DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns receivers meeting with Baker Mayfield in Austin

Me neither. Landry is a true leader. I think he always was OBJs leader at LSU. The "big" brother. OBJ has even stated this before. Jarvis is who motivated him at LSU. IMO, even if Baker becomes a leader, Landry will always be one too. Being the face of the team, doesn't necessarily make you the locker room leader, that is earned thru work.

I don't disagree that Landry is a natural leader on this team and I don't believe it has to be a choice between Landry or Baker. But there were times last season where Landry wasn't locked on and came off as being more concerned with palling around with OBJ i.e. the shoes debacle. To his credit he did get back on track.

Agreed. People assume that OBJ is the leader of the two because he has acquired more fame and media attention and perhaps because he has had more success. However, this is about personalities and Landry is by fare the more out-going of the two. He is much more vocal and embraces the leadership role. OBJ is more quiet and introspective. People don't like OBJ and try to blame him for all kinds of things that simply are not true.

I think they both feed off each other. They were best buds at LSU, but as people get older, things change.

I don't know what the dynamics are today.

NRTU,

In team sports, leadership is not a zero-sum game. There will be multiple leaders. In the best organizations all the leaders are on the same page in terms of goals. They will give each other room to lead in ways that are most effective, given their personalities and as situations call for. As long as team goals remain the first priority it is fine that they don't all lead the same way. There will be times when one leader may be more visible than another. That does not diminish their leadership.

As fans its possible that some of us get the impression that the one who talks the most (to the media) is The Leader. To me the most important aspects of leadership are about all the things that are done when there are no cameras.

The same can be said of people who don't like Baker.

It seems to me there are always two factions. Those who wish to place too much blame on Baker and those who wish to place no blame on Baker.

Neither are correct. Often times it seems that those who wish to place a reasonable amount of blame on Baker are labeled as someone who tries to place too much blame on Baker.

I don't think people place too much blame on Baker. I do think that some folks resort to insults and personal attacks if one tries to be honest about Baker's issues. I also think some post just to start trouble, like the dude you responded to.

I tried to cover some of what you're saying with the last sentence of my previous post.

Well, in the internet age everyone seems to ignore to real majority in favor of the aural majority... the majority of people are right in the middle. The problem here is there is always a rush to place labels on everyone according to a few posts in which they may differ in opinion from people foaming at the mouth from one of the two factions you spoke of.

Shhhhh...you're going to blow their minds. They'll probably have to read that like twenty times.

Honestly yet to meet or see anyone who places 'no blame' on Baker. Eo is probably the staunchest supporter of Baker who doesn't talk too much about Baker's struggles last year. Device is someone who supports Baker very strongly but also acknowledges he regressed last year and his struggles were more than just the result of Freddie and the other issues that have been discussed.

I do see at least one poster try to drag Baker into any discussion he can and frame the discussion in a negative way about Baker. And at least one who has pronounced him a bust and wanted the Browns to draft a QB this year.

As per Fate's post - I think the overwhelming majority think Baker owned a bunch of his issues last year - and his issues were made significantly worse through multiple factors, none more impactful than Freddie.

I certainly agree that all of Baker's struggles do not rest solely on his shoulders. It was a combination of many factors. Baker himself simply being one of them.

Not me as far as your reasons for why I think VG took a backseat to OBJ .. I base it off the fact at TC OBJ took the first rep and VG the last one ... and the fact everyone that played with OBJ said what a great teammate he is and the more star power u have the more built in credibility u have ...

I think OBJ is a diva and has issues ... i thought he was GREAT last year as far as his behavior is concerned ... the watch and shoe thing were BS and moronic ... its part of why i think he’s a diva but that had zero to do with what happened in between the white lines ...

No one is saying that Baker is completely at fault. The problem is that the guys you are responding to freak out every time one tries to have an intelligent conversation about the dude. I posted stats of Baker's season and 888 freaked out about my "agenda."

They also take statements and expound on them and turn them into lies. For example, devide says I put half the blame on Baker for the team being undisciplined and cocky. That isn't true. I mentioned him in the fact that he was part of that problem last year. 888 says things like I claim that people don't put any blame on Baker. Another lie. I have said that people make a lot of excuses for Baker. That's not the same thing. They do that to discredit the poster. It happens over and over and over again. And they get away w/it and some of us know why.

I don't know, bro. Maybe you are right. I just think that Landry is more of the outgoing, leader type person and OBJ is more quiet and introspective.

I don't think Landry took a back-seat in terms of leadership to OBJ last year. I don't even think OBJ wants to be a vocal leader. I think Freddie wanted Baker to be the leader. I understand that because he is the qb and has a strong personality. I also think that he didn't handle it well. The Duke thing, the Rex Ryan thing, the Daniel Jones thing, the Cowerd thing, the Grossi thing, the constant media battle thing, the wanting to fight a fan thing, the wife saying Brown's fans are idiots and front-runners thing, the beach thing, the 3-step drop thing, etc, etc, etc.

Teams can have multiple leaders, but in my opinion, I think Landry should be the guy who is the main leader because his head is on more straight than the others.

Not saying I am right or you have to agree........just stating my opinion.

Feel like Baker is working on his release time, gotta get the ball out a little quicker.

the question is: does this mean mechanics or recognizing defenses?

I always felt, within the first few weeks, he never was comfortable.

I’m still of the mindset that Freddie is the worst head coach we’ve ever had. No skill position player seemed to know what they were doing on offense (aside from Chubb).

Give Baker an offense he’s comfortable in, and he’ll get the ball out quicker. It’s not just reading a defense, it’s mixing that defense with your offense.

It’s as if by week 3, Freddie should have just grabbed the previous season’s playbook, because what he constructed clearly wasn’t something that fit well with Baker. Considering the entire offense flows through a QB, if he ain’t comfortable with it, better change the plan.

Early on, it was evident something was wrong, yet Freddie never adapted. It’s being the head coach of the sixers and having the offense predicate on Ben Simmons putting up isolation 3s as if he’s James Harden or something

In Freddie's defense, he did utilize more 12 and 13 personnel after it was evident that Baker and the OL were struggling w/11 personnel. Once again, 11 personnel packages were the most prevalent package in the NFL the last time I actually looked it up, which was last year when I started the Offensive Scheme thread.

I do not think Freddie was a good HC. Quite the opposite, but I think things are being exaggerated in that regard.

Maybe. By that time we were trotting out the likes of Demetrius Harris and Pharoh Brown. I liked Ricky seals Jones, but none of those guys were near Njokus level IMO. We never should have let go of Fells.

Anyway, either way, the offense had no chemistry and it was clear very early on that it wasn’t for Baker. I think the big mistake was that we didn’t recognize this earlier and adapt before the season began. It’s as if because we had OBJ and Jarvis, we would just make it work. Instead, it looked disorganized and underprepared.


People keep settling ultimatums and expectations before we’ve even held a practice this offseason. I saw on twitter Gil Brandt talk about major improvement or we won’t pick up his fifth year option. To me, this is nonsense. Barring an internal implosion where we have a top five pick, I see no point to that. And we can worry about that when the time comes. One thing clear with Andrew Berry is that he’s prepared. Preparation takes effort and organization . That’s controllable. Berry is the kind of guy who understands this

Who are you talking about?

Folks I see on Browns Twitter. I think the board a month or two ago.

Haven’t been on here as much lately. Was leading up to the draft, but once I go out to work at sea I have less time for the board. Twitter is much easier with the cellphone

Here’s what I read about Brandt

Thanks.

I'm not sold on Baker, but I think it is way too early for that kind of talk. We have a lot invested in him and should do all we can to support him these next two years.

I am sold on Baker. lol.

But other than that, i completely agree.


If he bombs out this year, and we end up 1-15 with Trevor Lawrence staring us in the face, sure, we might want to look for other options.

I really don't see that happening. At all.


Hopefully training camp starts on time, we get a full-season, these Zoom Meetings go as well as possible, and this team comes into this season prepared. I want to be the Titans Week 1, not the Browns (last season week 1). Disciplined and prepared.


I am excited about this offense though. OBJ and Jarvis on the outside. Hooper and Njoku as TE's. Nick Chubb in the backfield. Packages that sub in Hunt, Higgins, and Janovich. Our starting lineup looks pretty darn good.

If everyone can get on the same page, it'll be wonderful. Hopefully Baker connects with Odell this year, the same way he all of a sudden did with Jarvis last season.

Nick Chubb is perfect for this scheme too.

I'm already over Basketball and Baseball season. I really hope we can get a real football season this year though

One second you said your statement was more about Landry than Baker ... then you manufacture an excuse to air Baker's dirty laundry. On one thread Baker's wife's tweet are a massive disruption and on another OBJ gets a complete pass over the visor, the watch the shoes.... Maybe it's me, it seems manufactured and intended to antagonize and create conflict on the board. . . . . as for wanting him to succeed? Sure - #cantwaittillheisgone - that screams out to me that you want him to succeed. Pretty sure that if Baker had lead an expletive laden rally speech at last year's training camp on HBO - it would have been listed as an example of lacking leadership skills too.

I hope Baker plays like his rookie year - or better - and I hope players like Landry and MG and others (possibly including Baker) lead by example with regard to work ethic, conduct and applying themselves to all things 'Browns' ... I also hope that Stefanski can keep Baker's fire burning while also coaching him to create less opportunities for the media to show his worst side.

Jc

I think we’ll be able to tell by mid season if Bakers struggles had to do with Freddie more than anything. I expect him to be more comfortable and utilized more efficiently

- 2 new tackles ....
- a healthy OBJ and VG
- Hooper
- Chubb/Hunt

That’ll help any QB overcome a lot of issues ... I’m expecting big things from Bake this year .. On top of the talent listed above u can add the fact he has a major chip on his shoulder after being embarrassed last year and he has seemed to mature in his dealings with the press ... at least i hope he has and that’s a reflection of a more mature Bake ....

I really expect big things out of dude ... man are we loaded with talent on that side of the ball ... it all depends on our trigger man cause KEV CAN ...

Add in a healthy Njoku, a better situation at RG (starter will have been here since training camp), and a legit QB coach, and a vet backup QB

I agree ... I think some (including me) underestimated how bad our OT’s were going into last season. GRob simply was not good, and Hubbard was right with him. I think we finally felt the Joe Thomas loss last season ... Conklin and Wills should make us much improved

I expect Baker to have a turnaround year.

If not, we may have to find a way to draft Trevor Lawrence.

We do have Keenum if that counts for anything.

I am looking forward to seeing Baker light it up this year, with our new OL, and Hooper is going to be big for Him, and our Run game is really going to help open things up for him, Excited to watch him shut up all his critics ...

My hope as well Pastor.

First, I don't think this a make or break year. You don't give up on the #1 OAP after 3 seasons. You just don't. You allow the contract to expire, and then make the decision.

I do think Keenum counts for something. That was a darn good signing. We can win with that guy. He is a good example of a under the radar guy who has learned his craft.

No, he won't make the HOF, but a lot of good players don't make the HOF. Brian Sipe, Bernie Kosar just to name a couple of familiar names. Joe Theisman isn't in the HOF. Who wouldn't want that guy as QB??

Heck I think we are desperate for sports! ... I watched my first Nascar race yesterday. Had a wager on it too so that I had something to root for. Nascar !!! omg.

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