DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry & FO Continued

How can you be quicker than fast, yet be a vertical threat downfield?

You're not a liar Vers. From what I've seen you back up your statements with facts. Your one of the posters I enjoy reading and talking with even if we may not agree on everything.

I wasn't evaluating. I simply saw there was differences of opinion on what folks were saying about the 2016 draft class, so I typed in "ranking top wide receivers of the 2016 nfl draft" and reported what I saw from the various sites. I even provided a link to that page.

I was reporting. Not lying to make the FO look bad. And this is why I despise folks like Bull calling me a liar. I don't lie. Never have. And every other day he--and a few others--say I am lying. That leads me to having to take the time to prove I wasn't lying and then explaining why I posted what I did to guys like you.

Again, I wish the refs would step-in and stop these false claims!

Thanks Homes. I had to go through this same type of thing w/Bull the other day when he said I was lying about Schobert being ranked first in YAC. I had to go back and find the article and post it w/a link. It's a bunch of BS!

Some people you know are just going to land on their feet. Wolf was one of them.

[quote=PitDAWG]Some people you know are jus


No doubt. He has connections.

Build the network then let the network help you out when you need help.


Be it meeting contractors at the local bar or union hall who might need a good bricklayer or roofer, or a NFL FO executive who meets other GM's at the combine or winter meeting, you are always interviewing to some extent. At least the smart one's are. When you need a good job, a wide fishnet is a good thing.

You never know when you might be seeking a job from one of them.

You always like to hear, "heck yes, I always need a good person like you".

That's why some people seem to move around and stay level if not move up some, and other always seem to be starting over.

Good enough for the greatest dynasty of all time.

Not good enough for the Browns.

I would laugh if it didn't make me cry.

There's a difference between being a consultant and being within the FO.

Within our FO, it appears we wanted him to use specific processes. As a consultant, he can stick with his "process" and give NE his thoughts.

We want things to be repeatable so that we can constantly improve. His "process" might be less science and more art (he was allegedly the guy pounding the table for Takitaki in the 3rd round). Would've been nice to keep around, but he didn't want to do things Berry's way. C'est la vie.

Structure can be a good thing. We will see if this one is.

Other than name recognition, can someone really say what Wolf's strengths were or what he actually did? I think he'd have been nice to keep as a different perspective in the scouting meetings, but working under Dorsey and working under an inexperienced guy 5 years younger than him are different animals. It's not like we were going to be grooming him to be Berry's replacement.

Evidently he wasn't good enough for the Packers either since he came here from there.

It's just standard operating procedure. When you ride the coattails of someone in to a new job, and they lose the job, you are out as well.

Just the way it works.

There's a HUGE amount of conjecture in your post.

Didn't I present it as my thoughts?

Any piece in particular that troubles you and your friends?

Or does it make sense, but not fit your narrative, so you come up with a backhanded way to attack me instead of the way I've tried to arrange the pieces of information that we do have?

I'd argue there's no more conjecture in my post than the majority of posts on DawgTalkers.

At least I tried to stick to the topic instead of pointless jabs that don't really add anything.

Which parts do you disagree with or see as improbable?

It doesn't make any more sense than other pure conjecture. Pointing out it was pure conjecture isn't a jab, it's a fact. But people love to twist facts into something they aren't. Like you just did. That's a jab.

Actually, you make a good point. Under John he could be viewed as being groomed to move up. Under Berry, not so much.


As I said early this morning, when the top guy goes, the underlings he brought in usually do as well.

It happens all the time. People need to quit acting like this is a strange happening.

Browns announce new additions, promotions on player personnel staff

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...personnel-staff

Browns EVP of Football Operations and General Manager Andrew Berry on Friday announced numerous additions, promotions and title changes on the player personnel staff.

The following are new, full-time additions to the staff.

Kwesi Adofo-Mensah — VP Football Operations

Ryan Grigson — Senior Football Advisor

Charles Walls — National Scout

Josh Cox — Northwest Area Scout

Nate Sterken – Lead Data Scientist


Andrew Jackson – Data Architect / Systems Developer

Kevin Lewis – Software Developer

The following 20 have taken on new roles after their respective promotions and title changes.

Glenn Cook — VP of Player Personnel

Ken Kovash — VP of Player Personnel Process & Development

Andrew Healy — VP of Research & Strategy

Dan Saganey — Director of Player Personnel

Dave Giuliani – Director Research & Strategy


Mike Cetta — Director of Scouting Research

Adam Al-Khayyal — Assistant Director of Pro Personnel

Tyler Hamblin — Football Operations Coordinator

Zach Wigmore — Scouting Research Coordinator

Megan Rock — Player Personnel Coordinator

Shaun Herock — National Scout

Colton Chapple — Southeast Area Scout

Dan Zegers — Midwest Area Scout


Jimmy Noel — Northeast Area Scout

Branden Francis — Pro Scout

Rod Streater – Scouting Assistant

Joe Dever – Scouting Assistant

Debra Kruszynski – Executive Assistant Player Personnel/Coaching

Bradley DeAngelis – Director Football Information Systems

Zach Zelinsky – Senior Software Developer

"I am excited about the group," Berry said. "It was a very long process because we were diligent about a number of not only the senior-level positions but even entry-level positions. We did a lot of reference work. We did a pretty rigorous interview process and then obviously the work samples is really important for everybody that we would bring on board.


"I am excited because I think we have brought a lot of smart, talented people and put them in key roles. But also, everyone is not a carbon copy of one another – they bring different perspectives, different experiences, different viewpoints and that is what is going to push us to better decision making. We really are going to consider all the different perspectives and value them. That was a specific aiming point because I think that just helps us to be a better higher quality football operation. I think that is something that we took big strides in accomplishing this month."

Adofo-Mensah comes to Cleveland after spending the past seven years with the San Francisco 49ers. He was elevated to his most recent role, Director of Football Research and Development, in May 2018, after serving as a Manager of Football Research and Development. With the Browns, Adofo-Mensah will work closely with Berry and the rest of the senior football staff to contribute to all roster and strategy decisions. He will also assist Berry with the day-to-day operations of the department.

"I think he brings a nice blend of both an insider and an outsider perspective to football," Berry said. "I think probably the best part of him is just the person. He is humble, high integrity, a continuous learner, true growth mindset and he has fantastic interpersonal and people skills — in terms of someone who can be both a strategic thought partner with all the big decisions that we make, someone who has the capacity to be an outstanding manager as he helps run the day-to-day of the team, and then just someone who is going to get along with the really strong group that we have already. I think he is really a perfect fit to add to the mix."

Before entering the NFL, Adofo-Mensah was an Associate Portfolio Manager at Taylor Woods Capital and a VP/Executive Director at Credit Suisse as a commodities trader. Adofo-Mensah played basketball at Princeton, where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in economics. He received his master's in economics from Stanford.

"I came into San Francisco and was a clean slate and I got my football foundation put in by so many; Ed Donatell, Vic Fangio, Tom Gamble, Ethan Waugh, Ran Carthon, Tom Rathman and Bobby Turner, Kyle Shanahan, Mike Shanahan, Eric Mangini, Jason Tarver, Martin Mayhew and John Lynch. My football foundation has been put in by some of the greats and all I've done is try to learn and see the intuition put into it. I'm not the guy who's going to tell a traditional scout a trait is wrong or something like that. I know enough to ask good questions and see how we can get better information and make a good decision.

"Having been at the 49ers for a long time and especially these last few years, you see the benefits of working in an aligned culture. What Cleveland has been building for the last few years to this point of a completely aligned culture, I was really excited to come join that. Winning in a place like this would be something incredible where people care. They care about football on Sundays entirely on a level that's just inspiring. To come to a place and potentially be able to win, it was an opportunity I couldn't pass up."

Grigson spent the past four months with the Browns in an advisory role. He returns to Cleveland — where he served as a Senior Personnel Executive in 2017 — after working with the Seattle Seahawks as a Senior Personnel Consultant for the past two seasons. Grigson was the Colts' General Manager from 2012-16, a stretch that saw the team advance to the playoffs and win 11 games in three consecutive seasons.

"I'm just really, really grateful," Grigson said. "From the Haslam family on down. Everyone has been so open and collaborative and everybody has their own niche but they kind of just come together. It was neat to see them come together in the process leading up to the draft.


"I've told them I'm an open book and they're welcome to bounce things off me — and I know they're very open to that — just through things I've learned, the wisdom gained and trial and error, victories, mistakes, successes. I feel like I have an experienced background and I've been fortunate the vast majority of it has been with winning programs. I figure I can help in that aspect because I kind of know what it looks like. Whatever Andrew sees fit that I need to do to help us where we want to go, that's what I'll do."

Berry and Grigson, of course, have a relationship that dates back to Grigson's tenure with the Colts. Berry was elevated from pro scout to pro scouting coordinator in Grigson's first season at the helm.

"We obviously have a long-time relationship. He was one of the first people to make a significant bet on me early in my career. That is not the reason that he is here," Berry said, "He is here because I think he is very good. He has a very established track record as a personnel evaluator from his time in St. Louis at the time, Philly and then obviously, Indianapolis. General Manager experience, rebuilt the Colts into a winner very quickly, Executive of the Year. And that is something that is valuable to me."

Cook has been with the Browns since 2016, when he was hired as the Assistant Director of Scouting — a position that provided responsibilities in pro scouting, college scouting and scouting research. In his new role, Cook will contribute to all football and strategy decisions along with the senior staff while also leading the day-to-day operations of the player personnel department.

"One thing I've been fortunate is to be around a lot of good people, a lot of good football intelligence and knowledge," Cook said. "I've been fortunate to have a diverse set of experiences. Throughout my time in the league, I've worked in pro scouting, college scouting. When I came to Cleveland, I had an opportunity to take on a leadership role, experience the administrative piece, grow in cap management, grow across football operations. It's really been a nice trajectory in terms of my growth and experience since I've been in the league."

Cook came to Cleveland after a four-year tenure as a scout with the Green Bay Packers. Cook was a linebacker at the University of Miami from 2004-08 and was a graduate assistant for the Hurricanes before taking his first NFL job with the Colts in 2011.

"He is a guy who has done pro, he has done college, has a really good understanding of research, his learning contracts. I just think he has a broad skill set," Berry said. "He is a talented evaluator and he has got really great people skills. I think he will work well, not only managing our scouts but also our scouting research function, which is really a hybrid area between traditional evaluation and research and strategy and I think that is really important for the person that is going to run day-to-day personnel within the organization."

Kovash has been with the Browns since 2013, when he joined the team as the Director of Football Research, and most recently served as Vice President of Player Personnel. In his new role, Kovash will assist Berry and the senior football staff on all roster and strategic football decisions while also focusing on roster strategy, player personnel process, football innovation and professional development across all of football operations.


Healy has been in Cleveland since 2016, when he joined the team as a Senior Player Personnel Strategist. On top of his role as a contributing member of the senior football staff, Healy, who joined the Browns after serving as a professor of economics at Loyola Marymount University, will lead the integration process of data and advanced insights into all realms of football operations.

"I feel fortunate that I had a couple of years of first-hand knowledge on the track record with a number of our employees in football operations," Berry said. "I think it can be challenging when you have transitions, turnovers, a lot has been the case here when someone new comes in, they really get a 90-day sample and they may not appreciate what is already on hand. We have a number of really talented people across football operations already. I very much believe in promoting from within. That does not mean that we are not going to have external hires, in fact we have this cycle and I think that is healthy. But I know that we have really good people on hand and am excited to give them an opportunity.

"Quite frankly, I thought they did a really nice job this spring and am looking forward to seeing what they can do moving forward."

Unless I am missing something it doesn’t seem like we fired anyone besides the main three guys at the beginning. That is not much staff turnover for a new GM hire.

Seeing Grigson’s name as a former GM, it got me thinking: where are our old GM’s currently employed?

Sashi, Farmer, Savage, Dorsey, Kokinis, etc?

Sashi is in the NBA.
I think Farmer is unemployed.
Savage is a broadcaster and runs the Senior Bowl.
Dorsey is in his basement studying film.
Kokinis, have no idea.

Boy that's a list if there ever was one.

lol not a very inspiring list

Seeing Grigson's name made me want to puke. He is one of least-liked men in the NFL.

Link?

Yeah, i remember he wasn't well liked as GM of the Colts.

But, Andrew Berry attributes a lot to him in his start in the scouting world of the NFL.

Gotta take care of his guy i guess

Savage left running the Senior Bowl after 2018.

Who could forget Savage's time as GM of the Arizona Hotshots!

Savage is now a senior advisor with the Jets.

George Kokinis is Director of Player Personnel for the Ravens.

Ray Farmer interviewed for Texans GM job in 2019. Did not get it and is currently perfecting slow brewed coffee.

Sashi - Wizards
Farmer - unemployed as far as I know
Savage - he was in the AAF and he had been apart of Alabama’s radio broadcast
Dorsey - unemployed
Kokinis - Ravens director of player personnel
Lombardi - writer for The Athletic
Banner - unemployed
Holmgren - unemployed
Heckert - died a couple years ago

I don't know that he was one of the least liked men of the NFL. He was in Indy if I recall. He's been hired by a few different franchises, so somebody likes him.

that’s a lot of old GMs, let alone old GMs who haven’t done much in the NFL since leaving.

Kokinis is the lone NFL survivor haha

I have no idea if he was liked or not, but I think most believed he did a poor job drafting outside of his first year with Indy- at least fans do.

I'm actually happy his job is "advisor" to a certain degree. To me that seems a very loose job description and doesn't really carry any legit power and responsibility. More like someone with an elevated consultant role who is officially on staff. On the flip side, it proves the good ole' boy club is alive and well, unfortunately, and helping out someone who is career personnel guy regardless of being mostly unsuccessful. I think this is Berry keeping the guy employed who first gave him a shot as a personnel guy with Indy. Maybe there is a trait or two that he has traditionally done well with, but no one knows if that is true or not.

GMs, coaches, players - since '99 not a lot of former Browns personnel go on to greatness once axed. Shows a lot about the former Browns hiring/drafting skills

i cant think of too many players, coaches, GM, FO, etc that have gone on to do much of anything after leaving here since 99

I guess Mitchell Schwartz would be the best example?

It isn't. Berry probably already knew most from his last stint.


The other he knew from other stops.

I know Sashi is with a NBA team in some executive fashion. Savage is the color guy for Crimson Tide football games. A local station broadcasts all the games. As the eagle flies, Alabama is maybe 20 miles from here. As the ridge lines fall, more like a 40 mile drive.

This is a tri-state area. Mostly Vol hats, but you see tons of Georgia and Alabama fans. I mean a high percentage.

It pretty cool to be honest. You go in to a sports bar here and you see all kinds of games on the 50 TV's. Go in to a sports bar in Ohio, they are all Ohio State.

Ok, I get loyalty, but still, with multitudes of TV's available, there is some good football being played outside of Ohio State. You don't need 40 of 40 TV's showing OSU beating Toledo by 35 in the early 3rd Qtr.

LSU and Bama are playing at 3:30. How about putting that on one or two of them?

Cool story.

When down in Fla, folks complained they couldn't get any kind of sports coverage, everything was local and almost no national coverage.

When in Ohio, sports bars always seem to have a varied sort of games on the TV.

Man, that is a lot of VP's, Directors, etc. Is the ship to the Isle getting top heavy? Perhaps lost in the list were the additions to the data/statistics/analysis positions...

I guess we go in to different bars. My experience has been totally different. I have Browns season tickets. I go up for no less than 6 games a year. I get there on Saturdays around noon and hang at some pub to watch games.

I get it if it is a small place with 3 TV's, but if it is a real sports bar with multiple TV's, all don't need to be showing the same game.

h

When I was single I went to BW3 to watch the games... went to the same one every weekend.. but I typically still needed to ask the. To turn the Browns on....they always did... but since hardly anyone watches the Browns in Houston I'd always have to ask

Heckert was with a team until he passed away.

Broncos.

j/c:

GM Andrew Berry’s big moves, Jadevon Clowney situation: Let’s talk Cleveland Browns

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Talking to myself about the latest changes in the Browns’ front office:

QUESTION: The Browns seemed to promote and hire a bunch of guys to work for Andrew Berry. Does it matter?

ANSWER: It’s a fair question, given how fans have seen so many front office people come and go. Now the GM, Berry is on his second tour of duty in Cleveland. He was an assistant for former Browns Vice President (basically GM) Sashi Brown in 2016-17.

Q: So what? Brown is gone.

A: Let’s stop for a moment and direct this back to football. Did you like what the Browns did in free agency and the draft?

Q: I’m supposed to ask the questions, but the answer is most fans liked it. ESPN rated the Browns as having the NFL’s second-best offseason.

A: So the answer is yes. The man engineering the drafting of Jedrick Wills Jr., Grant Delpit, Harrison Bryant and the rest was Berry. The signing of free agents Jack Conklin and Austin Hooper were driven by Berry. Understand Berry is very collaborative. Coaches, analytics, old-time scouts all had significant input. Berry hates the idea of this being a one-man show, because it’s not.

Q: The new front office seems to be off to a strong start. What does that have to do with changes?

A: In 2016, Paul DePodesta was hired by Brown to be the chief strategy officer. He still has that job, only with more influence. The hiring of Kevin Stefanski and the return of Berry in January were moves favored by DePodesta. Entering his fifth NFL season, DePodesta is no longer “the Moneyball Baseball Guy.” He now knows a lot about the league.

Q: But the analytics...

A: For analytics to work, it requires patience. One problem with the DePodesta/Brown/Berry front office in 2016-17 was they were all new to their jobs. They made rookie mistakes. And they had a coach in Hue Jackson who didn’t buy into the analytics-based building of a franchise.

Q: The dreaded “alignment” issue.

A: Exactly. It appeared the Browns were doing things backwards when they hired Stefanski first as coach, then went shopping for a GM. Ownership was tired of feuds between the GM/head coach, or a GM (John Dorsey) hiring an overwhelmed rookie head coach (Freddie Kitchens).

Q: Wasn’t it backwards?

A: During the 2019 coaching search, Berry was in Dorsey’s front office. He got to know Stefanski. Both men realized they had a lot in common and believed they could work together. This was in January of 2019. Berry went to the Eagles a month later as an assistant to GM Howie Roseman.

Q: Your point?

A: Berry learned a lot in Philadelphia. You must have a strong scouting department. Berry started his career as a scout with the Colts. He has promoted Glenn Cook to VP of Player Personnel. Cook was a pro scout before and is now in charge of pro and college scouts. They hired former Green Bay scout Charles Walls to serve as what is called a “national cross checker” in baseball. Cook is a former Miami Hurricane linebacker. Walls played at Old Dominion.

Q: I’m listening...

A: Think about the Indians. Chris Antonetti is the team president. Mike Chernoff is the GM. Neither were pro players. Neither were scouts with radar guns stalking dusty diamonds to find players. They grew up in “baseball operations" and minor-league systems in the front office. They are big-picture guys.

Q: The Browns are modeling themselves on the Indians?

A: Not exactly, although the Browns admire how the Tribe competes in a league without a salary cap. DePodesta began his career with the Indians. But Berry saw a lot of this comprehensive approach to the front office with the Eagles. This gets very complicated because the days of a GM, head coach and some scouts getting together to run things is over.

Q: What about Kwesi Adofo-Mensah?

A: He is Berry’s top assistant. He came from the 49ers, where his background was in analytics. He was director of research and development. The Browns are extremely high on Adofo-Mensah. Berry met him a few years ago at the NFL combine. They became friends. Adofo-Mensah has family in the Philadelphia area. When he visited them, he’d also have lunch for Berry (who was working for the Eagles).

Q: But he’s not a football guy! Neither is Berry!

A: Berry played at Harvard and scouted for four years. He has a football background. The Browns believe Adofo-Mensah is the kind of big picture guy who can eventually be a GM. Think about baseball or even the NBA, where GMs often don’t come from the locker room or coaching. It’s a different world. The GM gathers information from scouts to stats to medical to psychological testing. It’s like being a CEO rather than a specialist in one or two areas.

Q: They have a lot of young guys, right?

A: Berry is the NFL’s youngest GM at 33. Then there’s Adofo-Mensah (38), Stefanski (38) and Cook (35). I see pro sports evolving almost like medical school. They are getting smart people and training them. Technology plays a monster role.

Q: So you buy into all this?

A: I’m fascinated by it because I’ve seen it work in the NBA and MLB. The Browns do have veteran NFL GM Ryan Grigson as “senior football advisor" to Berry. He is old school. Berry worked for him in Indianapolis. I like what they did in the offseason. I like how Stefanski and Berry appear to have the same idea of how to do business in Cleveland.

ABOUT THE BROWNS

1. One NFL source told me “don’t believe everything you read” when it comes to the Browns and Jadeveon Clowney. ESPN reported the Browns have made Clowney the best financial offer, but the free agent defensive end doesn’t seem interested.

2. I couldn’t get any more information. Not sure if the source was casting doubt on the Browns having the highest offer, or Clowney supposedly not wanting Cleveland. I do sense this is a wait-and-see deal. Teams can’t have regular mini-camps because of COVID-19.

3. I believe the Browns are interested in Clowney. I believe Clowney’s agent (Bus Cook) hasn’t shut the door on the Browns. Cook also represents Myles Garrett, with whom the Browns are talking a contract extension. In other words, I don’t see anything happening soon.

4. Baker Mayfield said all the right things about the new offense and coaching staff. Usually, the Browns would be on the field for minicamps. The media would see some of the workouts. There would be a sense of how Mayfield is learning the new offense.

5. Video work and virtual teaching is important, but many people “learn by doing.” That’s how QBs and receivers develop a chemistry on passing plays. There are lots of other examples. The Browns have asked Mayfield to take shotgun snaps with his left foot forward, rather his right. He can practice that to an extent in his back yard, but being on the field means so much.

6. Defensive coordinator Joe Woods sounded impressed with Olivier Vernon’s attitude. Woods said he believed Vernon was past his knee problems of a year ago that cost him six games. But the Browns won’t know until they have a real training camp at some point.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/05...and-browns.html