DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns re-sign Rashard Higgins

Simply the fact that an NFL player, one that saw himself pushed waaaaay down the depth chart in consecutive seasons via top-dollar FA acquisitions, playing for a coach/GM that didn't draft him (and had started developing a rep for not hanging onto players not drafted by him), in a contract year, crossed his arms and refused to go into a game?

I don't know, man... that's just insane and hard to believe. You're telling me a guy that just got pushed down the depth chart to fringe starter, coming off an injury with limited time to play his way into a new contract would choose not to play? And IIRC, he had been wanting to play before that, and Kitchens made him a healthy scratch.

Just my opinion and assumption. I find that whole scenario really hard to believe.

It's okay that we disagree. I think it's as simple as Higgins coming off of an injury and then complaining to the media when he wasn't immediately getting a lot of reps in his first game back. I think that upset Kitchens and then the relationship was devastated after the player refused to enter the game.

That's some heavy stuff right there, oober. But again, I have no problem w/you thinking differently.

I sort of agree with you. WFNY is also essentially a blog too, isn't it? Have we seen this story corroborated anywhere else?

Who knows more about what's going on then the players? Really nobody. So if that's true, and I believe it is, How come no players have come out negative about Higgins?

What I'm saying is, that those that know, aren't upset with Higgins.. Why should we be?

Yeah, my take isn't meant to be taken as fact at all. Heavy heavy assumption get to my (non)conclusion. I'm simply saying the picture painted really strains believability. Also, the only thing I've read is just single-liners buried in articles when his refusal to go in is mentioned. No details... no context.... hell, I don't think they even used their go-to "sources" line, iirc. That part being glossed over also makes me hesitant to take that story at face value.

Just doesn't add up for me... that's all.

We will never know the details, but there a couple interesting talking points in your post.

IMO, FK wasn’t a good HC. I didn’t know it would fail as spectacularly as it did, but I didn’t feel the vibe from Freddie, in terms of being a good head coach.

Gregg Williams was the smarter choice, I said it then, and always will.

I find it more interesting that the Browns resigned him after he acted this way. It is really telling how little they thought of Freddie Kitchens.

Read that last link, and that was one of jfanent’s points: he was re-signed.

Just because this FO kept Higgins does not automatically mean it was the right decision. I don't think you win w/guys like that.

Not sure how many of you read the articles, but the lack of leadership from the players on the roster is a concern. The fact that a guy like Higgins would be that selfish is concerning.

I think people are talking themselves into every problem the Browns had will disappear because Freddie is no longer here. I think that is Fools Gold. I never liked Freddie as a HC, but this team had more issues than just his ineptness at the job.

Heinz Ward walking off the field before the game was over
John Elway Refusing to play for the Colts.
Eli refusing to play for San Diego
Bo Jackson refused to play for Tampa Bay
Ernie Davis refused to play for the Redskins
Rich Gannon refused to play for New England


players refuse to play for coaches or organizations all the time.

Heck, we just saw trade for one of the best LT in the league.

What is your point?

Four of those guys never played for those teams.

playe

that was my point. players act crazy. it doesn't mean they will turn out to be bad players.

I was speaking of players polluting the team they are on by refusing to play during a game. That is not good for chemistry. Manning did not hurt the Chargers chemistry by not wanting to go there. If anything, they probably used it as motivation.

I think AB refused to go into a game. The Steelers traded him to Oakland. Higgins is no AB. He isn't even a starter. I am okay w/you disagreeing, but his selfishness does not sit well w/me.

not "kept", brought back.

I'm not really taking a side here, but my GUESS is that there is more to the story than what is in the articles, or the story itself is minor enough that this coach and FO are comfortable giving him a one-year "prove it" contract.

He has talent, he has chemistry with the starting QB, and he's dirt cheap... if he works out, great. If he doesn't, he's cheap enough to cut without blinking. We win either way.

I tend to agree with you. There must be more to the story than any of us know.

I bet there wouldn't be a "lot more to the story" if it was OBJ who pulled the same stunt. I have read posts about cutting/trading OBJ because he wore crazy shoes and a watch.

Yeah, Like maybe he just wants to be a part of something special ... and it's probably his best opportunity going forward to sort of redeem himself for 2019.

I tend to agree with you, but I really got a feeling after Freddie was fired, that not many of the players had much respect for him as the season went on. More than one player confronted him on the sidelines during the season.

While I don't like that attitude from players, to me, there was some major issues with how he was coaching the team.

I can't speak to what others may think about things.

I have tried to make this clear and I will try again.

I think Freddie sucked as a HC!!! I think he deserved to be fired!

I was the one guy who said something like I will wait and see how Freddie handles the HC duties before I proclaim him to be such a great hire on bonefish's thread about Freddie last year.

I am not defending Freddie. I'm saying that there are other issues at play here.

I can, because those posts already exist.

Reading the tea leaves with what happened with Freddie... I think he started to feel the pressure of being the CEO of the team and couldn't handle it. He just didn't know how to handle adversity as a leader.

People act differently when they are under pressure. In 2018 there was no pressure after Hue was fired. Freddie had nothing to lose and things went well.

Things didn't go well to start the season and I think Freddie didn't respond like a leader should to the team. It really seemed like he just kept doing the same thing over again and kept repeating his "get better" mantra with no real "how" behind it.

Over time the team tends to sense that and it becomes really corrosive to team chemistry.

The issues with Todd Monken coming out after the season was the most telling to me.

Also... Why the hell was Ryan Lindley our QB coach?

I thought he was Baker's friend? I also thought Baker wanted Freddie as the HC?

I also think it is pretty lame to blame the HC for a player who refuses to enter a game. Freddie sucked, but that does not absolve the sins of others.

I think right after that 2 and 5 Start and the loss to the Seahawks Kitchens lost the team and lockeroom.
I even think after that 30 point blowout at home.that Titans game was enough evidence
That Fat Freddie was way in over his head
His whole "whoopdiehell" and "if you ain't Brown and Orange you don't matter " phrases were so irritating.
He was straight out of Andy Griffith
If the players don't respect you then in time
They will stop playing hard for you
Look at the Bengals game.
Zac Taylor had one win the whole year and his team came out and just took the Browns to the woodshed

After Hue and Haley were canned, the Head Coach was Williams. Freddie may have called plays, but he did not have to worry about the whole team, That was William's job, and the team responded to Williams with a 5 - 3 record. I remember reading that Freddie was made Head Coach after the season, because Baker wanted him, and Dorsey wanted to keep Baker happy. If that was true, or just speculation on someone's part, I do not know. Whatever the reason was, the hiring of Freddie, as well as the issues that ensued were instrumental in both Freddie and Dorsey losing their jobs.

Just to be clear... I'm not letting Higgins off the hook. I went back and re-read... it sounded like I was siding with Higgins. I was not.

I was simply saying that I found the story, as it was presented, very hard to believe. Player's number was called to go in, player crosses his arms and stamps his foot and says no (I'm at home with a 2 year old, so my picturing the situation in my head is probably slanted that way :-p ...). Doesn't make sense.

Again... the story, AS IT'S TOLD, is hard to believe. It just feels like we're missing a key part to that story is all I'm saying.
If that story, as it is, IS accurate... then yeah. Cut him now.

I'm not saying to cut him. Heck, the new FO just brought him back. I am just saying that it makes sense when we are trying to figure out why he was in Freddie's dog house. I think it makes a lot more sense than Freddie not liking his nickname. Or, Freddie and Dorsey picking on him because he was chosen by the previous regime. Those kind of "reasons" don't make as much sense to me as Freddie being upset that Higgins complained to the media about not playing much in his first game back from injury and then refusing to enter the very next game against Seattle. In my mind, that is by far the most logical explanation.

I don't think this is true. I think he will have to fight to get snaps, but I don't think his roster status is that much of concern. I would think guys like Ratley, Hodge, Montgomery, Taylor, etc should be more concerned.

I think they view Higgins as the #3 WR (for now) and those usually make the team. Not to mention Odell's injury history and speculation that Landry's surgery recovery might extend far into the summer/fall.

Agree w this. Higgins is pretty entrenched as the #3. He, Landry, OBJ and the rook from UM are on the roster, barring injury.

Yeah, I don't see any of those players being a threat to Higs making the roster, but I would think that goes for DPJ and Hodge.

The question will be who else (if) we keep six ... makes the roster.

I think this aspect is being totally overplayed. Let's look at this from the difference in "what was" and "what is".

At the beginning of the 2018 season, Baker had zero chemistry with anyone other than second team players simply due to working with the second team in training camp and the first few weeks of the season with which Higgins was one of. So "at that point in time" he had better chemistry with Higgins than any of the starters.

Since that time, he has had almost two full seasons working with Landry and an entire season working with OBJ that includes a full training camp with both. Last season he worked more with Ratley and Hodge than Higgins.

So while I certainly won't say there's "zero chemistry" with Higgins, since the 2018 season, and even during the 2018 season, he's had much more time working and delivering the ball to several other targets besides Higgins and in 2019 worked very little at all with Higgins.

Not saying you specifically were overstating this but I have seen a lot of people who I feel certainly do.

It's not as if you could see the same chemistry, however: with them.

With Juice? Yes!

With OBJ? Needs more nurturing...

IF People’s is ready he can do things Higgs can’t ... IF he is ready and at least one of the other WR’s like Hodge is a good special teamer ... Higgs will have a fight on his hands for a roster spot ...

Higgs is in for an interesting year ... love to see him and Bake look like they did in 18 .. thats be huge for us ...

GOOD LUCK HIGGS!!!

^Together with Juice and OBJ they make (5) ... so we have room for all three of the above ... and we could keep (6 depending) ... so who else might give Higs a fight for his roster spot in your opinion?

Ratley? Who like Pit mentioned above got a lot more opportunities last season [me] and drew many flags ... and really didn't make the most of them.