Stupid clueless trump ... i sure wish we had one of those sharp economic minds like Joe or Bernie or even AOC .... we’d be in so much better shape ... ...
There are two obvious solutions to this problem. People will have to summon the courage to crawl out of their bunkers and go back to work. Or,the Gov't can just print up trillions of dollars and give everyone a million or so. The US has traveled a long way.In less than 50 years we have gone from "Ask not what your country can do for you" to "Free,free,free I want everything for free."
There are two obvious solutions to this problem. People will have to summon the courage to crawl out of their bunkers and go back to work. Or,the Gov't can just print up trillions of dollars and give everyone a million or so. The US has traveled a long way.In less than 50 years we have gone from "Ask not what your country can do for you" to "Free,free,free I want everything for free."
Heck, AOC wants everyone to boycott work when they are told to go back to work. Simply stupid and amazing!
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Well when the whining stops from the right and people realize that just trying to start it all up again still leaves them screwed what are we going to do? Y'all going to live off the markets? Y'all got a billion tucked away for your rainy day?
We are already hearing how many businesses will simply not be able to make it. 26 million lost jobs are not all coming back because we rush back to work. What's coming back is another round of infections.
So you can attack the messenger, because I had the gaul to start a thread about the economic fallout, or we can start talking about the what needs to be done to lessen the pain and mitigate disaster #2.
And Purp, you can't defend stupid. Trump is just plain stupid. Unless you think we could inject disinfectant in COVID-19 patients to clear them right up... This is not the person we want leading the economy through worst of times.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
I'm not defending stupid. I'm attacking the stupid. Blaming the government for not stopping a depression while flipping out if they attempt to get people out of their houses they can get the economy going again is absolutely ignorant.
Furthermore, blaming a single government when the entire freaking global economy is in the crapper because of this demonstrates a complete and total lack of understanding at the most basic level.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
The entire world hinges on our government or the dollar. So that makes our moves even more important. Obama understood this.
As for getting 'people out of their houses', well that's one thing. But getting people to go out and get 'infected with a deadly virus' because you want them to work is another. I'm happy I work from home and pity the poor people that have to go back to their cubicles and factory lines. They deserve a government that at least attempts to keep them safe and doesn't just lose it's crap because the market dips sharply. Nothing about going back to work right now is safe for those this thing kills so easily and anyone who acts like that is some light decision is delusional. That's the epitome of callous and stupid.
You are not going to improve this situation with another round of mass casualties. PERIOD.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
I wonder what othe governments across the world are doing to support their citizens? I wonder if they gave over 150 billion to corporations in tax breaks so executives could get their yearly million dollar bonus?
Let's take a look.
Quote:
Australia
The Australian government will spend 320 billion Australian dollars, or 16.4% of GDP, in response to COVID-19, including $130 billion in wage subsidies. The plan includes expanded eligibility for the JobSeeker Payment, which pays $550 per fortnight, and the JobKeeper Payment, which pays $1,500 per fortnight for up to six months for those who would otherwise have to be let go. They are also offering $20,000-$100,000 to small and medium-sized businesses and not-for-profits. More information can be found on the Treasury website.
Without any additional funding, the Australia Council for the Arts has redirected $5m from available fund to provide immediate relief to Australian artists, art workers, and art organisations. Individual states are also offering additional support. More information is available on the website of the Australia Council for the Arts.
Canada
On 28 March, Canada raised its economic stimulus spending to 202 billion Canadian dollars. This includes a Temporary Wage Subsidy for Employers, Employment Insurance for employees, and the Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB) for self-employed people, which could include artists and cultural workers whose income has been disrupted. The CER is a payment of $2,000 per month for up to four months.
To help arts organisations survive while their doors are closed, the Canada Council for the Arts will be making advance payments totalling $60 million—equivalent to 35% of their annual grants—to their 1,100 core-funded organisations.
More information on resources available to art and culture workers, including the Temporary Wage Subsidy, Employment Insurance and the CERB, is available on the website of the Canada Council for the Arts.
Hong Kong
In late February the Hong Kong government announced its Anti-epidemic Fund, 120 billion Hong Kong dollars worth of measures to support the economy, including a cash payout of $10,000 to residents age 18 and above, and low-interest loans with government guarantees for small businesses. A second round of measures to support businesses and residents impacted by the COVID-19 outbreak will be announced shortly, according to chief secretary for administration Matthew Cheung Kin-chung. More information on these benefits can be found on Hong Kong's coronavirus response website.
Also included in the Anti-epidemic Fund is $150 million to support the arts sector, of which $50 million was allocated to the Hong Kong Arts Development Council to strengthen its Support Scheme for Arts & Cultural Sector. The HKADC expects the scheme to benefit more than 630 organisations and projects with up to $130,000 and around 4,600 arts practitioners with up to $7,500. More information is available on the HKADC website.
New Zealand
New Zealand announced a stimulus package of $12.1 billion New Zealand dollars, or 4% of GDP on 17 March, adding an additional $4 billion to the package on 23 March. Wage subsidies will allow employers to draw $586 per week per full time staff member and $350 per week for part time workers to offset a 30% or greater drop in revenue from January to June 2020. The self-employed, sole traders and contractors are also eligible for the wage subsidy. More information is available on the Work and Income website.
Government arts agency Creative New Zealand's Emergency Response Package will provide $16 million to support the arts community, with funding available from 14 April. Funding includes: Arts Continuity Grants (up to $50,000) to support the creation of new work or the reframing of an existing project; Emergency Relief Grants (up to $10,000) for artists experiencing devastating loss of income and opportunity and an uncertain future; and unspecified sums for arts organisations. A second phase of funding providing support beyond June will be discussed in April. More information is available on the website of Creative New Zealand.
United Kingdom
The British government's total economic relief package to date is £330 billion, or 15% of GDP. It has promised to pay 80% of the wages of furloughed workers and 80% of the income of self-employed people for three months, up to £2,500 per month. It has also introduced cash grants up to £25,000 for small businesses. More information is available on gov.uk.
Arts Council England has released plans for a £160 million emergency response package that will give £20m to artists, creatives and freelancers, with grants of up to £2,500 each, and offers £50m to organisations outside its national portfolio, with a further £90m to support National Portfolio Organisations such as the Barbican Centre and the Whitechapel Gallery. More information is available on the website of Arts Council England.
A new Culture in Quarantine Fund launched by BBC Arts with Arts Council England is also offering grants of £3,000-8,000 for projects that 'could have been made at no other time'.
Boo-hoo Nobody would have "attacked" the messenger,until said messenger decided to editorialize with this "Looks like we're headed for a depression and our government is doing nothing to stop it." The hypocrisy in that statement borders on dishonesty.
What's being done to stop it? Spell it out. OR shut up.
Does enticing neo nazis to protest count? Or screaming we have to get the economy going, does that count? Why even have the shut down if you are just going to order people to be exposed to what you shut them down to protect them from? Money over people is the hypocrisy, GOPers just don't want to accept it. They could give a damn about the lives that will be lost.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 04/24/2012:50 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
None of that stuff is preventing a recession. Businesses not doing business is causing the recession. Printing money to hand out to people is NOT a solution. It's a band-aid and not one that can be used repeatedly, nor without repercussions.
There is ONE way to prevent a recession and it is to get everyone's economies going again. That's it. Nothing else will do it. You can write all the checks you want, but that just delays things and those checks have to be able to be cashed and still be worth something.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
time to invade some whack african country for its resources. war always seem to spur economic growth for whatever sick and twisted reason.
or we can make it interesting and take over Brazil. atleast we'll be entertained on quarantine.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Your Sweden idea won't help, either. It's obvious from various sources that social distancing saves lives. I'm not in favor of sacrificing anyone, period.
We will be in a recession regardless of what happens from here on out. There's no avoiding it. Governments should help keep their citizens healthy. Sending a bunch of sacrificial lambs in order to make the 1% happy is no way to go.
Why can't we do what these other nations are doing to help their citizens? Or does your argument boil down to "I don't like social democracies."
Shut up? Wow,I must have touched a nerve. It's your thread,you're the one being critical,of everything. Tell us your solution,or,you know. BTW,I've always enjoyed a good neo-nazi rally.I find watching fat old bald headed white guys trying to goose step comical.
well, then we'd own Mardi Gras *and* Carnivale, so there's that.... I'm down.
I think people need to realize that the federal government is not, never was, and never should be as omnipotent as they think it is. You can't just wave a wand and say "Recessionus Begonus".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Your Sweden idea won't help, either. It's obvious from various sources that social distancing saves lives. I'm not in favor of sacrificing anyone, period.
Just what is it you think Sweden isn't doing?
Quote:
We will be in a recession regardless of what happens from here on out. There's no avoiding it. Governments should help keep their citizens healthy. Sending a bunch of sacrificial lambs in order to make the 1% happy is no way to go.
Agreed. Recession was an almost inevitability as soon as 90%+ of the world economies shut down. That's just the way it is.
Quote:
Why can't we do what these other nations are doing to help their citizens? Or does your argument boil down to "I don't like social democracies."
I'll paraphrase DeWine: It's a tightrope act. We need to help people, but contrary to popular belief, government money doesn't come magically out of nowhere. The best way to keep us being able to help people is to start getting this economy restarted. Unlike the federal governement, most state governments are not allowed to run deficits. Hospitals need income to actually keep paying those nurses and doctors.... MONEY has to get circulating.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
however, more broadly, i can make a credible argument that if 80% of the total bailout relief went to individual americans instead of corporations, maybe it would be easier to kick start the economy.
especially seeing as 2/3rds of our GDP is consumer spending.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I won't argue that. More definitely needed to be done for individual families and a LOT less needed to be done for a lot of the international corporations that we bailed out.
The $600/week for the unemployed thing is going to help, though. It ain't much, but it will help take the edge off the worst of things, especially combined with regular state unemployment.
Still, that's money that can't and won't last forever. We have to start working toward where we want the economy to be 13, 16, 18 weeks from now when that money is gone.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
First off, the corporate welfare aspect in all of this I agree with. They were given HUGE tax cuts just a year ago and now it seems that they once again get a large bailout. At some point enough is enough.
I too believe that with the trillions of dollars in relief packages that have been passed, the American people are actually receiving the smallest part of the pie. The smallest businesses who need the most help were also put last in line.
To me those things are unforgivable.
But that would have done nothing to stop a massive economic downturn in such a situation.
I would certainly feel better having a president that actually had an open mind that didn't surround himself with only corporate giants and their special interest whispering in his ear.
But to blame the current economic situation on the current government is not accurate by any stretch. Those nations doing more for their people and less for their large corporations are faring no better in terms of their economies.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
"I would certainly feel better having a president, senators, and representatives that actually had an open mind that didn't surround themselves with only corporate giants and their special interest whispering in their ears."
He talks and is the face, but nothing gets set in ink without those others writing it out and voting it into action. His talk and his cronies certainly didn't inject all that pork into the bill (not to detract from the points being made, but to enhance the point)
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I guess that would depend on your definition of pork. I consider much of the pork to be a lot of the corporate welfare injected into the bills. I consider a lot of the pork the guidelines set out when dispersing the funds to small businesses to insure the biggest of them were first in line to get those loans.
And yes, I consider Mitch McConnell a huge Trump and special interest crony along with a lot of other Republican senators that helped get these bills written and passed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You consider the corporate welfare (as do I to an extent), I consider the stuff added by Pelosi to be pork... regardless, pork is pork and it doesn't get in without the lawmakers having corporate giants and their special interest whispering in their ear.
it was supposed to be about helping the people, it was sold to the people as being to help the people.... it became a free-for-all. And note I don't pick a side in that statement.
"Let no crisis go to waste."
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
What is the pork you are speaking of? I've pretty much given you my perspective of the biggest portion of the pork in the bill. I'm very interested in seeing yours.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Shut up? Wow,I must have touched a nerve. It's your thread,you're the one being critical,of everything. Tell us your solution,or,you know. BTW,I've always enjoyed a good neo-nazi rally.I find watching fat old bald headed white guys trying to goose step comical.
Your dishonesty comment earned you that deservingly.
And I know what I would do. I would institute UBI of $2000 a month like canada did and pour money into food relief programs. I would set up the groundwork for MC4A and initiate that program as well. We can use the war fund to fund it until taxes start coming in. I would send states the funds they need to keep services going without a cap. Then I would take a methodical approach to reopening the entire economy for all workers but require distancing, masks, gloves, plexiglass shielding, hand sanitizer and handwashing stations. Ask business owners to keep as many people as possible working remotely from home and to bring employees back incrementally with the most at risk being last. I would also keep the small business (for true small business) loans coming without a cap. Restaurants, bars, other businesses that might be slow to recover need a large cushion so those jobs can be saved.
I would rather spend 10 trillion to bring the economy back at full pace or as close as possible than let people suffer and tons of small businesses go under. But I give a damn about people so I know those things won't fly with the right.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.
Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Recession is not my concern. Depression is my concern. Tent cities and soup lines. People going hungry and homeless. Not having medical care. Not having services in full like police, ems, fire... 30% unemployment puts you there, not at some economic bump in the road.
You can open everything tomorrow, that doesn't mean people want to be at those businesses working or spending money and risking their lives. There needs to be a serious mandated dose of common sense precautions because of the idiots. And a government figure head that doesn't incite fear everytime he opens his mouth. You want people to feel safe and re engage in the economy, then you're going to have to make them feel safe.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 04/24/2004:08 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.
Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.
Does bailing out wall street and billionaires have to do with COVID relief? And more tax cuts for the rich?
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 04/24/2004:10 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
you can add all the common sense you want, and even mandate it, but if you don't let the businesses open in the first place you're just guaranteeing an outcome.
Let me simplify: the only way to avoid a recession/depression, or exit it quickly, is to get the economy moving again. Period.
To do that, yes, we are ABSOLUTELY going to have to enforce some common sense measures about HOW we do that. What that looks like and how it will be done is still being discussed at every level. Regardless of what it looks like though, the first part MUST happen.
You CANNOT avoid or get out of a depression by sitting idle. You can ONLY do it by getting businesses going and money circulating.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.
Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.
Does bailing out wall street and billionaires have to do with COVID relief? And more tax cuts for the rich?
Did I say it didn't?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
The only real point I must disagree with is paying the 15$ an hour. At the point you call some of these people "essential employees" rather than what they actually are, sacrificial lambs, is the time people should admit that these people deserve to make a living. And it is odd how Trump himself supported that money for The Kennedy Center.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So that being said, which country will be volun-told to declare that they desperately need our freedom services?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
you can add all the common sense you want, and even mandate it, but if you don't let the businesses open in the first place you're just guaranteeing an outcome.
Let me simplify: the only way to avoid a recession/depression, or exit it quickly, is to get the economy moving again. Period.
To do that, yes, we are ABSOLUTELY going to have to enforce some common sense measures about HOW we do that. What that looks like and how it will be done is still being discussed at every level. Regardless of what it looks like though, the first part MUST happen.
You CANNOT avoid or get out of a depression by sitting idle. You can ONLY do it by getting businesses going and money circulating.
I agree that you have to get it going. And the way we got out of the last one was by printing A LOT of money. That is how this one needs to be handled. You can't just bail out the rich and thumb your nose at the working class when then staying afloat is the difference between recession and depression.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
you can add all the common sense you want, and even mandate it, but if you don't let the businesses open in the first place you're just guaranteeing an outcome.
Let me simplify: the only way to avoid a recession/depression, or exit it quickly, is to get the economy moving again. Period.
To do that, yes, we are ABSOLUTELY going to have to enforce some common sense measures about HOW we do that. What that looks like and how it will be done is still being discussed at every level. Regardless of what it looks like though, the first part MUST happen.
You CANNOT avoid or get out of a depression by sitting idle. You can ONLY do it by getting businesses going and money circulating.
I agree that you have to get it going. And the way we got out of the last one was by printing A LOT of money. That is how this one needs to be handled. You can't just bail out the rich and thumb your nose at the working class when then staying afloat is the difference between recession and depression.
Yeah! Then we can all eat ice cream and wait it out!
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
You're one liners are rather comical. The White House unveiled the steps to open the economy. They laid out the steps for the guideline of what should be required to open it up and the requirements to move ahead in those steps. Some states are ignoring that and going ahead without meeting those requirements.
money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.
Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.
Does bailing out wall street and billionaires have to do with COVID relief? And more tax cuts for the rich?
Bailing out wall street and billionaires? If you man some of our larger businses like the Airlines. Do you really want to let these big business go under. Last I heard they hire quite a few people too. Cuts for the rich? Sam old liberal BS.
Didn't they just get huge tax cuts last year? Where did all of that money go?
I'm just curious because ya'll used to be the party of personal responsibility. Now you seem to be the party of annual corporate bailouts.
I'll never forget how all of you reacted when Obama bailed out the auto industry and the banks during our last financial crisis. What happened over the past decade?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Didn't they just get huge tax cuts last year? Where did all of that money go?
I'm just curious because ya'll used to be the party of personal responsibility. Now you seem to be the party of annual corporate bailouts.
I'll never forget how all of you reacted when Obama bailed out the auto industry and the banks during our last financial crisis. What happened over the past decade?
Yeah Pit, let em all go under. They don't hire anybody. Give that money to Illegal Immigrants.
...
