DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Greg Cosell on Baker and the Browns

Greg Cosell: Baker Mayfield is a far more talented passer than Kirk Cousins and Cousins did exceptionally well in this offense; it's really a well-schemed offense

Browns offense could be a very interesting offense to watch, has some really good weapons; fundamentals, mechanics the key for Baker

Bull & Fox Show
July 16, 2020

Greg Cosell of NFL Matchup on ESPN and NFL Films joined Bull & Fox to talk about his film study of Baker Mayfield from last season, the improvements that need to be made with his footwork, how Kevin Stefanski could use Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt together in this offense, Odell Beckham Jr.'s opportunities this upcoming season and why Baker should succeed in this offense even beyond the level that Kirk Cousins was able to in the past.

Listen at link below:

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/greg-cosell-baker-mayfield-more-talented-than-kirk-cousins

We should move on from Baker ....today!

so....

what happens if Baker doesnt improve this year?

i mean, it is a possibility.

You give him another year.

We’re screwed.

If we are 0-3 and Baker has something like 6 TD and 8 INT, do you go with Keenum?

What if we are 3-5 and Baker has 16 TD and 17 INT?

This will be Bakers 3rd O system in 3 years. If he has just a decent season and shows improvement from the 1st game to the last he should be given another year. He has the deck stacked against him between a new O plus the lack of practice time. Last year was a waste of time for him and the team. We need to have some patience with him.

He was being sarcastic, mac.

I've never heard of Greg Cosell,
Who the rip is Greg Cosell.
Don't care about his comments.

How many of those INTs bounce off receivers' hands or have intended receivers running lousy routes? Are they receivers signed off the street because our starters got quarantined?

The numbers by themselves don't mean a whole lot.

Nephew of Howard Cosell, and senior producer of NFL films.

If you don't know who Howard Cosell is/was, .....

it's only his 2nd system

Jackson
Haley
Kitchens
Stefanski

I’d be surprised if Baker isn’t improved, at least a little bit. It is tough for a new system again but I think it is a system that fits him

Baker never played in Hue Jackson's system.

What did the defense do? What decisions did the coaches make?
How did the line hold up?

You cannot simply boil a decision down to a stat line. You have to look at What is happening and Why. If you determine that Baker is the sole reason for all of that AND you feel strongly that the backup would have done better in those games AND you feel that it either isn't fixable or it is best fixed with him sitting, THEN and only then you consider making the switch. None of that can be determined without a What and Why. Stat lines are meaningless because they don't actually tell you anything.

If Baker doesn't look any better compared to last year, then that should send up big red flags. If any of the Freddie leadership/scheme rants had any merit whatsoever, that should translate to at least a small improvement from Baker.

While I think Baker needs and deserves more time, if it's clear he's not showing any improvement in the post-Kitchens era, even I say that's grounds for Keenum discussions.

I think his comments echo the majority sentiment of most posters on this board. I think the biggest variation on opinion is the amount of faith posters have in how much improvement we will see. The range is from complete and total faith for a couple of posters to simply 'show me' to a few. After so many off seasons of hype and hope since 1999, hard not to dampen your optimism just a little. I'm very confident we will see a reversion to hard work, application and improvement... Hope we get to find out and they figure out a way to play.

That is correct. I screwed that up.

I agree with every word of that. And while I have no clue if it will apply to Baker or not, I've seen a different scenario play out many times in the past. This FO and coaching staff are not tied to Baker. They didn't draft him.

The scenario I'm speaking of is when a team feels they need a spark. When your QB isn't really playing terribly at all, sometimes possibly even average or slightly above. But for some reason it seems the team isn't responding to him. It appears they're playing lackluster and appear to lack motivation. At that juncture sometimes coaches determine that they simply won't blame the entire rest of the O. They feel surely it's not every player on your O that is the problem. It's a lack of leadership in your QB. The lack of his ability to inspire his players to perform.

Now on a personal level I haven't see anything out of Baker to indicate this will be or could be what will happen. From every indication I've seen, he's been putting his head down and putting the work in. I like what I've seen.

I'm simply pointing out that while I agree with your post, I have seen a different scenario play out before.

I'd tend to agree with Rish, that you give him another year, but two factors argue against giving him another year. The first one is personal: I'm not getting any younger and I'm pretty tired of the "Have Patience" routine. Its time to win.

The second, and more important reason is that Dak Prescott will possibly/probably be available to us in 2021, and while he may not be "elite" I think he's a top 10 QB.

So I guess I'm on the fence. If Mayfield doesn't improve and we can get Prescott, my vote would be Prescott. If that's not possible, Then I'd prefer Mayfield over another drafted QB.

Of course, the last thing to consider is what a FUBAR year this has been so far and the difficult task the Browns face with a new staff, new system, no minicamps, and a likely to be truncated training camp and preseason.

Its a tough call.

Why wouldn’t the Cowboys just tag Prescott again?

Two problems with that Dave.

If you part ways with Mayfield, you are assuming you're just going to find a QB that can "win".

Two, Mayfield is way more talented than Prescott.

I think what it all boils down to is production. I mean if anyone wished to use talent as a guideline, Njoku is much more of a potential talent based on his physical gifts alone. But Hooper has been far more productive.

It seems to me that Prescott and the Cowboys have a large difference of opinion of his value, with Prescott wanting top 5 type money. So they could very well tag him again next year, but they would risk losing him for nothing more than a compensatory pick, plus that last tagged year would be a large distraction all season long. I think they might rather trade him after 2020 for a #1 or #2 pick and/or another QB.

My reply to Swish was based on his premise that Mayfield doesn't improve in 2020. I really expect him to be much closer to 2018 Baker than the 2019 version we saw. I will be disappointed with anything less than a wildcard berth in 2020 and a 9-7 or 10-6 record. If we finish 7-9 or 8-8, miss the playoffs, and its because Mayfield wasn't as good as we think he should be, then I would be okay with moving on, if it nets us Prescott.

This is true, but he did have to study it and learn it to be prepared. Then he has to forget it and learn the others that were thrown at him. That takes time and dedication.

Baker’s first OC was Haley, then Freddie, then whatever Freddie’s system was last year, and now Stefanski. Hue was never Baker’s OC.

Yup, he is a lost cause.

Hey Kash. See cfrs' reply to you.

Additionally, Hue actually wanted Haley to implement some of the things Baker did well in college. The media and fan base went nuts about Hue being involved in the offense. Haley said it was a "process," and did not not accept the recommendations from Hue.

I wouldn't care what Mike Tyson's nephew had to tell me about catching pigeons with his hands either.

J/C We have invested a 1st RD draft Pick on a LT, Invested Big FA cash in RT Jack Conklin, and TE Austin Hooper and Drafted Harrison Bryant. These moves were made based on making Baker better. A QB's best friend is a TE, our new system should feature that. I hope Njoku is in the mix as that will only make that group better. I think Cosell understands we have the talent to execute the system well. I think he is right and we will a much improved offense. I think we will be much better coached team this year, I like the mantra of shut your mouth and just win

Baker has had two play callers. Haley and Kitchens.

This isn’t that hard.

This was our red zone offense as called by Huey or Kitchens. Inside the 5, it ends with a double reverse throwback jump pass screen for a loss. I remember this one.

Thats playcallers not systems mouth ...

Haleys system ... year 1 .. first half of the year ,,

Freddie’s version of Haleys system ... year 1 ... second half of year ..

Freddie’s system ... year 2 ...

Thats 2 play callers ... 3 systems ...

tabber your boy played for Hue as a HC ... Hue never called plays for Bake or was his OC ... for whatever reason Hue decided or had it shoved down his throat that it was Haley’s O and Haley’s alone ...