DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk K-9 Consensus Would you say it?: Black Lives Matter

Let’s discuss this. Would like everyone to explain their reasoning why they voted.

We’ve done tough conversations here before. Let’s try them again.

Would you say Black Lives Matter (either in-person, typing it on social media, etc.) without adding other “x Lives Matter” that would follow your statement? single choice
	Yes
	No
Votes accepted starting: 06/01/20 03:21 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

I would and have said it as attaching anything after the statement actually takes away from the main point.

If we can’t say something matters without attaching something else to it, then we show it truly doesn’t matter to us.

It’s sort of like John Mulvaney and his bit about the n-word vs the word midget. Look it up.

Would I say "black lives matter", without having to add "so do cops lives, white lives, etc"

Of course.

I see it the same way as you do, but opposite. I think saying 'Black Lives Matter' takes away from the fact that we are all people, we all matter the same. Nobody should matter less and nobody should matter more.

I agree with you that saying BLM and then tacking on xLM does kinda take away from the main point.

Black lives matter.

I appreciate your honest reply and It’s good to see you’re really reflecting on it.

At one point in our country it was offensive to say “slaves should be free” but now its common place.

Question: Do you formulate your lessons this way w/your students? I hope not and I wonder if that is why you ended up in Alaska. You are severely limiting the choices, free speech, and objections of those who reply. Worst of all, you are negating the true exchanging of ideas, debate, and discussion and instead, forcing your "students" to navigate a very narrow and rigid course that does not promote learning, but instead, forces them to think the way you do.

In many ways, you remind me very much of those you despise. Controlling, rigid, limited, biased thinking that demands that we think like you do instead of promoting independent thinking and looking for real solutions to our obvious problems.

I, for one, will not vote in your rigged poll.

Educational psychology taught me to ignore such behavior as this, but I'll make one final point till you're ready to discuss the subject at hand.

You try so hard to be this:


When really:


And honestly you're just this:


And until you can compose yourself in a manner where we can discuss and it not be "follow my rules and worldview or else I'll come at you with logical fallacies based in ad hominens", read this thread in learning how to talk about complex subjects. We did this a lot while you were in exile away from DawgTalkers.

Black lives matter. Yes I have and would, depending on the situation. I would also say at times All lives matter, or blue lives matter, once again depending on the situation. So just put me down as a YES and as a NO.

Sure. Saying "black lives matter" does no harm.. it's true, they do matter.. and saying it, without qualifiers, isn't a problem for me. Whatever somebody might INFER from that is on them, not me.

I would not have said that a couple years ago. I was opposed to it for a good while, I inferred by addition.. "... more than others" to the end of it. I was adding that in my own head, not them. I was wrong.

Why would you feel the need to add another statement after saying Black Lives Matter?

Credit to Grateful for posting this in the other thread.

It sums up the entire argument in one nice swoop.

I think that's the major stumbling block for many when it comes to saying or thinking about Black Lives Matter as a statement or movement.

It's been easy for me as I'm younger, born into a generation which continually advocated for the rights of minority groups (no, not discounting your generation either), sought to learn more about others different than me from the very source of life experience, and knowledge just became power.

People are naturally afraid of what they don't know. If we took the time to learn about different causes and movements, there'd be less fear and incendiary actions.

I don't think his intent was that he would add it after "BLM".. it was that in other situations, different circumstances, he would use those other sayings at appropriate times.

My own opinion... leave "Black Lives Matter" alone. It has an origin, it has a meaning..

I'm all in favor of showing love and appreciation for all people.. I'm in favor of showing love and respect for the police when appropriate.. but come up with a different phrasing.. leave BLM alone.

That's what I was thinking as well. I'm sure GM will be back.

It's hard for me to watch that style of preaching, but I did a 'huh!' when he mentioned the "blessed be the poor" part. That snippet right there really boils it down well.

At one point in parts of our country it was offensive to say that slaves should be free. Never forget that many people, of all races, lost their lives fighting for the emancipation of the slaves. Literally brother fought against brother, and father against son, to free the slaves.

j/c:

I think it's pretty easy to act enlightened on a message board. I think it's easy to try and label folks if they don't agree 100 percent w/what the speaker is saying.

I think "acts" are a greater testament to how committed one is to a cause. And I am fairly certain that no person on this board has done as much for the black community as I have. And I'm tired of hearing crap from those who just talk the talk and don't walk the walk!

I also think that some well-meaning, but narrow-minded folks often do more harm than good when trying to promote better treatment for minorities.

Blacks are like whites. Wanna know why? It's because they are human beings. Each of us has good and bad qualities. Each race has good and bad people. Broad labels does nothing but further the divide because it "separates" us as human beings and categorizes us by something as unimportant as skin color.

I know a lot of blacks. There are a lot of good ones and bad ones, just like w/white folks, cops, religious folks, men, women, etc. I taught w/blacks. I coached w/blacks. I was a teammate w/blacks. I educated black children. I coached black athletes. I talk to black people in our community when I am doing charity work. Some of them are idiots and bad people. However, the majority are just like I am. They don't go around pointing fingers or labeling entire groups of people. They don't want handouts.

They simply want to be judged for who they are as a person. They don't need some bleeding heart making excuses for them. That's just as demeaning as not treating them fairly or equitably. Treat them as equals and hold them accountable. Most blacks are perfectly fine w/that.

Stop widening the divide and concentrate on narrowing the gap. We'll all be better off.

Have you done more for black Americans than the black Americans on this very forum?

Some look to divide and conquer. Others, look to unite and build. The cool part is that we have the right to choose what kind of person we are.

There is a song that keeps running through my head when I read this thread. It's called "Sheep." Here are the lyrics that play over and over as I contemplate the intent.


Lo, we shall rise up
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water

Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream

Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead
You better stay home
And do as you're told
Get out of the road if you want to grow old

After all, sheep are wanna-be dogs. Meanwhile, the Pigs are left to their own devices as us lower class animals continue to feud w/one another.

This is exactly how I read it, as well. And you know what? I'm of the same mind.

_________________________


I won't be casting a vote in this poll. My life is my vote. This is a thread for those who don't live my day-to-day.

This slogan isn't for me.
This slogan is about me.


Carry on, everyone.

Because it's based on the contents of the discussion.

This is us now ..... conform or be cast out. He "resigned" from one job..... but I bet he wasn't really giver the choice ... and he was fired from another. Yep, like Rush (the band) said ... conform or be cast out.

Sacramento Kings play-by-play announcer Grant Napear resigns after 'All Lives Matter' tweet
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2925...es-matter-tweet

Longtime Sacramento Kings play-by-play announcer Grant Napear has resigned after tweeting "ALL LIVES MATTER" on Sunday in response to a question about Black Lives Matter.

"I want to thank the fans for their overwhelming love and support," Napear said in a statement Tuesday. "I will always remain a part of Kings nation in my heart."

Napear, who has called games for the Kings since 1988, was answering a question from former Kings star DeMarcus Cousins, who asked Napear for his opinion on Black Lives Matter.

"Hey!!!! How are you? Thought you forgot about me," Napear responded. "Haven't heard from you in years. ALL LIVES MATTER...EVERY SINGLE ONE!!!"

Cousins posted that Napear's response was expected. Former Kings forward Matt Barnes then called Napear a closet racist.

Napear later apologized, telling The Sacramento Bee on Monday that he is "not as educated on BLM as I thought I was."

The tweet Sunday came as protests raged across the country following the death of George Floyd. Floyd, a black man, died last week in Minneapolis after Derek Chauvin, a white police officer, kneeled on his neck for more than eight minutes.

"I had no idea that when I said 'All Lives Matter' that it was counter to what BLM was trying to get across," Napear said.

He also issued an apology on Twitter, writing in response to another user, "If it came across as dumb I apologize. That was not my intent. That's how I was raised. It has been engrained in me since I can remember. I've been doing more listening than talking the past few days. I believe the past few days will change this country for the better!"

Napear also was fired Tuesday from Sports 1140 KHTK, where he hosts a radio show with former Kings player Doug Christie.

"The timing of Grant's tweet was particularly insensitive," Bonneville International, the media company that owns the station, said in a statement Tuesday. "After reviewing the matter carefully, we have made the difficult decision to part ways with Grant."

He got fired for saying "All lives matter?!?" Freaking extremists drive me nuts.

This is not the first type of incident involving this announcer.

Saying all lives matter is now considered an "incident?"

When given the context of the situation? Yes.

I disagree. And the two players who called him out have had multiple "incidents" and were not removed from their teams because of them.

In my opinion, it makes more sense to fight fairly instead of blindly and w/malice. The latter just turns off the very people you are asking to help you.

I don't expect you to agree w/that and that's fine.

Black lives matter....but I voted no.

All lives matter, and me saying black lives matter in the context of your post somehow made me feeling as if I didn't feel that before.

It's just a slogan. You have to live it.

Some people wish to impose on the free expression of others and would have been better to served to have been a dictator in mid evil times.

Either that or stop drunk posting.

This is my answer... I used to be against it for the same reasons.... no longer #blm

Because while Black Lives matter, they aren't the only lives that matter.

Why does the fact that other lives also matter bother certain people so much?

It's not like words or empathy are finite resources. It's not like you can only care for one thing.

The implication that saying something other than only "Black Lives Matter" is somehow wrong is downright racist and part of the problem. It's silly. You're not only talking about black lives? How dare you?

Can I say that "Black Lives matter" by itself? Sure. Should there be some rule about it? Why?

It's a stupid reason for people to pick a fight with people who are trying to show care. You can't care for anyone else? Where is the logic in that?

Some people look for any excuse to be offended. It makes them feel righteous, when really it just shows their own lack of empathy.

Only wanting things to be about an individual group is an amazingly backwards way to try to bring about inclusion and equal treatment.

It's amazing that doing this over and over again hasn't done anything to abate racial tension...not. It's insane that otherwise intelligent people insist on repeating this failed methodology.

Treat our group different...but don't treat our group different. No cognitive dissonance there.

It's frustrating. I agree there are issues. Police reform should take place. Framing it as only an issue for one particular race causes more issues than it helps. Why frame it that way? As long as we frame issues as being about race, we'll have issues about race. Skin color shouldn't matter. A man was unjustly killed. I don't care what color his skin was. It shouldn't matter.

Insisting that we can only talk about one skin color reinforces the underlying (denied) assumption that skin color matters. Isn't that underlying assumption what we need to get rid of if we really want to put issues of "race" behind us?

Think about from this perspective Bull. Start with the premise that it's a given that all lives matter. But a segment of those lives are still treated unfairly. Maybe not by you but in general they are. One way to bring attention to that is to clearly identify the segment of people that are being treated unfairly and just let it stand like that. To amend the statement to all lives matter is a way to disregard what is going on. It minimizes the unfair treatment. That's all that is being said. Everyone knows all lives matter.

I liken this to other things in our society and wonder how anyone can think it makes sense.

When the Boston Marathon bombing happened, the motto was, "Boston Strong".

I didn't hear other cities in America saying, "Yeah, but we're a city in America, we are strong too."

“Breast Cancer Awareness”

“Yeah but what about all the other cancers?”

Just saw this: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/justice-smith-comes-queer-voices-172305807.html


Why would he feel the need to add anything to "Black Lives Matter."?

But those supporting breast cancer awareness don't complain if someone mentions praying for everyone suffering from any kind of cancer. Maybe they do. Still seems pretty dumb.

People don't need to mention other cancers, but people don't feel the need to act petulant if they are mentioned.

Picking needless fights rarely makes one new friends or solves any problems.

You can comment on inequality without demanding that only your group get talked about. It would seem to make more sense to talk as equals if you want to be treated as equals. The toddler logic of "everyone should only be talking about my problem" is something that people used to grow out of. It seems our culture doesn't lead to people that grow up any more and think about people other than themselves. Everyone thinks they deserve a trophy for showing up and that they should be treated special. Everyone else is special, too.

It's fine thinking that you are special. Everyone is unique. Thinking/acting as if you're (your group is) the only one that is special is where things get problematic.

Everybody has problems. Insisting people should only focus on your version of the problem doesn't fix the bigger/underlying shared problem. Problems are more likely to get answered when they are seen as everyone's problem. Saying someone should focus on your problem is psychologically the same as telling them it isn't their problem.

There is a problem. Why not let people who aren't African American feel like they are/can be invested in it?

Seems counterproductive to turn people away for wanting to be included.

Ending racism by making issues about race doesn't seem to add up. It would seem to make more sense to address issues irrespective of race to end racism.

Sadly, most people can't stop thinking in terms of race.

George Floyd's death should be looked at as a person being killed as much as, if not more than, a black man being killed. It shouldn't matter what color his skin was. Constantly focusing on the fact that he's black indicates that his skin color is an important distinction.

If skin color is an important distinction, then why shouldn't it be treated differently? Obviously, it should be treated the same as if it had happened to anyone else in the eyes of the law. But it's a catch-22. Don't treat African Americans differently, but you absolutely must say that it was a black life?

Putting more importance on the fact that he was black than the fact that he was a man is the underlying problem. Unfortunately that's kind of the way many people think, even about themselves. They see skin color first and it clouds their perception of everything else that follows. We need to get to a place where we see the man first and let that common ground be the starting point. It's kind of psychologically starting on the same side instead of on different teams. The idea of being on the same side or different sides shades the entire interaction. In another tragedy, African Americans and police frequently feel that they are on different sides. Frankly, I think it boils down to being because they don't think of each other as people first. It's sad that everyone's inherent humanity is often overlooked. I think it's because people have grown to love their labels, even when they don't mean something concrete.

Proud to be black. Proud to be white.... What do those even mean? It's just packaging. No action was involved in becoming those things. Yet, those are the ridiculously inherently racist things we accept as normal.

Proud to be a part of my community? Better, but still a bit problematic. Why? What's the action to take pride in?

It's these subtle ingrained patterns that we often don't stop to consider that unfortunately lead to large problems.

Yeah, we should all just ignore that George Floyd was black. Maybe we should ignore that Ahmaud Arbery was black. Or that the woman in central Park didn't bring up he was a "black man". Or that this guy was black....



Or this guy.....



Or... never mind, you either don't get it or don't want to.