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We're ass-deep in alligators, yet we keep swatting flies. This whole debate has gone from beyond boring to being completely inane. You know what? Change the effing name, just do it and be done with it, and move on to your next "outrage du jour".

I have no doubt that Rob Manfred, the dumb-as-a-bag-of-hammers commissioner of MLB, is already pressuring the Indians to ditch their name, so just do it.

Here's my suggestion: The Cleveland Buckeyes. Its an Ohio team, plus the name pays homage to the Cleveland entry in the old Negro League. Or would that be offensive too somehow?

Fighting Irish was coined by an Irish person. Indians. . . was not.

Also, the association with the racist logo is the most problematic thing.

If the people you are "honoring" don't feel honored then what are you doing?

Buckeye was started by a Native American idea, whatever, we went over it some months ago,

the point is, it would not be enough, What about the state of Indiana.
What about the Mississippi river.

j/c



Who would have imagined reading a thread where everyone seems offended that other people are offended. And those who are offended about a corporation changing its name are telling others they shouldn't be offended.

You couldn't make this crap up if you tried.

I'd argue the opposite. It was utterly predictable.

I wanted Chief Wahoo retired 25 years ago. As for the name, they could go Spiders, Blues, Blue Sox or Unions (check the article).

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/if-th...e-best-options/

If you like the team and they're still in Cleveland, then that's all that matters.

As for Washington, they should go "Red Tails" after the Tuskegee Airmen, a group of African-American United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) servicemen during World War II.

I think that we should change the name from "Indians" to "Redskins".

I really think the Steelers need to change their name. Steelers is too close to Stealers, and then with the black helmet....Sorry, that's got to go

cant they just name it to a specific tribe or something along those lines?

like maybe Roanoke or whateve tribe was located in the region?

like, if i created a NFL franchise in oklahoma, i'd call it the Oklahoma comanche's. i think that would be dope.

The Comanche's would want to be compensated for the naming rights and other nations would sue because they weren't getting a share.

Who cares who came up with the name? ... we’re talking 50-120 years ago in most teams cases. What’s offensive then may not be now, and vice versa .. and the tricky part is: what’s offensive to YOU might not be to ME, and vice versa

The whole thing is such a subjective thing

I'm surprised this New Zealand Rugby team still has their name:

Awe...

The people who feel they are marginalized care.

Yeah, but a lot of white people think...

Actually, Cleveland should swipe up this name before Washington does. That would be enough to bring me back as a fan.

j/c...

I'm guessing they change the name back to the Cleveland Spiders.

I would be offended because Spiders eat other species. Oh, the horror!

i think they’ll come out with a statement from Native American leaders saying it’s a commemorative thing and they’ll continue to celebrate their heritage in unique ways

Why did you say Native American instead of Indian?

[img]https://external-preview.redd.it/yNLYPTP...9eeb66dd9c1e17e[/img]

Maybe for clarity? Perhaps some people don't know the difference between a call center and a reservation?

(If that joke is too raw for some, I'll remove it...)




I'm not sure of a name just yet, but maybe the Redskins could start by replacing the native American profile with Dan Snyder's profile?

Maybe... I'm a big Jeep guy and this thread got me thinking about the relationship between Jeep (Chrysler) that allowed for lack of a better term them to revived the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee lines. I did a brief Google search but there didn't appear to be much out there other than a 2014 article in the NYT that was behind a pay wall. Articles I found about the article talked about what was said by a spokesperson for the Cherokee Nation. She said that they actively have worked with companies and organizations to remove disparaging and offensive portrayals. However in regards to the Jeep Cherokee, the Cherokee Nation had no official position about it. She said that the name Cherokee is not under a copyright and they haven't been offered any royalties. She did say it would have been nice had they reached out.

As far as the Jeep side, I couldn't find much. I don't know what their explanation is for using that name on one of their products. The only quote referenced from them was that hey hadn't received any feedback that was disparaging.

Some of the articles posited that maybe the reason why it doesn't seem to be a big deal is that not only has the name and brand been used for decades, the car line had not been associated with any disparaging or offensive imagery (like a Chief Wahoo_).

How about the Afterthoughts? After a lot of . . . .Nah. Too hard to merchandise.

Cleveland Engines?

How about Cleveland Perch? or the Cleveland Walleyes?

Wouldn't you be afraid of getting cancer from all those windmills? 😳

I believe the Cleveland area was home to the Erie indians.

We should work in conjunction with them, keep the official name indians but promote the nickname the Erie warriors.

We should bring back Chief Wahoo but as a regal leader\cheiftan and not the offensive caricature that it has been.

We also need a statue of Nap Lajoie in front of the stadium. It's a travesty that he doesn't already have one regardless of being a native American or not. But being native American makes it so much worse.

Inside Cleveland Indians’ decision to consider name change: From George Floyd to FedEx – Terry Pluto

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/07/...erry-pluto.html


CLEVELAND, Ohio – The Cleveland Indians put out a tweet at 8:31 p.m. Friday about finding “the best path forward with regard to the team name.”

This came about 30 hours after corporate sponsors FedEx and Nike began pressuring the NFL’s Washington Redskins to change their nickname. Obviously, that had an impact on the Indians. Why else make the tweet public Friday night?

No one from the Indians plans to speak publicly about the issue right now. They want the tweet to stand as the franchise’s statement. It was composed by the team’s leadership, with input from Tribe President Chris Antonetti, GM Mike Chernoff and many others. Owner Paul Dolan was heavily involved and approved the final statement.

This comes only 18 months after Dolan talked to me about dropping the Chief Wahoo logo, calling it “the hardest decision we’ve had to make during our entire ownership.” In that same Jan. 29, 2018, interview, Dolan said: “Not only are we adamant about keeping the name Indians, but the Commissioner (Rob Manfred) is similarly supportive of the name.”

He added, “The Commissioner is not troubled by the use of the name. We are confident the name will continue on.”

So what changed?


THE NEW RACIAL AWARENESS

This has been a year like no other for Major League Baseball and the world. COVID-19 wiped out the end of spring training and the start of the regular season.

Then there was the murder of George Floyd on May 25 at the hands of four Minneapolis policemen.

The country was in upheaval. As protests broke out, Antonetti received a late night text from Theo Epstein, a close friend who also runs the Chicago Cubs. They began talking on the phone about “doing something” to address the issue of racism. They began talking to other GMs in the baseball and Manfred.

“Rob was immediately supportive,” Antonetti said in a Zoom call on June 11. “He said it’s something we need to do as an industry and we need to do it all together.”

Baseball came up with “Black Lives Matter. United For Change.” In the end, $1.1 million was raised from various teams and MLB and was distributed to five charities: the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, Color for Change, Equal Justice Initiative, the Jackie Robinson Foundation and Campaign Zero.

Dolan told Antonetti there had to be more than statements: “We need to follow up with action.” The Indians began looking at the issue of the organization’s diversity. They had conference calls, some deep discussions.

“It’s not an issue just for today,” said Antonetti. “We’re thinking long-term. It needs to be sustained action. It can’t just be in the wake of George Floyd’s death that we’re talking about. It has to be a source of continued conversation for months and years ahead.”

THE TEAM NAME

During some of the discussions, the team name came up. The Indians heard from some of their people that the name was “offensive” or at least politically out-of-touch with 2020 America.

The organization had dealt with the demands to dump Chief Wahoo for decades from Native American groups and regular fans before making the decision in 2018. The Indians and MLB deny it, but it was no secret the Indians were in line for the 2019 All-Star Game. MLB did not want the Chief Wahoo debate hanging over a showcase event.

My guess is the Indians grew weary of the issue. That led to Dolan’s decision to come up with a new logo. He knew it was going to be changed at some point, and it was best to make the move before the All-Star Game.

While some fans and media people also pushed for a name change, that was not nearly as strong as the anti-Chief Wahoo sentiment. It wasn’t until the recent protests and the soul-searching by the Indians that followed when the discussion for dropping the name began in earnest.

But there was no rush to make a change. Dolan and the organization wanted to carefully consider the ramifications of any decision.


THE WASHINGTON CONTROVERSY

Meanwhile, Washington’s NFL team has been under fire for years to change its nickname. Owner Daniel Snyder had refused – until now.

Washington plays in FedEx Field in Landover, Maryland. In 1998, FedEx agreed to pay $205 million over 27 years for the naming rights to the stadium, and FedEx owner Fred Smith has a minority ownership share in the team.

On Thursday, FedEx released a statement: “We have communicated to the team in Washington our request they change the team name.” Nike is another corporate sponsor advocating for a change.

The Indians were very aware of this. Special interest groups and fans are putting pressure on corporations for social change.

I was told the Indians have not faced those pressures yet. Progressive Insurance paid $58 million for the naming rights of the old Jacobs Field. That was for 16 years and it expires in 2024. The Mayfield-based Progressive also is a big advertiser on the Tribe broadcasts.

Money talks. Teams want their corporate partners happy.

No one is saying it, but the release of the Tribe’s tweet so soon after the FedEx/Washington statements is not a coincidence. By saying they are looking at a possible name change, the Indians are able to keep heat off their corporate sponsors.

WILL THE NAME CHANGE?

While the team insists no final decision has been made, it would be a stunner if the Indians kept the nickname.

The tweet is the first step in figuring out what to do next. The team will be called the Indians for the 2020 season.

My sense it’s doubtful they would make a small change such as calling it “The Tribe.” My guess is they will start all over, a new nickname and a new logo. But my sources keep saying no final decision has been made.

Nonetheless, in this political and business climate, the team’s brass will look hard at possible options. Fans are already sending in suggestions such as “Cleveland Rocks” and “Cleveland Spiders.” A new nickname could be the result of a fans vote. It could be a marketing boost for the team, selling both old Indians merchandise and items with the new name and logo.

My sense is the team is tired of the debates over Wahoo and Indians. They are ready for something new, and the events of this year of turmoil has added more urgency to make the change in time for the 2021 season.

J/c

I fully expect them to have the Iroquois nation come out and publicly support the Indians name as it commemorates their tribe ... maybe there will be some new ways to do it (Instead of Slider, have an Erie/Iroquois mascot, maybe a special Iroquois wing of history, etc)

It appears 9 out of 10 Native American aren't offended by the name Redskins. The climate is changing allowing for this push. Where people see opportunity, they'll push.

This would definitely be the best path forward.

Work with the Iroquois and see what they would like to see.

Terry Francona went on record about it.

Here's some quotes




Link

I appreciate his realization and growth here. Listen and if you feel like talking, talk about what you learned.

I'm OK with seeing a name change because of that lone 10th person.
Here's why: I lose nothing of my identity, ethics, personal or political beliefs if the name is changed.

I haven't been hurt in any way by such a policy change... and if it addresses someone else's offended sensibilities, so much the better.

I have an issue with it because no native americans asked for this change.

Its the result of some corporations trying to appear "woke" to further their bottom line.

Interesting discussion.

Small samplings:

1. Years ago at Hopkins airport, I talked with a man who was obviously a Native American.
He was wearing an Indians jacket, and we talked baseball and the Browns.

A couple of years ago I spent part of an afternoon at a nearby reserve (in the US they are called reservations), asking a few of them what they thought of sports teams nicknames.... I only asked a few people.
They were cool with Braves, and Indians (but less so with Indians), but despised the Redskins name.

That is the approach.

FSU has the blessing of the Seminole nation. The Atlanta Braves have no issues. Brave isn't a derogatory term.

As for Indians, I don't see a problem. In the big picture they were called the Erie Indians, but it was primarily the Wyandot and Iroquois nations what formed what is called the Erie's. Maybe the team can do something to help those two Tribes.

Tribe isn't exclusive to natives.

If not, change the name to the Tribe. We have been calling them that for decades.

If the Indians change their name I hope they change it to the Cleveland Foreskins in honor of all the Richard heads who want it changed.

"I agree with our Native American population. I am
highly jilted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins.
One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native
Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be
careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and
courtesy, we must move forward.
Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the
Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the
reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get
rid of the Cleveland Browns.
The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of
militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white
folk.
The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a
team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference
to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives. I
am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion
among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New
Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.
Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and
pillaged We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the
Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh
Pirates!
Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message
to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting
or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.
The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a
growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children. The
Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our
children
The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message
to our children.
So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out
to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become
involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the
do-nothing Congress loves.
As a die-hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in
mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the
Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the
Beavers (especially when they play Southern California. Do we really
want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers??? "