DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns receivers meeting with Baker Mayfield in Austin

Please explain.

It means I have absolutely zero interest in Cam Newton being part of the Browns. I thought he was a supreme athlete and an average QB even when he was "good" and he has not been good for a long time through injury and other factors. Baker last year as bad as he was, was probably a better QB than Cam is right now ... And add to that he is a diva which we certainly do not need. All just my opinion.

I am not a huge Cam fan. I agree that he is a diva. But, Baker is the biggest diva in the NFL in my opinion. Cam played in a SB. Cam was the league MVP. I wonder if you don't want Cam here because you are afraid he will be better than Baker? After all, your history says that you will go to great lengths to defend Baker.

Anyone else concerned that Cam was throwing to OBJ?

Not crazy about those optics.

I am also on record as saying I'm concerned about the Baker OBJ pairing. I don't think Baker excels in situations where he's not the clear alpha.

Would you rather have Baker or OBJ?

You asked a straight forward question and i gave a straight forward answer. Your reply speculating and questioning my motivation and reasoning seems aimed at antagonization. I'll pass, thanks.

Good point. I will step aside.

I think it’s more that they are both in LA and need to practice. OBJ worked out with Baker when he was on the Giants and it was meaningless. This is also meaningless.

I would rather have Baker.

They managed to make a sweet video though! Had the camera crew out to capture it all.

I thought OBJ was rehabbing; that's why he couldn't go to Texas.

If the Baker OBJ chemistry experiment fails it could derail the whole season.

Maybe the rehab is working? It has been several weeks since the Austin get together.

Maybe the timing just didn't work out, but I thought it was weird that he skipped Camp Baker due to injury and is now out there with Cam.

Depending on the relationship between Cam and OBJ, maybe OBJ is just trying to help Cam land a job by trying to raise Cam's profile?

Landry said the reason he didn’t go was because getting all his rehab equipment back and forth would be too difficult.

j/c:

This should be popcorn worthy. The Baker part starts at the 9:15 mark.

Thanks for sharing.

I don't think Baker is on a short leash. However, his leash is shortER now that 'Buddy Boy' Dorsey is gone.

I don't think he gets pulled though by a first year HC. Only way Baker sits is due to injury.

Mike Tannebaum, the former Jets GM who supposedly has ties to Stefanski was the first guy who reported it. The Wiley piece was over the top, but maybe Tannebaum knows something?

The amount of money the Browns paid Keenum makes one wonder especially since there are ties between him and Stefanski.

Baker was really, really bad last year. I don't think he was as great as some claim he was as a rookie. His stat line was middle of the pack. He talks a lot. Hasn't worked very hard. Seems to want things given to him.

I'm guessing, but I think the Browns have done--and will continue--to support him as much as they can. He has more weapons than any qb in the league. But, it's time to step up. If he doesn't.........I would not be surprised if they go in another direction.

Popcorn worthy? I don't believe so ... I think a better assessment might be to look at the other presenter's reaction who obviously feels the same way I do - this is slow-off season contrived controversy.

Yes - Baker played badly last year. Yes he needs to step it up. Yes if he plays as badly as last year he will be replaced.

Interesting that you don't think Baker's NFL record breaking rookie season was all that impressive stat wise. Are you saying that in comparison to other rookie QB's or in comparison to other NFL starters?

If Stefanski pulls Baker he's not the right coach for this team. Is anyone in this organization ever going to play the long game?

Keenum is not even in the same zip code as Baker as far as talent. It's not even really an option for Baker to be on a short leash as they will be throwing in the towel on him and the organization is again going to go in a different direction at quarterback and the insanity continues.

But on the bright side I guess my new team will be the one Baker is the QB for.

4 head coaches before his third year even begins. 4 offensive coordinators before his third year even begins. 2 front offices before his third year even begins. But Baker has a short leash? Maybe the Browns should have a short leash and be relegated.

Popcorn worthy. LOL

My final popcorn worthy thought is I've been watching videos like this for the last several weeks. Baker dominates the airwaves, and the guy hasn't really said anything. Meanwhile, Sam Darnold played good down the stretch last year against bottom feeders, and the world is all giddy about his prospects. When Baker did it it was caveated with "but he played bad teams". The difference is they like Sam Darnold, the person.

Bottom line, I hope you don't get your wish and Baker fails. I just don't believe that's best for the Browns. I don’t trust Tannebaum. Guy is a boob. I believe he does know Stefanski. I'd bet a large sum of money he didn't get this information from Stefanski. In other words, he's making it up.

However, if I'm appearing a little passionate about this, it's true I am. The Browns finally have a QB, and I'm very concerned they will Browns it up, regardless of what anyone says in the media. Kev and Drew will need to get their guy!

LOL...the Browns. One long ongoing sitcom.

I don't want Baker to fail.

Nothing going on,,, Sports talking heads need something to fill the dead space,, I doubt Baker is on any shorter leash than anyone ever.

I really don't understand all the hate on Baker. I blame OBJ. He didn't show for training camp. He didn't go to Austin to hang with teammates. He dropped passes,tipped passes for ints. Didn't run correct routes.

Baker tried to force throws to OBJ for whatever reason. Freddy?. He threw the ball to hard which caused it to go high. OBJ is still on the team . That worries me.

What have you done since you came here?

Would it take an elite receiver to replace him and his production? That said, I expect a much better season from both of these guys.

My biggest concern with OBJ has nothing to do with his talent or even his actions - watches, shoes, whatever. I don't think Baker's personality and OBJ's personality mesh on the football field. I think Baker thrives when he's the unquestioned top dog, the alpha, the dominant guy in the room. I don't think he can be that with OBJ. I don't think he knows how to be that with OBJ, and I think that affects his game. The only way this changes is for Baker to establish his dominance over OBJ on the field, in the huddles, in the meeting rooms. I don't know if Baker has it in him. The only other way it changes is if they trade OBJ. I'm very torn on that.

Some may label this a weakness of Baker, and I wouldn't disagree. But if you are trying to build the team around him and make him as comfortable as possible, you have to make him the unquestioned leader of the team. He plays his best when he's leading.

If Baker is not the unquestioned leader of the team in huddles, we are in trouble.

I don't see OBJ that way, I see him as a star player, but one with little interest of being the vocal leader.

So IMO Baker would not feel any animosity or threat from OBJ. Now Jarvis on the other hand I do see as a leader, stand up and challenge others type. And he and Baker seem to get along fine.

It might be different if Jarvis was a QB, but as a WR, Baker is not threatened by his leadership ability.

I don't feel Baker feels any animosity or threat from OBJ.

I don't think Baker feels comfortable being the type of leader he's accustomed to with OBJ. I don't think guys look to Baker as the unquestioned leader when OBJ is present. I think both Baker's and OBJ's voices carry weight, and I think Baker is more comfortable when his is the lone voice.

It's a comfortable-ness thing. Not threat or animosity. And I have no doubt both guys want to be on the same team together, make it work, and have success.

This is just my opinion putting on my psychologist's hat. No one's at fault here. This isn't anything someone is doing to someone else. Sometimes personalities and chemistry mesh. Sometimes they don't.

I agree with Florida regarding OBJ's style, in terms of leadership. He actually seems like the polar opposite of Jarvis, in that regard. I don't think he needs to be 'dominated' because he's not vying for a leadership role (at least a vocal one). He seems like a guy that wants to lead in terms of doing his job, and being a key cog in an explosive offense. I don't see him standing up and talking (outbursts don't count) to pull people in one direction.

So through that lens, what you're describing (re: Baker) is a guy that's intimidated by OBJ's talent/attitude. I don't think that's the case at all.

You know what, I think this is exactly what I'm saying. Not sure I would use those exact words, but yes the gist is what I'm saying. And I think because of that, it's harder for Baker to lead and be Baker.

j/c...

I think the "who's the leader" narrative get's blown out of proportion when it comes down to players succeeding on the field of play. It rears it's ugly head with Baker and OBJ because they both appear as alphas. The QB is the leader in the huddle and on the field. Even quiet leaders (QBs) who are overshadowed by a domineering personality usually just focus more on their job.

Furthermore, leadership at the QB level is a lot easier and clear-cut when there is strong leadership on the sideline. When you stack up everything from last year... the expectations for Baker, the expectations for the team, trouble instituting an offense, etc... the glaring shortcoming (to me) seemed to be leadership of the head-coach. I think he seemed more like "one of the guys" and expected Baker to straighten things out, Baker and Landry to get OBJ on the right page. As a HC - that was failure of leadership, and it's unfair to players to be put in that position.

Baker and OBJ are both in the "show me" phase now. Their individual talent and responsibilities to the team are under the spotlight. I think, as long as Kev is a strong leader, things will be fine, on a psychological level anyway, between Baker and OBJ.

I couldn't think of a good term, but I think oober has it right with not "intimidated"

I don't believe a word of that. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are correct. In that event how sad would it be that you are expecting your team leader to be a person whose ego is so easily bruised and fragile that he feels threatened in his ability to lead his team if anyone else on the team has a strong personality?

Like I said, I don't believe your assertion is true at all. But if it is, that's really sad.

I don't think it's as big an indictment on Baker as you are saying or "sad" as you say. I just don't think they're a good fit.

I hope I'm wrong.

I think Baker has an alpha persona but he's a little bit soft sometimes. I don't think these traits are game breakers. I am firmly in Baker's corner.

Just my opinion.

Do you have any kind of proof to lend credence to that claim? Articles? Quotes from players, coaches, etc?

If you don't, it's not a very nice rumor to start. There are plenty of people who do not like OBJ and adding one more thing for them to use against him is unfair.

I know you are firmly in OBJ's corner, and that he has no negatives in your mind.

I also know no matter how many times you claim to want Baker to succeed, I don't believe you. I believe your dislike for him supersedes your desire to see the Browns be successful.

So I am not surprised by your post. However, my post does not read like a rumor or a substantiated report or anything concrete at all. I don't claim any of those things. It reads as an observation and my opinion. I don't need to substantiate that.

It's an opinion - clearly stated. A lot like when you saying Baker "seems" to want things handed to him. . . . I don't agree with the opinion that Baker can't handle OBJ and that they can't work well together, I think it's just another thing to adjust to - another dynamic to figure out. Just like I think Baker will show everyone how hard he is willing to work this year and won't take anything for granted.