DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid-19: The Pandemic Where Facts are Political

trump alienated over half the nation and won.

j/c...

Poof! It's gone.

I hope come November he is. This country is literally dying for leadership.

the trump admin.......

Responsible for more dead American’s then WW1, Afghan war and Desert Storm put together. Dead first responders! Dead American’s! Dead American soldiers to Russian bounty money! While trump and his supporters seem to be cheering for Putin‘s new term limits until 2030+. Putin becomes more powerful by the day. Enjoy.

Pffft trump and his supporters.

j/c

GOP congressman calls on White House to disband coronavirus task force

Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) on Thursday called for the White House to dissolve its coronavirus task force so that health officials like Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx are prevented from contradicting many of President Trump’s "stated goals and actions" when it comes to the economy.

Why it matters: Maricopa County, part of which Biggs represents, has seen record-breaking spikes in coronavirus cases recently, with more than 52,000 total cases and 817 deaths — the highest in the state.

Fauci, the nation's top infectious diseases expert, warned in congressional testimony this week that he would "not be surprised" if the U.S. begins reporting as many as 100,000 new coronavirus cases per day.
"I'm very concerned and not satisfied with what's going on because we're going in the wrong direction," Fauci testified.

What they're saying:

"As our economy is restored, it is imperative that President Trump is not undermined in his mission to return our economy to greatness. Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Deborah Birx continue to contradict many of President Trump’s stated goals and actions for returning to normalcy as we know more about the COVID-19 outbreak."

This is causing panic that compromises our economic recovery. We can protect our most vulnerable from the COVID-19 outbreak while still protecting lives and livelihoods of the rest of the population. It’s time for the COVID-19 task force to be disbanded so that President Trump’s message is not mitigated or distorted.”

— Rep. Andy Biggs

The big picture: New applications for unemployment remain historically high, even as weekly jobless claims continue to slowly level off. Many economists fear that the recovery will be stunted if coronavirus cases continue to skyrocket.

https://www.axios.com/andy-biggs-coronav...TuKWdN-69Yw7Q0w

So hide the facts from the American people so they will believe Trump's lies?

Murica!

j/c...

While we are disbanding the virus task force so that it won't contradict Trump,,, why don't we do away with Bathroom scales so we can eliminate obesity.....

What a bunch of Morons Republicans have turned into.... Dumber than a box of rocks...

On a side note, there will be no further need for abortions because we will eliminate all pregnancy testing.....

Don't forget tape measures,for us that are not endowed.

j/c:

While it's easy to blame Trump, it's also a reflection on the public. Feel free to blame him, but don't only blame him.

Information is out there.

While I don't think masks are a bad idea, I think people worry too much about them to the exclusion of other things.

The "let's take a group selfie while leaning in on each other in masks" or the "let me get in your face to yell at you for not wearing a mask" or the "let's pack together in a giant protest/rally" crowd.

The masks are a supplement to social distancing, not a replacement. link

The fact that we're a relatively unhealthy population to begin with doesn't help. Obesity, diabetes, and hypertension are prevalent. Research shows a correlation between these and negative Covid outcomes. link Our diets/food systems, (sedentary) lifestyles, environments, etc are often problematic.

j/c...

j/c...

Are you kidding me? Don’t just blame trump ? Ok...His crew is also spreading the disease at rallies. Pffft

But props to ya for acknowledging trump is to blame for helping to spread this horrible disease.

Yes he is guilty.
Yes some of his crew is guilty?
Many congressmen/congresswomen are guilty.
Many Senators are guilty.
Many mayors are guilty.
Many preachers are guilty.
many fathers are guilty.
Many mothers are guilty.
Many children are guilty.

Anybody not staying home if they have symptoms is guilty.
Anybody not social distancing is guilty.
Anybody not wearing a mask in public is guilty.

None of those others are POTUS. Trump could have handled it all so much better. Failure.

Maybe, maybe not.

I do understand you don't like the President, so I get the feeling that no matter what choices he made weren't going to be correct.

There's no "maybe not? to it. All you have to do is look at the rest of the globe to see the case rates to see how badly it was handled here.

There's only one nation on the rest of this planet that did as bad of a job as we have thus far. Brazil.

Wasn't Brazil on Trump's list of $#!+hole countries?

You blame the President.


I blame the dumb ass simpletons that infest this country.



A matter of perspective.

Not sure about that. As I understood it, the countries he was referring to were on the African continent.

I do know of the glaring similarities between their president and ours.

I'm pretty certain that most of those simpletons would actually wear a mask in public if he would have set the example.

#myperspective

Well of course you do.

His own task force gave the reopening phase one plan.

14 days with cases going down and you begin to reopen phase one.

After 14 more days with cases going down, you continue to phase two and so on.

Because anyone with a brain knows we have lot of stupid people out there. You know the "I won't wear a mask cause ah my freedoms! Murica!". And of course young people which for the most part have always had more than their fair share of stupidity. That really hasn't changed much for generations.

That's why the saying "Move out of the house when you're 16 and still know everything" came from.

So the guidelines were set by results. Trump pushed Republican governors to ignore the very guidelines set up by his very own task force. You know, people who are actually experts in the field of such viruses.

To this very day he is in denial about how badly the virus is spreading. To this day he claims it's "just going to disappear". He has up until just a day ago refused to recommend people even wear masks.

Yet you sit back and excuse all of that. You give him a free pass. If one of your own children had acted the way he does while they were growing up you would have called them on the carpet and made them act better.

And all you have for Trump are excuses.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like he deserves all of the blame. But he certainly deserves his fair share.

It seems you have a hard on for Trump, and he's all you can think about.

Figures you'd ignore the entire rest of my post.

j/c:

He encourages them. I blame him for that. CDC gave guidelines and the next day he told Democratic states to liberate themselves. He ignores mask recommendations that encourages his supporters to do the same. He has caused the death of american citizens by his lack of leadership and contradicting professional recommendations that could help save lives. problem.

Put on your bifocals, increase your screen size, put in your hearing aids and pay attention Gramps

I said Trump Failed already.

I also pointed out others who have failed as well.

Disclaimer: This post may make me sound like a quack

The greatest mis-characterization and ignoring of the facts, in the case of COVID-19 is the ignoring in the media of the scientific evidence that this virus came from a lab in China as a result of research that was partially funded by the NIH and wholly blessed by the Trump administration.

I know that this sounds like something from a movie that only a conspiracy nut would believe, but I spent a good part of my early career analyzing amino acid sequences of proteins and have some sense of how likely certain mutations are to occur in the wild over time. When I see the analysis of the protein sequences adn the circumstantial evidence that has been collected, it seems to me that this was undeniably a man-made virus that was produce from what they are calling "gain-of-function" research.

Reading through all of the overwhelming circumstantial evidence on this can be exhausting, so I won't go into detail, but if you are interested you should check out this article here and this one here.

The reason that the public needs to be aware of this going on is because COVID-19 may just be the canary in the coal mine. Gain-of-function research could eventually produce something far worse. COVID-19 is going to kill 2 million people. Imagine something that could kill over 50% of the population.

The danger of gain-of-function research was realized by the scientific community. It was banned by the Obama administration and if you look up videos on gain-of-function, you will find a lot of scientific debates from around 2015 on the subject. China and other countries continued to perform this research (some of the research on Coronaviruses was directly funded by the NIH according to numerous sources) and in 2017 Trump lifted the ban in the U.S.
In 2017 Trump lifted the ban in the U.S., and that is unfortunate because acknowledging that this was lab made means that our government officials would also have to acknowledge their own bad decisions in allowing this research and funding it.

People need to start talking about this and not in a Democrat vs Republican sort of way, because failure to tackle this problem head on means that we could eventually be faced with a pandemic that will threaten billions of lives, not just millions.

There's no "may" to it.

j/c:

White House praises study that says patients given hydroxychloroquine were 50% less likely to die of COVID-19 calling it 'fantastic news' - after Trump was criticized for touting drug

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...e.html#comments

NIH halts clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine

Study shows treatment does no harm, but provides no benefit

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-halts-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine

There will always be those out there helping him spread his lies. You may even be one of them.

So, you're rolling on the floor completely dismissing a peer reviewed study published in a medical journal?

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201...KzogCa-kQh9po5o

Yes I am. A larger conclusive study by the national institute of heath has been conducted to debunk this already. Another study made a huge warning about it concerning the impact it has on the heart.

So yes, since these things have already been debunked, I'm going with an expert body in this nation over some independent study.

You should look at the study. This wasn't some podunk run bs. It involved a sizeable test group at Henry Ford Hospital. It was peer reviewed and published in a recognized medical journal. (to dumb it down for you, that means it has some legitimacy).

There have been some questions about how this study was conducted and how the patients were not randomly selected.

Study finds hydroxychloroquine may have boosted survival, but other researchers have doubts
By Maggie Fox, Andrea Kane, and Elizabeth Cohen, CNN
Updated 1:31 PM ET, Fri July 3, 2020

A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. But the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed.

A team at Henry Ford Health System in southeast Michigan said Thursday their study of 2,541 hospitalized patients found that those given hydroxychloroquine were much less likely to die.

Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease for Henry Ford Health System, said 26% of those not given hydroxychloroquine died, compared to 13% of those who got the drug. The team looked back at everyone treated in the hospital system since the first patient in March.

"Overall crude mortality rates were 18.1% in the entire cohort, 13.5% in the hydroxychloroquine alone group, 20.1% among those receiving hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin, 22.4% among the azithromycin alone group, and 26.4% for neither drug," the team wrote in a report published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases.

It's a surprising finding because several other studies have found no benefit from hydroxychloroquine, a drug originally developed to treat and prevent malaria. President Donald Trump touted the drug heavily, but later studies found not only did patients not do better if they got the drug, they were more likely to suffer cardiac side effects.

The US Food and Drug Administration withdrew its emergency use authorization for the drug earlier this month and trials around the world, including trials sponsored by the World Health Organization and the National Institutes of Health, were halted.
Researchers not involved in the Henry Ford study pointed out it wasn't of the same quality of the studies showing hydroxychloroquine did not help patients, and said other treatments, such as the use of the steroid dexamethasone, might have accounted for the better survival of some patients.
"Our results do differ from some other studies," Zervos told a news conference. "What we think was important in ours ... is that patients were treated early. For hydroxychloroquine to have a benefit, it needs to begin before the patients begin to suffer some of the severe immune reactions that patients can have with Covid," he added.

The Henry Ford team also monitored patients carefully for heart problems, he said.

"The combination of hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin was reserved for selected patients with severe COVID-19 and with minimal cardiac risk factors," the team wrote.

The Henry Ford team said they believe their findings show hydroxychloroquine could be potentially useful as a treatment for coronavirus.

"It's important to note that in the right settings, this potentially could be a lifesaver for patients," Dr. Steven Kalkanis, CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group, said at the news conference.

Kalkanis said that their findings do not necessarily contradict those of earlier studies. "We also want to make the point that just because our results differ from some others that may have been published, it doesn't make those studies wrong or definitely a conflict. What it simply means is that by looking at the nuanced data of which patients actually benefited and when, we might be able to further unlock the code of how this disease works," he said.

"Much more work needs to be done to elucidate what the final treatment plan should be for Covid-19," Kalkanis added. "But we feel ... that these are critically important results to add to the mix of how we move forward if there's a second surge, and in relevant other parts of the world. Now we can help people combat this disease and to reduce the mortality rate."

Zervos said hydroxychloroquine can help interfere with the virus directly and also reduces inflammation.

Researchers not involved with the study were critical. They noted that the Henry Ford team did not randomly treat patients but selected them for various treatments based on certain criteria.

"As the Henry Ford Health System became more experienced in treating patients with COVID-19, survival may have improved, regardless of the use of specific therapies," Dr. Todd Lee of the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal, Canada, and colleagues wrote in a commentary in the same journal.

"Finally, concomitant steroid use in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine was more than double the non-treated group. This is relevant considering the recent RECOVERY trial that showed a mortality benefit with dexamethasone." The steroid dexamethasone can reduce inflammation in seriously ill patients.

The Henry Ford team wrote that 82% of their patients received hydroxychloroquine within the first 24 hours of admission, and 91% within the first 48 hours of admission.
They wrote that in comparison, a study of patients at 25 New York hospitals started taking the drug "at any time during their hospitalization."

But patients in that New York study, published in May in the Journal of the American Medical Association, started taking hydroxychloroquine on average one day after being hospitalized.

"Maybe there's a little bit of a difference, but it's not like patients in New York were being started on day seven. That's not what happened," said Eli Rosenberg, lead author of the New York study and an associate professor of epidemiology at the University at Albany School of Public Health.

Rosenberg also pointed out that the Detroit paper excluded 267 patients -- nearly 10% of the study population -- who had not yet been discharged from the hospital.
He said this might have skewed the results to make hydroxychloroquine look better than it really was. Those patients might have still been in the hospital because they were very sick, and if they died, excluding them from the study made hydroxychloroquine look like more of a lifesaver than it really was.

"There's a little bit of loosey-goosiness here in all this," he told CNN.

Both the Detroit and New York studies were observational: they looked back at how patients did when doctors prescribed hydroxychloroquine.

While helpful, observational studies are not as valuable as controlled clinical trials. Considered the gold standard in medicine, patients in a clinical trial are randomly assigned to take either the drug or a placebo, which is a treatment that does nothing. Doctors then follow the patients to see how they fare.

Two clinical trials on hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19, one in the US and one in the UK, were stopped early because their data suggested hydroxychloroquine wasn't helpful.

The US trial, run by the National Institutes of Health, enrolled more than 470 patients.

The UK trial, run by the University of Oxford, enrolled more than 11,000 patients.

"We have concluded that there is no beneficial effect of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalized with COVID-19," the Oxford doctors concluded.

But a White House official praised the Henry Ford team's study.

Peter Navarro, the White House trade adviser, said the study shows hydroxychloroquine works if given early enough.

"This is a big deal," he told CNN. "This medicine can literally save tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of American lives and maybe millions of people worldwide."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html

Big pharma & Bill Gates want to vaccinate everyone. That's where the money is. Anything readily available makes much less of a profit for them.

Personally, I'm not worried about the coronavirus at all. Is it more deadly than the flu? Yes. But unless you are obese, sickly or elderly - or all three, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Most of what you see is media hysteria. On a larger scale it's a prelude to a new world order. As an example of that who ever thought a year ago we'd now have businesses closing down for months on end, social distancing and wear masks? No one.

People who are healthy without preexisting conditions are coming down with long lasting lung damage that may not heal.

Interesting, though I'm sure CNN would do anything in their power to discredit this study. What I also find interesting is that someone would like your post. Are they seriously happy to find possible holes in a study that shows promise in treating COVID?

I enjoy science and fact finding. Truth>Misleading studies.

I want a cure as bad as anyone else. I also want us to take out time to find the right way to battle this rather than people pulling out jump to conclusion mats. An overwhelming body of science has shown HCL to be anything but effective.

We also had studies in the past that linked autism to vaccines. That got through peer review and was retracted years later.

The scientific method calls for results to be able to reproduced. HCL has yet to find many studies that reproduce findings without gaming the statistics.

Sad discussion like this falls under "politics" when it's the actual truth.

If you're actually worried about it and can afford to then please, stay home. Personally I'd rather work and live my life then believe the MSM hype, but that's just me.

You think the coronavirus is bad? You ain't seen nothin' yet:

Revelation 6:7-8 ESV:

When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

Stuff like ^that^ worries me. Coronavirus? Not.

-Have a safe remaining 4th.