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Sorry Diam, for as much as you accuse some of defending him blindly... this is the other extreme... You absolutely cannot, as a QB, put up 51 points, complete 60% of your passes, throw 5 TDs to 1 INT, and throw for 330 yards while making more bad decisions than good ones. I would say that is about as close to a physical impossibility as exists in sports.





I only watched the game once so I went and re-watched last night and kept tract ... I did it to see for myself weather I was being biased and judging DA harshly for his performance in that game ... and it turns out that U were right and I was wrong ....

he made 18 "plays" .... and only had 16 BAD THROWS AND DECISIONS .... guess thats ALOT CLOSER TO POSSIBLE THAN IMPOSSIBLE .... and that was with me giving him the BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT on 2 plays ...

One of them was when he threw the ball to Brey about 5 yards short on a 20 yard pass .. Brey was double covered and would have had no shot to catch the ball ... did he make a good decision and throw it away or did he just miss Brey ... seeing as how it was UNDERTHROWN and thats not his MO ... I gave him the benifit of the doubt and gave him a plua mark on that play ...

When I say "plays" I mean complete or incomplete passes (drops) where he put it where it could be caught and gave our guys a chance to make a play ... so he could get credit for making a play on an incomplete pass ... he also got credit for "bad passes and decisions" on 3 or 4 completed passes like the TD to Brey where he had to make a diving catch when he was WIDE WIDE OPEN .... I can give U a complete summary if U like ... one other scoring note ... there were a total of 4 plays where he got bad pass and bad throw on the same play .... U will give a couple examples of those down below ..

HERE'S SOME OF HIS "HIGHLIGHTS" ...

1ST Series ... throws behind BE twice on 5 YARD SLANT PATTERNS .....

2nd series ... 1st and 10 from the Bungles 27 ... ... Brey runs a skinny post (about a 15 yard route over the middle that has a slight break tot he middle in it) ... DA throws HIGH into DOUBLE COVERAGE .... (this is a bad decision and a bad throw) ... Brey gets FLIPPED UPSIDE DOWN by the defender ... HEAD OVER HEELS UPSIDE DOWN ... even if it was a good throw .. the Safety would ahve LAID HIS ASS OUT ....

then he misses a wide open JJ in the end zone .. and I mean WIDE OPEN ... it was teh play where the ball was knocked from his hands and he picked it up and rolled right .. it was a VERY VERY EASY THROW ... DA had ALL DAY as their was no one around him and JJ was ALL BY HIMSELF ... he throws it out of bounds and JJ couldn't even catch it there it was so far from him .. *L* ....

4th or 5th Series ..... 1 & 10 from the Bungles 46 ... he throws a 15 yard square in pass to Brey ... there is NO ONE AROUND HIM .. the closest defender is 5 yards behind him ... they show a replay and DA has a PERFECT THROWING LANE ... PERFECT .... he makes Brey make a diving catch .. AGAIN .... and if he hits Brey in stride he may have scored but he gets at least 10 - 15 yards and he was running away from the nearest defender that was 5 yards behind him .. and there was no one in the middle of the field .... even if he doesnt make him dive and just makes him come to a complete stop he gets 5 more yards easy ..

HUGE PLAY NEGATED due to innacuracy ... he got credit for a bad pass on this one .. even though it was completed it was a BAD PASS ...

3rd and 7 from their 26 .. same series ... throws the ball right to a LBer .... RIGHT IN HIS HANDS ... he drops it ... luckily the LBer was there ... cause if not a DB was next in line and he more than likely wouldn't have dropped it ... OH and just for good meaure ... if no one was in the way the pass would have ben behind Hieden ... *LOL* ...

theres plenty more plays like this ... PLENTY ... he actually played a BAD GAME ... he left so many points and plays on the field its DISGUSTING ... in our last scoring drive (WHERE HE MADE A GREAT DECISION AND THREW A BALL OUT OF THE END ZONE) after a 20 yard completion to KW down the middle with man to man coverage on a CB (about the 4th time int eh game we got that matchup) ... the announcer even said ... and this is pretty much a direct quote ...

"Its AMAZING how WIDE OPEN our recievers have been all day and how easy were making it look" ...

DA'S numbers looked GREAT but he actually didn't even play a good game ... he left way to much on the field .. WAY TO MUCH ... and on 6 or 7 plays he just got LUCKY AS HELL with great plays or DROPS by the D ...

Quote:

that's a bad throw, not a bad decision, I had not yet begun to address inaccuracy.




Gee thanks for clearing that up for me ...

DUH it was a bad throw and not a bad decision ... NO DUH ...

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But then again, I'm not opposed to the highly paid catchers of the ball making a play to help out the QB once in a while, in fact I sort of expect it... I expect they will do their part to make Anderson look as good as possible and they will do their part to make Quinn look as good as possible.. that's their job.





I agree 100% .... problem is they should not be given so many OPPORTUNITIES to do it in EVERY GAME ... in thsi game alone BE made 3 HIGHLIGHT REEL CATCHES ..... and that don't include the LUCKY AS HELL ONE where he caught it laying on his back ... and thats just BREY in one game ..

I also don't think the QB should set his WR's up to get KILLED on Avg. once a game .. in this game Brey and KW both missed plays cause they got shook up trying to catch HORRIBLE PASSES ...

Quote:

so consider this fair warning... any time Brady Quinn throws a ball, which is touched by a defender but not intercepted or one in which our receivers have to make a great catch, be prepared to answer to those who will call it "luck"... Because they will come find you...




*LOL* .. where have u been for the last 3 years?? EVERYTIME I am wrong they come find me .. I been getting my ass torched on here since day 1 when I'm wrong .... for two reasons ...

1. I'm hardly ever wrong .. *L*

2. some think i am a LOUDMOUTH OBNOXIOUS ASS .....

but thanks for the warning anyhow ..... *L* ...

Quote:

and this is just my opinion, but you won't really have an answer for them... at least not one that's consistent with your critique of Anderson...




Thats WRONG ..... if BQ is as LUCKY as DA I will say the same thing ..... last week U said it happens to every QB and i AGREED ... why becaue its true .. but DA has used up 2 or 3 years worth of good luck in a mere 4 weeks .. he leads the league and its not even close in dropped picks and GREAT CATCHES by his recievers ... THATS BEING LUCKY ... weatehr u want to admit it or not ..

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Quote:
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and thats why IF AND ONLY IF BQ IS READY .. HE GIVES US A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN NOW ...



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I agree, which is why I'm confused by who "U guys" are... because if I'm one of them, then so are you.





not even sure what your reffering to here as "U guys" ....

Quote:

However, I will give credit where I think credit is due and I think DA deserves credit for playing good games against the Bengals and the Rats




and thats your opinion .. and almost everyone elses .. NOT MINE .. and mine is right way more than most every one elses .. doesnt mean its so in this case .. but its true ..

The rats game he played OK .. his best game for sure ..

the Bungles game he made some plays but did not play good by any stretch of the imagination ... way to MANY MISTAKES ... physical and mental ..

Quote:

He even deserves some credit for his comeback effort against the Raiders even though we were down in large part because of his play.....





he absolutely deserves credit for his play in the comeback against the faiders .. no doubt ... but in no way that does make uo for his play that was a big part of the reason we were in that hole ..

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It just seems to me that you are going to find fault with anything he does




No not at all .. I will give him credit when it is deserved .. i won't give him credit just because we score alot of points in any one game or overall ..

The Cinci game is the perfect example .. he did NOT PLAY A GOOD GAME ... NO WAY .. even the announcer commented on how AMAZING it was how wide open our recievers were all day and how easy we made it look ...

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but when he plays a good one, I'm going to give him credit for it




I will to .. IF it EVER HAPPENS ...




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NRTU..

One thing we can agree on for now....Quinn obviously isn't starting this week in Miami, or we would have heard something by now.


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I have to believe he'd at least be a better back up than a lot of guys in the league today.




You are wrong. I am sure that if any team in the NFL believed Tim could be a capable backup... they would give him a call.

He has been rehabbing the shoulder for 4 years. TC was healthy going into training camp with the Jags.

Jules - You are right, there is no horse to beat...

FACT: Holcomb is still in the league.
FACT: Tim hasn't played a real down in 4+ years.

Spin it and twist it however you like - those are the facts. If it makes you feel better, Akili Smith and Cade McNown are out of the league as well.

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Maybe it's time for Tim to check out Canada to play some football, not that thier game is set up for pocket passers, but if he misses the game like he says, it's a option, wonder if he misses the game or the money that comes with it.

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You are wrong. I am sure that if any team in the NFL believed Tim could be a capable backup... they would give him a call.





Several have or have you been asleep.. and he wasn't able to do the job... but reports are it was his arm again I believe,,

Bottom line, some have looked at him each year since he left here,,,


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Your initial comment was...

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He'd at least be a better back up than a lot of guys in the league today.




If I am not mistaken, since being cut/injured in 2003... the Colts and Bears have had him in for tryouts and did not offer him a contract. They clearly preferred their existing backups.

Tim's agent faxed all 32 NFL teams and proclaimed himself healthy and available. This year's training camp he signed with Jacksonville. He was cut. They clearly preferred their existing backups.

This is not end of the world stuff. To continue touting Tim's 'potential'... you come off as a complete homer. Take the orange and brown glasses off and you will see that no one has interest in Tim as even a backup.

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The Packers had him, the Colts, the Bears also.. then this year I think it was either Miami or Jacksonville that had him in for a while,,

Basically, you comment was that you were sure some team would have had him in,,, Well, 4 have ,,,,,,, so what's your point?


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"A bigtime comodity?"

Why laugh and return with your same insulting attitude.

If you knew anything about football you would know that a QB often is over priced.

Well here you got a strong armed 6th round pick in his 3rd year getting his first starts. and he is 2-2 as a starter and has fluctuated from a 80-100 QB rating so far this season. With 3 games going against rather difficult defenses.

Am I saying he's great...than you absolutely haven't read a thing that I have written.

I'm stating that if he ends up with a winning record and a QB rating close to 100 in a full season. You mean nobody is going to consider him a hot commodity when they know we have a commitment to BQ as our Franchise QB? So who here is the silly one

Over inflate of yet another Browns QB.

What I am saying what Browns QB led us to a winning season (well TC n KH combination) but what QB led us to a winning season - playing in the season throughout and sporting a QB rating of 100?

If DA bombs and has a QB rating of 80 or lower - that is not what I'm talking about - of course he wouldn't be a hot commodity. But there is a possibility for DA to simply be DA and have yes, over-inflated stats - where do you get off saying that I'm over inflating my opinion of him. Just to be cute and annoying you got to start with this garbage.

It is you who are underestimating the benefits of success. And if I may repeat...We win .500 or better and DA has a QB rating close to or over 100 he will be deemed a hot commodity who would be available cause we have plans for another QB as the franchise.

I am fully aware that DA is not the one - and know exactly who he is.
Thanks for stating the obvious.


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I will type slower... the brown and orange glasses must make it hard to see the screen...

Your comment was that Tim would be a better backup QB than a lot guys currently in the league.

My point - You are wrong. Tim is a FA and no one is signing him to be their backup QB. Clearly TC would not be a better backup than a lot of guys in the league... or he would have a job now.

This really is not nearly as complicated or confusing as you are pretending it is.

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I've never really understood why this has always been such a big debate around here.

You are arguing over which is better. Cow crap or Horse crap.

Neither one has done anything after leaving here. Couch has been injured and Holcomb just sucks.

Why can't we just let it die?

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I will type slower... the brown and orange glasses must make it hard to see the screen...

Your comment was that Tim would be a better backup QB than a lot guys currently in the league.




I will too...

REPEAT after me...

It's BQ Time!!!

It's BQ Time!!!

It's BQ Time!!!


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My point - You are wrong. Tim is a FA and no one is signing him to be their backup QB.





Perhaps I should type slower,, Of course nobody is signing him,,, He's still not over the elbow thing,,, time for you to slow down, take a pill and chill out man.


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Diam, you are so wrong.

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Very funny, GET EMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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August 7 07 report Brady Quinn signed with Browns

9 weeks 4 days ago


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Ben Roethlisberger pretty good as a rookie

Peyton Manning bad rookie year
Carson Palmer did not play much rookie year
Troy Aikman horrible rookie year
favre mcNair rookie year? Leinart is injured
My point is most rookies don't win consistently. I will still hold out my criticism of B Q until the Houston Game is over 10 reg season games


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most rookies taken low did not have first and foremost the offensive line needed to put up good numbers. Ben, Marino did...if their OLs sucked so would have their numbers and results.

Most rookies taken low do not have weapons surrounding them. Manning flourished once they got Edge for him and Marvin have been together. And their OL gelled into a stellar unit - one thing Manning always had till this year - was his back covered.

JMHO


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Good post.

And to continue it's gist, (and I believe you've said all this before), Savage chose to not draft a quarterback high while the team was still in a flux with OL talent and playmakers.

Once he had Steinbach and Lewis in the fold, then drafted Thomas, I believe he felt he could then make the investment in a first round quarterback knowing he had the other pieces in place.

I give him a lot of credit for that. Had he drafted a quarterback high in the first round in '05 or even '06, the pressure to play him would have been great. Without the right players in place it could have been a recipie for disaster as some of the other QB's mentioned above.

The difference between this team with Brady Quinn and some of those other teams with those QB's is that this team has prepared for their quarterback in advance.

Quinn should still struggle like all rookies do, but he won't be doing it because his offensive line causes him to run for his life as we watched Frye do for two years. He should fare much better than those QB's who came onto a team who was not prepared for them.


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Michelle,, you really crack me up girl


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Quote:

most rookies taken low did not have first and foremost the offensive line needed to put up good numbers. Ben, Marino did...if their OLs sucked so would have their numbers and results.

Most rookies taken low do not have weapons surrounding them. Manning flourished once they got Edge for him and Marvin have been together. And their OL gelled into a stellar unit - one thing Manning always had till this year - was his back covered.

JMHO




I said that earlier but I guess no one felt like reading it.

I don't remember who had all the stat talk but I countered him and he didn't say anything.

Its pretty simple, DA's stats don't mean anything if you watch the game on Sunday, because overthrows, putting your team in a hole in the first half, throws that hit defenders in the hands, missed reads and what not do not show up in the stat line.

I wouldn't be posting in this thread or even "give a hell" (Quoted from Kellen 25-17 the path of the Soldier man) unless I was 99% sure that Quinn could lead this team to a .500 OR BETTER record THIS YEAR, and do a better job than DA.


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Michelle,, you really crack me up girl




Heh, I was just testing out our new smilies. Besides, it's true...that's what we all do around here, especially when it comes to QB discussions.


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OH man,,, that is soooooo true,,,,

And what makes it worse,, there are those that THINK they KNOW stuff... in reality, they are guessing just like the rest of us... Cracks me up.. There is a name for such people and it's


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Diam,
Good review of the Cinci game. I remember the game more for the incredible catches than great passes.

Sure, Anderson can look very good at times, but he can also look awful. Everyone can agree on that. To me, that seems like how a rookie QB would perform... Ergo, BQ may very well start unless DA has a "perfect" game against Miami. Why have a fully mature rookie playing when we can have a rookie with potential in the lineup?

I say "may" because I really have no idea about how BQ is performing in practice. I assume he is progressing well and his natural talent is showing through. If not, then keep DA as starter. In RAC I Trust

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Just a side note.... wasn't it in a blowout against Miami that our last "QB of the Future" got his first game time?


I really don't expect to see much, or any, of BQ this week unless the game is well in hand in the 4th Qtr.
I DO expect to see him in there against St. Louis.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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this is reply to eotab

You can say Manning flourished with Edge and Harrison but everyone remembers the quote "playoffs playoffs" by Jim Mora and that was after manning int's

I argue Manning didn't flourish until they got rid of Mora or got Dungee both individual upgrades for a double upgrade

the coaches job, regarding interceptions, is to put the quarterback(and receivers) ok ... to put the offense in a position to not throw interceptions. but the players have to execute it... have to do it


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This reply is for Winslow Bodden

how you feel is 99% sure Quinn leads to 500 or better

Exactly how I feel about Anderson and Quinn maybe too

I'm 110% sure the Browns will win the next 6 games be 8-3 going to Arizona and be 12-4 this year will win this division and make the playoffs. I'm sure Anderson is the man for the job for now


do I hear 111 %


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Kids your age should not drink or smoke.......


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Quote:

I really don't expect to see much, or any, of BQ this week unless the game is well in hand in the 4th Qtr.
I DO expect to see him in there against St. Louis.




I don't expect to see Quinn this year at all ..... barring injury.


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I'll chime in here since I was a supporter of putting Quinn in during the bye week.

DA had a very nice game against a rather poor Miami D.
Props to DA. He played a smart game and didn't seem to make his traditional '3 to 5 yards behind the receiver' passes...and didn't throw at heavily defended receivers.

DA, having played well, pretty much keeps BQ waiting in the wings.


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Savage chose to not draft a quarterback high while the team was still in a flux with OL talent and playmakers.

Very insightful...and true..its a FACTOR that most haven't figured out ..and he said most teams would take the QB and build around him..he wanted to get the pieces in place first...
I remember him saying they had Ellis Hobbs ranked higher than Frye but they took a chance on Frye because they didn't have a young QB...

Once they took Thomas and Quinn did the free-fall , the play to get him on .

Quinn should still struggle like all rookies do, but he won't be doing it because his offensive line causes him to run for his life as we watched Frye do for two years. He should fare much better than those QB's who came onto a team who was not prepared for them.
PLUS his receiving weapons are maturing and improving..

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Quote:

I don't expect to see Quinn this year at all ..... barring injury.




I don't either. My sig has been updated.


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Quote:

Quote:

I don't expect to see Quinn this year at all ..... barring injury.




I don't either. My sig has been updated.




I do expect to, because a decision might have to be made about Anderson this offseason. He may very well play himself into having teams trying to take him from us. Without seeing what Brady has "in game" a well informed decision can't be made. This is a good problem to have though. I'll tell you where I expect to see him, Pittsburg, or Baltimore. A couple of good defenses to see what he really has.


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And what makes it worse,, there are those that THINK they KNOW stuff... in reality, they are guessing just like the rest of us... Cracks me up.. There is a name for such people and it's




The beauty of this board is people that can stare facts in the face and due to ego... ignore them.

You were wrong 4 years ago. You are wrong now. Only ego prevents you from admitting it.

I won't further belabor the issue. Your credibility is what it is.

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't expect to see Quinn this year at all ..... barring injury.




I don't either. My sig has been updated.




I do expect to, because a decision might have to be made about Anderson this offseason. He may very well play himself into having teams trying to take him from us. Without seeing what Brady has "in game" a well informed decision can't be made. This is a good problem to have though. I'll tell you where I expect to see him, Pittsburg, or Baltimore. A couple of good defenses to see what he really has.





I agree, it's an issue we need to give serious thought to. Going into the off season with a DA as a possible commodity and not knowing what Quinn really is for us, is a potential problem.

DA is an RFA after this season, and if teams actively pursue him, it may be too good of a deal to pass up. At some point his value to our team maybe over shadowed by what we can receive for him, and use to improve our Defense. But this all hinges on what we have in Quinn, and how we will find out what we have.

It kinda feels good to be in this situation.


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You were wrong 4 years ago. You are wrong now. Only ego prevents you from admitting it.





God Merth, I was wrong about so many things 4 years ago,, to what are you referring?

Last edited by Damanshot; 10/15/07 10:28 AM.

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DA is an RFA after this season, and if teams actively pursue him, it may be too good of a deal to pass up.




...This is the part that excites me the most,......If DA continues to improve and can finish the season out strong,....this could get interesting.

....The Falcons swapped 1st rd'ers with Texas and received 2 second rd picks as well( I beleive) for Scaub........What could DA bring to the table if he gives a winning season and maybe even a P/O birth??

...How sweet it would be to gain a 2nd rd pick and possibly more going into next season...

I would think that a successful season by DA should be worth more than what Schaub provided while sitting on the bench in Atlanta.

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Quote:

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I don't expect to see Quinn this year at all ..... barring injury.




I don't either. My sig has been updated.




General comment here.

It's hard to remove emotion from any equation, especially when it comes to sports. Thus, it's easy to now believe that Anderson will keep Quinn on the bench the rest of the year. I mean, Anderson has now arrived, right?

I myself have to admit that, after watching that game, even I now doubt my skepticism of Anderson. Even before this game, it was nutz to assume that Anderson wasn't improving in some areas. He clearly was, even if he still did the same dumb things that he's always done. In my eyes, Anderson played his perfect game, and I can't recall a QB performance in the last decade that was as good as what I saw out of him.

Then I remembered that he was playing a Dolphins defense that is essentially as bad as our own (which is to say pathetic). We made Lemon look like an NFL QB. If he'd have had any accuracy at all, we could have lost that game.

I refuse to take anything away from what was essentially a perfect performance by Anderson. He'll never have Tom Brady's accuracy or smarts, and his receivers saved a couple of his throws, but it was an amazing game. Having said that, it's premature to believe that Anderson will continue to do what he did on Sunday. Every first-read that he made was either open or the right throw. The Dolphins weren't able to put enough defense together to confuse him, which is saying a lot *L* When he's faced good defenses, he's struggled. Some of that is to be expected, but my point is that his weaknesses are exposed when he plays a real team.

It's too easy to make assumptions based on beating a winless and hapless Dolphins team. I think it's too early to say that Quinn won't see the field. But I will say that Anderson has put doubt in everyone's minds, and that includes the coaching staff and the FO. Anderson made it very easy on RAC by playing lights out. RAC doesn't even have to consider Quinn at this point, and the team can focus on beating another winless team in two weeks. Our defense will get torched by the Rams, but at least we'll be able to trade TD's with the "Greatest Sham on Turf."

No, it's clearly not QB time, which is an amazingly good thing for this team.


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toad, as always, you've brought the merky problem into specific relief.. While being excited for a Browns win, it's gotta be tempered by the opponent.

A win like yesterday over a NE or Steelers, Dallas or the Colts,,, that's a horse of a different color... That's saying something! That's making a statement that the team has arrived.

Beating any team that we are supposed to beat doesn't really prove much.. except that we can beat teams we are supposed to beat.

Here's the good news, when a team is bad, as we've been, it doesn't beat teams it's supposed to.. But when a team begins to turn the corner, what do you suppose the first step is?

You guessed it, beating teams they are supposed to beat. It appears that we are beginning to do just that...


Bout time right?


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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",......If DA continues to improve and can finish the season out strong,....this could get interesting."

It already is interesting but let us not put the beans above the frank!

DA needs to continue to develop at the same rate that he has over the last several games. His arm strength seems to be a great plus in that he can make most all the straight line throws and deep balls downfield....while his decision making has been suspect in several cases.....the speed of the errant throws often elude the defenders.

What will it take to keep him here after this season considering his RFA status?


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