DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns receivers meeting with Baker Mayfield in Austin

I'm saying that Baker played in an offense that was less NFL like than Kizer did. I am NOT saying that Baker is worse than Kizer.

So again, which offense was more NFL like between ND and Oklahoma? It's not a hard question.

Bard:

Really?

Just clicking btw

Sorry, we are going to disagree here. You know this is my biggest criticism of Baker. I just don't see the clutch gene. The "put the team on my back and make a play regardless of outside circumstances" gene. I just don't see it. If you believe in the psychology of things, we've all known Michael Jordans who refuse to lose and always make big buckets in those pickup basketball games, regardless of how tight the game is. And we've all known the guys that play great when things are going great but really tighten up when it's crunch time. That's the way I see Baker. Maybe I'm wrong. But I go back to the UGA playoff game to multiple instances in his short NFL career. Baker plays great when his confidence is high and things are clicking. And he really plays great when he's in front. He can pile it on with the best of them. But I don't see a calm, cool, win the game at all costs guy on the field. I see a guy who tightens up and doesn't make the big play.



That might have been harsh. But my bigger point was even if he isn't headed to the HOF, he's good enough to win with and continue to develop and stick with. That's been my point throughout this thread.

As a Browns fan nothing would thrill me more than Baker turning into the next Drew Brees, delivering some championships, and having a bust in Canton some day. Man, I hope that's what happens. But I'm just trying to be objective at this point in time. I do think we should stick with him barring an absolute collapse this year. I think there is a ton of talent there and a ton to work with. I think some signature wins would go a long way to him building some confidence and maybe developing that clutch gene. I also think he needs to work at the game much harder from the cerebral side then the physical side. But I am in his corner and not giving up on him even if he has an average to below average year this year. It will be the popular thing to do, but I don't think it would be wise.

I loved Johnny.

He had all the tools you'd want in a quarterback. Except one.

Johnny had 10x the ability of Hoyer and I argued for his playing time.

I'm not sure Johnny could ever be ready for the NFL.

I still love Johnny.

You're referring to the Rose Bowl, I assume.

I would argue the opposite of the same game. Oklahoma shot out to a sizable lead. I remember the Georgia defense shutting down the Oklahoma offense in the second half and actually took the lead at one point. I believe it was a Baker interception that helped Georgia take the lead. Baker then put the team on his back and he lead them to a game tying touchdown when it looked like all was lost and Oklahoma could do nothing.

Oklahoma had the lead. Georgia dominated the second half. But Mayfield and his team fought back. I was sad to see them lose, but it was this game that left no doubt in my mind that Baker was the pick. Georgia's defense was awesome and didn't give up many points that year in any game. The Baker-led Sooners put up 40-something.

I don't want to hijack the thread...well I guess I'm too late for that.

I wanted nothing to do with JFF. It was his sophomore season at A&M, an away game. On a broken play in the red zone, he pulled it down and ran for a TD. The crowd was booing and jeering him, so he did his famous money fingers, drawing a flag. As he came off the field, Coach Sumlin came onto the field to coach him about it, and Johnny walked right past him, didn't even look at him. I knew, in that moment, that I wanted nothing to do with JFF.

Precisely. Johnny didn't want to learn how to play football until it was too late.


A lot of the stuff you read about who people think Baker is, Johnny was.

ND clearly ...

Thats one part of the equation ... u also have to consider the following when deciding who was more NFL ready:

Kizer spent 3 year in college ... Bake 5 maybe even 6 ..
Kizer started just shy of two years .. Bake started 3+
Kizer STUNK and was benched his last year ... Bake was a heisman finalist and may have won it ... i think its a bs award and don’t follow it ...
age

Kizer should not have come out .. he was no where’s ready ... Bake was well done ... *L* ...

So your right based on offensive style Kizer had more experience ... factor in everything else and Bake in a landslide was way more ready ...

I have ZERO PROBLEMS with how Hue handled Bake ... Kizer may have been his best option but that boy was no where’s near ready bro ...

I consider myself a good writer. I've been published and even made money from writing. However, I must be losing my communication skills.

I am not trying to say that Kizer was better or as good as Baker. I said that folks are saying one guy was hurt because he started as a rookie and another guy was hurt because he didn't start from day one. Makes no sense. They also are ignoring that Mahomes sat his first year and his career wasn't ruined. I just think some people are making as many excuses as they can for Baker.

Your having a different discussion than i thought u were ... i hardly read device for many reasons and when u start down rabbit holes with him or any of the other members of yours posse i don’t read most of your replies to them ...

I had no clue the context of your question ... i just answered it from my perspective not the flow of the thread ...

It has zero to do with your communication skills ,,,

And every about situation is different ... i have zero probs with how Hue handled Bake ...

j/c

It appears that more clarity is needed surrounding my comment about Baker not getting any 1st team reps his rookie year.

My statement above is one of many that I posted to remind us just had bad was the situation that Baker was brought into. Epic-ally bad.

My issue with him not getting any 1st team reps is not to state whether it was good or bad for Baker OR to compare him to any other QB...EXCEPT for Tyrod Taylor and in the context of the terrible situation he was brought into. Meaning the clown HC who was driving the bus who somehow didn't see the obvious difference between Baker v Tyrod. It was and is rather astounding. Not so much that Tyrod was handed the starting job before TC, but that the clown wouldn't even give Baker a chance to compete. What we saw in the Jets game HAD to have been seen by the players in practice. The difference in their abilities was more-than obvious.

Lastly, to those who claim that we should expect Baker to be able to overcome obstacles in his way...what would you call his 1st game experience? Did he not (right-then-and-there) demonstrate his ability to overcome? How about his record-breaking season that followed his 1st game? His entire first year was "less than perfecct"...and year two actually got worse.

My confusion stems from me not thinking the Kizer and Baker situations are comparable... so the part about "Hue did one thing and people gave him grief and then did the other and people still gave him grief" doesn't really ring true for me.
If Baker took 1st team reps as part of being thrown into the fire, then I can clearly see your argument. That's a standard "thrown in to the fire" situation. But he was thrown into the fire after not getting 1st-team reps prior to him taking his first NFL snaps. That's a whole extra layer of difficulty (on top of just being a rookie QB coming from a non-pro O).
Kizer, despite coming from a college that run a pro-style O, was well-known that he wasn't ready, and needed to sit and learn. The subsequent season confirmed that.
Because of that, I think people can "have it both ways". Both were the wrong decision.

The fact some people aren't realizing the difference between Kizer's situation, and Mahomes situation, and Mayfield's situation is really mind boggling.

You don't "read me" because you don't like objective opinions. If they don't match your opinions, you tend to ridicule folks. Much like your friend over there.

Some people just can't handle the truth.

I do.


Baker was named #2 fairly early as I recall.

I think #2 has to have some reps with the 1's, you know, just in case he has to go in to the game if #1 is hurt.


Makes sense to me.

Has ANYONE said Baker was hurt because he didn't start week 1?

I have not seen that - maybe I missed it or maybe this is another one of those arguments against something nobody ever said?

I've said and I have seen others say that not giving Baker ANY first team reps was a bad move, and as it turned out when he was thrust into the game due to injury it made it a "bad situation" ... arguing that it was anything but poor prep/situation seems unreasonable.

My recollection was that Baker received very little to 0 reps with the 1's. Tyrod was also new to the team/system, and had to get up and running. This is based on my memory, which has a spotty track record, so feel free to correct me if needed.

I see you are back to names and have decided to forego how the philosophy of playing rookie QB's differs. I guess Baker is better than Mahomes too and he sat for 15 games....

Never mind. I may as well talk to a wall.

There's nothing "objective" about most of your opinions. I mean if we're talking about truth here.

I agree with that part ... Hue would have been smart to wait til we closed off practices to the press because of the sideshow it would have created ... but there was no reason Bake should not have gotten some reps with the 1’s ... that part was dumb ...

I was talking about naming TT the starter for the year ... i always would rather have a rook sit a year ... to me thats the way to go ... i think Cinci made a mistake getting rid of dalton ... i think they should have let him start this year and let Joe sit a year ... thats just my preference ... either way can work as long as u don’t ruin him ... Rosen may very well stink but he has not had a chance yet ... he’s played behind brutal OL’s w/o much talent around him ...

I've said Hue mismanaged both Kizer and Mayfield. Mayfield wasn't "hurt" by the mismanagement.

Kizer was no where near ready to take the field. He was awful in the preseason. Kizer wasn't the best QB on the team.

Mahomes was not ready to take the field. He sat for a year behind Alex Smith. At the time Mahomes wasn't the best QB on the team.

Mayfield was ready to start if needed. The coach chose otherwise. Mayfield was the best QB on the team.

Kizer needed to sit.
Mahomes needed to sit.
Baker didn't need to sit.

This is only being talked about because there are some people who don't believe in Baker. That's fine. No problem there.

Calling people out for complaining Kizer played and Baker didn't is disingenuous and a lack of understanding the situations. That was my beef.

I cleared the air, but you'll get the same fellas trying to ridicule everyone else because the difference of opinions.

Btw, I don't think it's an opinion that Baker and Kizer were in different situations. I would consider that fact.

Moving on.

Sitting behind Alex Smith (5 years in KC system with success) vs sitting behind Tyrod Taylor (1st year in CLE) is entirely different, in my opinion.

It is actually assure, not ensure or sure. Just saying...

I thought it was insure.

Negative, ghost rider.

Are you sure?

I can assure you that I am sure.

Okay. We are just going to have to disagree. But, you made new friends. Well done.

But to ensure the proper message, I'm sure that assure is right.

For sure.

That's what it's all about!

Don't forget to drink your Ensure®, and pay your insurance.

This whole - hole - thread reminded me I need to pay my insurance, ensurance, assurance bill.

There's a song about that:

I don't disagree. Let Dalton start a few games, then ease Burrow in....kinf of lie Bernie and Gary Danielson.


Gary has gone on to have a great career with CBS announcing the SEC game of the week.

Dalton is with the Cowboys

Yeah but still

Outstanding guys! Looks like I'm too late to the party though...lol

j/c:

This video actually makes me feel better about Baker and the Browns moving forward.

There was another video from someone named Tierney or something like that and Tiki Barber that was criticizing the new Baker. I am not going to post it because it was pure BS. I actually like what I am hearing from Baker. I think his game will improve if he matures and acts like an adult. I totally disagree w/the take that Baker being quiet will hurt his game.

Last year at this time, I tried to warn folks that I wasn't happy w/how Baker was handling the off-season. One poster sarcastically said: "the season is doomed" and the thread went off the rails. We saw how that worked out. This year, I am liking what I am hearing and seeing regarding Baker. He might have a huge year.

I'm still not sure if he can go through his progressions fast enough, but I think they are trying to correct some of his mechanical issues and will design the offense to fit his game. Not sure if it is sustainable, but it's a start. More importantly, his attitude seems much better.

I'm telling you guys this now.............if Baker plays well this year, the Browns will be a playoff team.