in court.

It was also criticized by U.S. lawmakers of both parties during a House hearing that was convened to discuss it in 2011 and was swiftly dropped.

Read More: Fed’s Muni Facility Leaves States Charting Tricky Path to Access

The National Governors Association has said states and municipalities will need at least $500 billion in aid to deal with the crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic as tax revenue falls and demands for resources escalate.

McConnell said there should be a “fulsome” discussion among all Republican senators on whether and how to send more aid to state and local governments and what that money should be spent on.

That will be one of the focuses for the next round of stimulus spending that Congress will be taking up, and McConnell’s reluctance signals that negotiation could be the most difficult one so far. President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he expected aid to state and local governments would be part of that.

No state has defaulted on its debts since the Great Depression and even after the last recession only a handful of cities went bankrupt, since governments have broad ability to raise taxes.

The current economic contraction may leave states facing an even worse fiscal crisis than they did a decade ago, which has prompted growing calls from the nation’s states and cites for Congress to provide aid to help them make up for the taxes lost by the nationwide shutdown. Governors have requested $500 billion and cities and counties $250 billion.

The bond market, however, doesn’t appear to be pricing in much risk of defaults. While prices tumbled during a panicked sell-off last month, they’ve since rebounded, with returns roughly flat for the year.

I agree. It's "act of God".
You just can't open the floodgates for all the ambulance chasers that will start with the class-action junk as soon as they can.

It is not an act of God. It is an Act of Mankind.

Man poking his nose in places it doesn't belong in the name of greed is a huge concern in the outbreak and spreading of infectious diseases. No amount of rhetoric will deny that fact.

You left out prisons

Sadly, that's exactly how he handles everything...

Look, passengers need to ask nicely for the lifeboats if they want them

I think this was my favorite line in this parody. I don't blame Trump for the virus, I think he could have listened to experts sooner and it would have made a small difference and helped some segments of the population accept the self quarantine etc .... but we were in for a hell of a crisis regardless. What I do blame Trump for is the moronic statements and constant changing narrative and the blaming of anyone and everyone for anything he can ... none of which is what real leaders do.

j/c:

Dr. Fauci Warned In 2017 Of ‘Surprise Outbreak’ During Trump Administration

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fauci-warned-of-trump-pandemic-2017_n_5e8a0548c5b6e7d76c65c8a4

Per capita data is also very deceiving and is a pointless statistic when 75% of the deaths are from 7 states that only make up 22% of the population.

The bottom half (25 states) in death total account for 21.2% of the population but only 3.7% of the deaths. But in per capita testing, NOT running massive testing in those states hurts the US.

That's why it's very difficult to create comparisons with this.. recently I posted about a comparison of the US vs 6 Euro countries (Italy, Spain, France, Germany, UK, Switzerland).. I picked those 6 because they are similar to ours and because the combined population about equals the US.. the numbers are pretty similar in all respects but they have about twice as many deaths.. the main difference is that the population density of the US in total is about 36 people per KM2 while for those 6 countries combined, the population density is about 168 people per KM2.

This thing thrives in areas of high population density, it doesn't seem to thrive by people going to the grocery store. IF NYC metro area was inline with other major US metropolitan areas, we would have at least 12-15,000 fewer deaths. That's not me casting blame or throwing shade, it's just a fact. And it needs to be a major focus of study when this is all said and done. What happened in San Fran, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, etc that was different than what happened in NYC? I've read some articles on it but they are all still pretty speculative at this point and there doesn't seem to be a consensus.

We should all quarantine for 5 years so this passes. Don't worry, all our jobs will be there.

Well 5 years would be overkill but a few more months wouldn't be. I actually have no issue with them opening things up as long as people are cautious and respectful to others... that will never happen.

I agree with everything you just wrote....Perfect

These changing narratives are his way of sending up trial balloons to see what's going to fly. Dumb way to do things especially as often as he does it.

I feel most people would be cautious and respectful to others. I do think there may be problems in the most dense cities like NYC that would need a little more caution. But most cities can re-open.

I'd say about 25% of the people I see don't seem to believe or be aware that it's even a threat. And a little less than half still aren't wearing masks out in public.

Wearing a mask does not help. Even if it did, they are impossible to come by.

I won't dismiss that statistics don't tell the entire story. But when your president is out there bragging about "doing the most testing", I think adding some context acts to back up your theory that statistics can be deceiving.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/nearly-al...sue-study-finds

Interesting article.

The spit spray coming from your mouth when you talk is there virus or not. The mask stops that much. It won't protect you as much as it will others but if everybody wears them it cuts down on transmission. And if you can't buy them, you can wear a bandana or other cloth mask, anything helps.

Actually their claim is that if you have the virus a mask helps stop you from spreading it. Their claim is also that wearing that same mask won't keep you from getting it.

According to these claims these masks are only "one way masks". Sort of like a roach motel for coronavirus. This makes zero sense to me. So we have all of our medical workers wearing masks not so they won't get the virus from their patients, but to stop from giving it to their patients who already have it?

Yeah, that makes sense.

The key part here is the asymptomatic carrier. You might have it and be spreading your germies and not realize it. Disciplined mask-wearing is one of the things (along with hand-washing, distancing and other upgraded "manners") that will help society get back to something resembling normal prior to vaccines/treatments becoming available.

Besides, wearing a mask really isn't a big deal. Some people act like it's this horrible ask. Just make/buy a fabric one (or two) so you can wash/reuse, and go about your day. I got several compliments on my Snoopy mask at the grocery store last night.

Thanks. I have many friends in the medical field - mostly nurses, but paramedics and doctors also, that have posted that exact same post.

Gov. J.B. Pritzker extends ‘modified’ Illinois stay-at-home order through May 30

Gov. J.B. Pritzker announced Thursday he will extend a statewide stay-at-home order through May 30, with modifications beginning May 1 that will require people to wear a mask or face covering in most public settings, allow certain businesses to reopen with distancing precautions and start a phased-reopening of outdoor recreation including state parks.

Pritzker, flanked by experts at his daily briefing on Thursday, pointed to models that show if the order was lifted, it would result in a “second wave” of COVID-19 infections, hospitalizations and deaths.

“The projections are clear: if we lifted the stay-at-home order tomorrow, we would see our deaths per day shoot into the thousands by the end of May, and that would last well into the summer. Our hospitals would be full and very sick people would have nowhere to go," Pritzker said. "People who otherwise might have won their fight against COVID would die, because we wouldn’t be able to help them through. No amount of political pressure would ever make me allow such a scenario for our state.”

The modified order will take effect May 1, and require anyone over 2 years old to wear a mask or some other sort of face covering while in a public place where they are unable to maintain the recommended six feet of distance from others.

Certain elective surgeries for non-life threatening conditions that have been on hold will be able to move forward, under the new rules that take effect next month. Illinois Department of Public Health Director Dr. Ngozi Ezike said Thursday the department will roll out more details in the coming days, but facilities performing those procedures will be required to have the necessary personal protective equipment, enough space for patients infected with COVID-19 and the ability to test elective-surgery patients to ensure they don’t have the illness.

Cancellations of elective surgeries to ensure there was enough room for COVID-19 patients during the public health crisis has both left patients waiting and hit hard hospitals’ bottom lines.

Illinoisans have been living under a statewide stay-at-home order since March 21, and the current directive was due to expire April 30. The modified order that takes effect May 1 relaxes some restrictions, allowing some businesses to reopen or resume operations, with distancing precautions in place.

Garden centers, greenhouses and nurseries will be allowed to reopen as essential businesses with requirements for staff and customers to wear face coverings and social-distancing measures in place.

Animal grooming services can also reopen May 1, and retail stores that are not designated as essential businesses under the current order will also be able to start taking orders by phone and online for pick-up and delivery.

There will also be a phased-in reopening of state parks.

Officials reported 1,826 new known cases on Thursday. There have now been 36,934 cases since the start of the outbreak. With 123 more fatalities also reported, the death toll stands at 1,688, officials said.

"We now have what we didn’t have two months ago, an understanding of what COVID-19 cases, deaths, hospitalizations and ventilator and ICU usage look like every day in Illinois,” Pritzker said on Thursday, presenting data that he’s basing his decisions on.

Pritzker addressed projections that Illinois will not see its peak in the COVID-19 pandemic until next month, after models previously projected an April peak.

A pushed-out peak “is the best indicator that we are flattening the curve,” Pritzker said.

“That’s what you’re aiming to do, slow down the rate of transmission, which leads to a slower rate of increase over a longer period of time,” Pritzker said. “Hence, a later and lower peak, pushing the peak further down the line might not sound like good news, but I promise you, it saves lives.”

The modified executive order will require businesses deemed “essential” to provide face-coverings to all employees who are not able to maintain six feet of social distance, and will impose occupancy limits for essential businesses and other measures including shift-staggering and operating only essential lines for manufacturers.

Schools will be able to establish procedures for pick-up of necessary supplies or student belongings, while dormitory move-outs will be required to follow public guidelines including social distancing.

The Illinois Department of Public Health will also be issuing guidance to surgi-centers and hospitals to allow for certain elective surgeries beginning May 1. They will need to meet specific criteria, including providing personal protective equipment.

Pritzker had said earlier he planned to make changes to the stay-at-home order and that restrictions will continue to be needed to curb the spread of the coronavirus.

Republican lawmakers have urged the governor to consider provisions that allow some businesses to reopen with density controls and social distancing. They also urged him to reopen state parks and allow some elective medical procedures, which he said Wednesday he was considering.

“We will be making some changes to the stay-at-home order as it is, but it is true that it is working,” Pritzker said on Tuesday. “So to pull it off, the stay-at-home order … to remove it entirely, is to simply open everything back up to infection.”

Pritzker had a conference call with the state’s four legislative leaders Wednesday evening but didn’t share plans to extend the order, sources said.

On Thursday, House Republican leader Jim Durkin sent a letter to Pritzker reiterating his requests for changes to accompany the extension, including sharing the epidemiological projections the administration is using in making its decisions.

House Republican Leader Jim Durkin said in a statement he was “pleased” with Pritzker’s actions and that the modifications reflect some of the priorities his caucus was pushing for, but that “we must do more to restore economic vitality of the state while maintaining the health and safety of our citizens.”

Senate GOP leader Bill Brady of Bloomington urged similar steps in an interview with the Tribune on Wednesday.

The stay-at-home order took effect March 21, and already has been extended once.

When Pritzker issued the order last month, he had already ordered schools closed and dine-in service at bars and restaurants suspended across the state.

The stay-at-home order is the most aggressive action Pritzker has taken to stem the spread of COVID-19, as it directed residents to stay home, with a number of exceptions that were deemed essential, including front-line workers, trips to the grocery store and walking pets or exercising outside.

On March 20, when Pritzker announced the stay-at-home order, Illinois had 585 confirmed cases of COVID-19 spread across 25 counties, and five people had died. On Wednesday, state officials announced the largest number of new cases in a single day, 2,049. The statewide total as of Wednesday stood at 35,108 known cases and 1,565 deaths since the outbreak began earlier this year.

Pritzker and Illinois Department of Public Health Director Dr. Ngozi Ezike have said the state is “bending the curve,” which they’ve attributed to people practicing social distancing and following the stay-at-home order.

But that’s also pushed back the state’s projected peak in the COVID-19 pandemic, which Pritzker said this week is now expected to be in mid-May, weeks beyond the April peak models were previously predicting.

The stay-at-home order that’s been in place since March 21 bars residents from socializing with people from outside their household, and closed playgrounds, though Pritzker left the decision up to local jurisdictions whether to close other park and green spaces. Illinois state parks have been closed.

Roads and airports have remained open, and people have been able to go to grocery stores, gas stations and pharmacies and to care for elderly family members and vulnerable residents.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavir...goua-story.html

Oh my god

http://youtu.be/42qWRwEtF_w?t=394

.....I can't even.

Science education is important. How many people are going to head to stores and become glass tube swallowers?

Unbelievable. Can you imagine having to answer him when he ask these idiotic things in front of the world. What a moron.