DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Linebackers

I'm putting myself out there for the year on paper before practices and pre-season.

It appears we have a linebacker core that is the worst in the NFL. They are all retreads or unknowns.

Projected starters would be
Bj Goodson at the WLB possibly Jacob Phillips. with Robert McCray and Trevon Young backing up
Mack Wilson at MLB and Jermaine Grace as the backup
Taki Taki at SLB. Tae Davis and Willie Harvey as the backups.


Wilson does have that Junkyard dog mentality (see his deleted twitter post) https://twitter.com/JRown32/status/1195428203994767362/photo/1
He wants to be "the guy" I just don't know if he is. I would love for him and the others to go to the next 11 Pro Bowls. We also know as fans that is more not the case than the case. He is the best of the bunch. He is an 8 in a group of 4's so it's very hard to judge if he is an 8 or if he is a 6.

Goodson has been a starter, so to speak. He has definitely found a way not to make tackles or plays. He started 9 games last year and made 37 tackles. Those are good starts for a DT, they are terrible stats for an SLB. Maybe it was the scheme, maybe it wasn't. I guess we will find out. Maybe Phillips will take his spot or maybe he will step it up.

Taki Taki is the biggest unknown. 1 game started and only played 10% of Defensive snaps taken. Not exactly a lot to go on here.

Depth our depth is not exactly inspiring. - I don't see much to discuss. Maybe I will be surprised.

I'm to the point where I'd rather play with 6 DB's and 5 DL than trot our this sacrificial joke of an LB group. Maybe we could go 5 DB's 1 LB and 5 DL. The way the FO has been signing DB's and DL it looks like the team thinks that too LOL Either way, it's not great.

There appears to be some talent left on the free market with players like Clay Matthews Ogletree, Darron Lee, Nigel Bradham, Kendricks, Woodyard, Barron, Burfict.

Should we be trading picks in next year's draft and looking under every rock?

I would be shocked if we didn’t sign a veteran or two before the season starts. This group just isn’t good enough right now. There are way too many unknowns.

I believe picking up a vet LB to mentor our guys is the way to go. We have potential with this group but we could use a "coach on the field" so to speak.

I get the feeling that we are filling the baskets up front and in back. Our D will be all about creating quick, violent pressure while stopping the run up front, and then having a rock star secondary on the back end.

In between, while they aren't an afterthought, we'll be investing less heavily in LBers and perhaps instead being more creative (the whole extra safety vs a LB thing).

In short, the LBers are there mostly as pass rushers and run stoppers, and less so about stopping the pass and looking more to the secondary for that help.

I think rating these guys without seeing how they work in the scheme is nonsense.

We have to sign a vet IMO. Bradham may be a choice

Then why are these players on the team, and the players from a few years ago, who could play, are no longer?

I could of sworn we were interested him early in FA...I recall seeing something about him.

I am in hopes, we are waiting for veterans to drop their asking price...Which they usually do after the draft concludes.

I wouldn't mind Bradham, Ogletree, or Avery Williamson.

I know Williamson is still with the Jets, However it was mentioned several weeks ago...that he may be a cap casualty (Jets are deep at MLB, His contract is big and he tore his ACL- I believe early in preseason last year)

As it stands on paper, or LB core looks somewhat like the Bengals core last year...that's not good

Couldnt have said it better. Would we like better LB's? sure but this is what we currently have and how we are going to work with it.

Avery Williamson would be interesting too

I believe Mack Wilson will make a huge leap in 2020. He will be a Pro Bowl linebacker in the near future. I was confident when the Browns made that pick. He showed it in Pre season but should have had more time to develop behind Christian Kirksey. He got hurt early in the season and I think Mack was rushed into full time duty earlier than he was ready. I think he will be our most improved returning player in 2020 and a fan favorite.

I think this desire for wanting an immediate answer at LB is a little over the top. You have to give our young guys a chance. There is no way they can grow if they don't see the field. Despite the uncertainty, our LBs are in a VERY good situation. They have an outstanding d-line in front of them with Garrett, Vernon, Obunjobi, and Richardson, and a very talented secondary behind them. They are being put in a situation to succeed.

Mack is going to be a key player to this defense, and I think a year from now we'll all be talking about how we need to extend his deal. Between the other LB position, there is less certainty, but between Goodson, Taki, and Phillips, I think we'll be okay.

Turk, if you looked at all 90+ starting linebackers in the nfl, I wonder how many walked out of college, started and performed at a high level, and how many spent a year or two playing part time, learning and developing their craft. Seems like we have a tendency to proclaim rookies garbage if they are not great from play one. Most need some time.

I feel the bigger question is do we have enough LB'ers from a depth standpoint for the position.

Sure we have enough names on the roster at the position, but how much will we lose at the position when they come into the line up? LB'er isn't an every down position. They rotate in and out of the game.

You are certainly correct in the need to develop your roster, but with two second year LB'er and journeymen playing behind them, do we have enough adequate LB'ers to service the position come game day? In my opinion, no.

Should’ve resigned schobert. I still think it was a dumb move not to. Regardless if it’s Dorsey or berry.

Having him and Mack starting would’ve been fine. Instead we let a pro bowl player walk for no other reason than being cheap.

We won’t truly know until we see these guys on Sunday, but I’m not encouraged.

I am so so glad we didn't draft Mehhhlik Harrison or re-sign Joe Slowbert.

I agree with you. IMO we need to bring in a veteran to the room, hopefully one that is a starter. I don’t feel comfortable with all of the youth we have in the room.

I would love to see the Browns sign Mathews, and not just for the sentimentality of the name. I think Clay jr can help the rest of the LB unit gel with his experience and mentorship.

Who do you love? Clay Matthews has sentimental appeal to me. We haven't has real nasty LB play for awhile and it has shown up regularly. Which vets might best get this unit off the field and stall the chains?

faves here?

I saw that Michael Kendricks is available. Just looked it up today.

He looked good (two?) years ago here. Maybe we could sign him to a one year contract or something. He's a very versatile LB for whatever we need

What IS the story on his insider trading punishment?

Has he been sentenced yet?

Free agent linebacker Mychal Kendricks had his federal sentencing for pleading guilty to insider trading charges postponed for a sixth time, according to Ben Arthur of SeattlePI.com.

The new sentencing date is May 29.

The original date for sentencing was Jan. 23, 2019 with the subsequent postponements now having delayed the process a full 18 months. The charge Kendricks pleaded guilty to in September 2018 carries a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison. A co-defendant in the case with Kendricks, Damilare Sonoiki, reportedly was sentenced to three years probation.

Kendricks was accused of making nearly $1.2 million in illegal profits on four investments four years ago. The linebacker admitted wrongdoing in a statement and cooperated with the investigation.

Kendricks was released by the Cleveland Browns shortly after he admitted to the crimes in August 2018. The Seattle Seahawks signed him in September 2018 and he’s spent the last two seasons with the team. He’s appeared in just 18 total games over that span as an eight-game suspension was levied for the guilty plea in 2018 before a broken leg ended his season in his first game back. Kendricks appeared in 14 games last year before a torn ACL in the final game of the regular season ended his year.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/25/mychal-kendricks-sentencing-postponed-again/

He tore his ACL in December

Damn, there goes that plan. He'd have been a good option, esp. if the legal issues were behind him

Yeesh... that's a rough couple years.

It's isn't very good right now.


First, I think we are going to see a lot of 5-6 DB sets. Just the way the game is going, so the value of LB's has been diminished to some degree. That is why a guy like Simmons is so coveted. Kind of a hybrid player. It's why I kind of wish we still had Peppers. He fits that mold.

My other thought is now that the draft is over, we can catch our breath and go back to free agents. I don't think we are done on that front, and now that the draft is over, the guys still without a team aren't going to be asking for the moon. It's dollars ands sense time now. Do the dollars and player fit make sense?

Take Matthews Jr. Beyond being a good story, he is still a pretty good player who would be a upgrade for a few years.

If the dollars make sense and the fit makes sense, go ahead and throw a little up front money on a easy 3 year deal.

You can't fix everything in one off season, and losing Shobert didn't take us from a great linebacking room to a weak room. We were still pretty weak with him.

His asking price didn't make sense.

Hopefully the front office has a plan, there is a limit to the money spent on players, S could cover, but we were near the bottom in run D- LBs own a lot of that. We need to pay G soon so going young AND hoping for better OVERALL D could happen....Go Browns!!!

On paper, it's one of the worst units in the league for sure.

The more I think about it, while it remains an uncertainty, the less deeply I'm concerned about it.


In the end, the LBers are going to be as good or as bad as the DLine in front of them. An improved rotation up front should help things a LOT.

Scho was great in coverage, but he struggled with getting caught in traffic and stopping the run. I think the young kids are/will be better in that regard. It will possibly come at the cost of not being as good in coverage, but if choosing between pass coverage and run stopping, I'd rather my LBers skill set lean toward stuffing the run.


As for bringing in a veteran, I think to do that we might end up having to let one of the young kids walk... I don't think I feel good about that. I don't know how many we currently have or how many we tend to carry on the roster, however. Aside from that, however, there simply aren't any LBers available that are both 3-down types, isn't a 3-4 tweener type, AND is 30 years of age or younger. It would be a great story to have Clay, III here, but he's 34 and definitely is not what he used to be. Aside from him, there just isn't anyone that hasn't been franchised. Given that, I don't see us bringing anyone in.

Baltimore is the living and breathing example of a franchise committed to stopping the run. They are nearly always a competitive football team. The Browns have been living in half measures for two decades.

That is as good a description of every aspect of our franchise as any I've ever seen.
We've been committed to committing to nothing.

I think that's it in a nutshell. With help these guys will probably be adequate with the potential to improve and grow significantly. With a healthy DL - and as good as ours is on paper when healthy - the LBers *should* be okay or possibly better. But what team and what unit on any team is healthy all season long? It's definitely a risk/area of concern.

If anything, I think last year showed how 'precarious' (if that's the right word) that approach can be. We started the year with (at least, what we thought was) an embarrassment of riches at Dline, and our defense depended on that. What followed was some of that Dline talent not playing up to snuff, and combining that with losing dline bodies to trade/injury, our defense kinda went down the crapper (and the D never even met the level of dominance that it was supposed to).

I think the biggest problem - aside from losing our best player for half the season over a brainfart - was that the drop off in talent behind our starters was so significant. When we lost both Vernon AND Garrett, we were hosed. Offenses didn't have to do anything special at all to keep our DLine at bay. They could focus all their attention on our guys in the middle and the guys on the ends were left on an island... and regularly left gambling and losing on which gap to take. I can't even count how many times I saw our DE shift outside just before the snap, vacating the very gap the RB ended up going through. He was then easily taken out of the play, sealed outside, by their OT.
I mean, it happened so often, the tin foil wearing types would have to call it planned.

How much worse are our linebackers be this year as compared to last year or 2?

We lost Kirksey but how many games did he play?
Looks like he played 7 games in 2018 and 2 games in 2019
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16767/christian-kirksey
So not much of a loss.

Schobert is gone. How much of a loss is that?
Personally, I think his play was overrated.
Against the run he was below average IMO
Against the pass, I think he was overrated a lot by this board.
Yes he had 4 interceptions but half were of deflections
If he was so good in coverage, why do we get abused by opposing TE's every year?

What we lose with Scho being gone is his brain.
He clearly was the on field coach of the defense.
Not the easiest thing to replace but doesn't have to be a linebacker.
Before Joe we had a deficit but the last guy who could handle it was that slow safety a few years prior -Brian Russell maybe?

Now if Wilson and Taki improve any, then our Lb corp may actually be better than it has been

I think part of the problem was scheme and coaching. One of the things that Takitaki mentioned during his recent interview is that the new defense is simpler and will allow him to play faster. I think Wilks defense was pretty complicated especially for being new for everyone. It doesn't help that we seemed to be rolling new players into it about every week.

Our safety play was also somewhat suspect (especially later in the season) which may have contributed to some hesitancy with the young LBs. They didn't have a very good safety net behind them. Thinking too much about assignments and worrying about mistakes seemed to slow them down.

Hopefully this staff will have Takitaki playing more aggressively. (And the DL will be more disciplined in front of him.)

I should've mentioned this during my last post, but I have no idea what type of defense we're going to be running. I don't know how much the scheme requires of its LBs.