DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Aight. We need to talk about the Economy and Stimulus

I just jumped in on this, so I haven't read everything.

We had to do something for business. Small business employs a lot of people. We need to keep them solvent.
When we turn the corner on this thing, we need those business' there to keep people employed.

No doubt we need to help the people. It sounds like we are ready to send more checks to people, which is good, but we can't forget employers.

Most employers aren't sitting on multi-billion dollar corporations. Most are sitting on a restaurant, dry cleaner, gasket company, auto shop, or plumbing/AC business that might be doing a few mil a year in business.

Sure, the owner is making some money. It's why you take a chance and go in to business. No? You stick your ass on the line, you deserve the rewards if it works. In the mean time, they might have 7 to 70 employees who feel like it is worthwhile to stay there.


If you wait tables, cool. If you are pulling in $900 a week in tips, you stick with it. If $350 a week, you are looking for another gig.


We need those restaurants, and if you turn a wrench, we need those auto shops to be there. It's how people make livings.

We might not all get rich, but most of us do something to make a living. Some make more, some make less. Nothing dishonorable about that. We are all filling a need.

Problem is ...even though restaurants and stores are opening it’s 50% or less revenue. 50% less employee hours. They aren’t hiring new employees. They can’t even bring back some of their best employees. Laid off employees can’t find work. The business get millions in loans they won’t have to pay back and the lowly employees making minimum wage or less are being left behind and won’t be able to afford to put food on their table let alone a roof over their head. Making the overall economy worse then ever.

I don't know that I believe your math.


At any rate, we need to keep business solvent to preserve jobs..



This isn't some conspiracy here to jackwad business owners pockets. They also put a lot of money in to employees pockets.

It's a symbiotic relationship. Each needs the other.


Just like you have bills to pay, I assume you do, a business owner does as well, and when little money is streaming in, it's tough.

Do you really think you can "reason" w/Perfect? LOL man......do you ever read the garbage that spews from his mouth on a daily basis?

hey....at least we are having a decent conversation. That is a good restart.

That is what I seek more than anything here. The only way to get along is to try to get along. Never know, we might learn from each other.

I am trying to find a new starting point. Read my sig

I've given 'spiral plenty of grief before, but in this case he's correct, imo.

We'll never know how much of the "Small Business" loans went to big corps due to stupid loopholes. You can find article after article of the mom and pop shops not able to get their piece of the pie while large corps raked in millions. And let me say it again, it was run out of the Small Business Admin.

Now, it might all be moot. This loan program was rolling when the 'Rona was just getting started. I don't think they intended for that single loan to keep small business afloat for an extended period of time.

Is this an example of the mocking, hate and attacking that you so frequently refer to on this board?

See, we agree here but as per usual it's the way our government went about it. And I'm not really trying to lay blame on either party per say as government usually does a poor job when rolling out any program they intend for good.

The problem is actually that they set the boundary on the amount of employees a business had at 500 to qualify. I posted a list of many businesses worth huge amounts of money with less than 500 employees on the board as an example. Also they allowed franchises which often times employ thousands of people, yet few people at each location to qualify.

It turned out that those type of businesses which had legal representation and qualified people to apply for these loans ate up the pie while the actual small business as we think of them were a day late and a dollar short in applying. Thus many of what most of is consider small businesses were left out in the cold.

As with many government programs, it was abused and didn't accomplish what it was intended to accomplish in many cases.

That's about an average annual salary of $680K/year for those 70 employees. Law firms don't have that kind of monthly burn rate.. but a MOVING COMPANY?

Glad he got caught and yes.. we will likely never find out how many more of these people are out there. Hopefully as they are now in the process of having to justify what they did with the money, or be forced to pay it back, at least some of them will get caught.

I mean we could've like figured out an emergency social safety net for times like this. That would help plenty.

It's working out okay in the UK and other social democracies who find ways to provide for citizens in times of need.

It does seem the economic help discussion during CV-19 is a bit like the National Health care discussion... it doesn't matter how many other countries around the globe demonstrate that it can be done and the results are better than in the USA, we dig our heels in and claim it can't be done here.

I think part of the problem is a denial about how bad and how long this CV-19 is going to impact everyone and therefore impact the economy. And the stimulus so far seems to be more of a band aid than something that can be put in place and protect people longer term. Certainly it makes no sense to provide people more income than they were on pre-CV19... but as has been observed, providing a little disposable income for those that need it and can spend the money does more than giving it to companies, especially when they set the parameters such that many medium-large companies benefited. At the end of the day it's not something you can do in half measures ... if that's what we end up doing we're headed for a double dip recession and the 2nd hit will be worse and longer than the first, that essentially costs us much more than doing the right thing now.

3 Months Of Hell: U.S. Economy Drops 32.9%, In Worst GDP Report Ever

July 30, 20205:00 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition
link


Updated at 9:32 a.m. ET

The coronavirus pandemic triggered the sharpest economic contraction in modern American history, the Commerce Department reported Thursday.

Gross domestic product — the broadest measure of economic activity — shrank at an annual rate of 32.9% in the second quarter, as restaurants and retailers closed their doors in a desperate effort to slow the spread of the virus, which has killed more than 150,000 people in the U.S.

The economic shock in April, May and June was more than three times as sharp as the previous record — 10% in 1958 — and nearly four times the worst quarter during the Great Recession.

"Horrific," said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Markit. "We've never seen anything quite like it."

Another 1.43 million people filed for state unemployment last week, an increase of 12,000, the Labor Department reported Thursday. It was the second week in a row of increased unemployment filings and shows that the economic picture continues to remain grim.

GDP swings are typically reported at an annual rate — as if they were to continue for a full year — which can be misleading in a volatile period like this. The overall economy in the second quarter was 9.5% smaller than during the same period a year ago.

After a sharp drop in March and April, economic activity began to rebound in May and June, although that recovery remains halting and could be jeopardized by a new surge of infections.

Restaurant owner Cameron Mitchell likens the pandemic to a hurricane. What appeared to be a business rebound in June turned out to be merely the eye of the storm, and he's now being buffeted by gale-force winds again.

"Our associates are more scared to work today and guests are more afraid to go out, so sales have dropped," Mitchell said.

Business at his restaurants in Florida had nearly recovered to pre-pandemic levels in June but has since fallen sharply.

Other industries have enjoyed a more durable recovery, though few are back to where they were in February.

Dentists' offices are ordinarily one of the more stable parts of the economy, but they closed for all but emergency services during much of the spring. Dental hygienist Alexis Bailey was out of work for 10 weeks before her office in Lansing, Mich., reopened at the end of May.

At first, she was reluctant to go back to work while the virus was still circulating.

"I was terrified," Bailey said. "I was not happy to be back. But I have a job to do and I like to do it and I want to help people. We talk about how essential we are, so that's what we've had to do."

I wonder what conservatives would say if that drop in GDP happened under Obama during H1N1?

Lol, silly me. I already know the answer to that question.

What u wanna discuss with this maga hatter sir? Discuss Swish, not insult and beat each other up ... not going down that road with u again ...

Discuss and not insult?

I would just like for you to explain to me why your leadership refuses to bend over backwards for the american people like they continue to do for corporations, even during a pandemic.

2/3rds of our economy is consumer spending. shouldnt 2/3rds of the bailout money go to consumers instead of the supply side?

First of I’m a Trump supporter that left the Republican Party during Ronnie’s 2nd term ... i thought he was a horrible president and thats when i realized the repubs could care less about us .... So the repubs are not my leadership ... i have 1 dog in the yard and want about as much to do with the repubs as I do the dems ...

Second I’d like to know how the dems are any better in that regard than the repubs ... please tell me how they stick up for the American people compared to the repubs ... the dems have been in bed with the corps for a little less time than the repubs ... but the dems are in their pockets also ....

Is your question referring to the 1st “bailout” or what they put in their 2nd “bailout” or a combo? Just want to make sure I know what I’m answering so were on the same page ...

By 2/3rds of our economy do u mean that 2/3rds of our gdp comes from consumer spending from this country? .. if not, what are u referring too ...

So you won’t answer why they bend over backwards for corporations? I mean come on man, all you gave me was the typical “I left the party” that everyone else gives.

That’s just simply not good enough.

And who do you think should’ve got the bulk of the bail out money? The individual American or the corporations?

I asked questions to get clarity ... I told u about leaving the party because u lumped me in with republicans and not as an answer to your question ...

I don’t think they bent over for corporations in this particular case ...

I don’t think in terms of who should get what % ... i think they should get what each side needs ... right now everyone needs more ..

U also leave out a very important group ... small business owners ... there not anything like corporation ..

You saw the amount that megachurches received, right?

Yes sir i sure did ...

Did u expect there to be no cracks in something this big being rolled out so fast ... i did ... its why i don’t whine over all the cash planned parenthood, the Ivy League colleges or some of the other scum out there that took advantage and kept money away from those that really needed it ...

I'm a business owner. I received nothing. I'm ok with that.

I just want my damn tax refund.

Did you apply for anything? Did you have a loss of income?

Does anybody know why congress has recesses and vacations anyway? Pisses me off!

They're nothing but a bunch of slackers!

they just came off of one and are about to go back on another.

they talk about 600 being an incentive to work, but these clowns are never at work themselves and they make 100k+ a year.

What the Dems plan and GOP plans have


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2...ica/3051559001/

1.2 Million more Americans file for unemployment this week. ‘We got this under control. We’re doing a great job”. Pfffft trump.

Remember, we’re in this together!

Poor Musk barely hanging on with the big-timers...

He looks to be gaining fast on the other in that graphic.

Yeah poor Musk...lol

Some people hate winners and love losers like trump.

Pretty sure Trump has added to his wealth during the pandemic too. Just saying.

What do you base that on? I would think his hotels and resorts have taken major hits. I do know he doubled the price of membership to Mar-a-Lago from 100k to 200k right after he was elected. And I would not be surprised if some of the things he has done while in office haven't set him up for enrichment in the future.

Yet at the same time I haven't seen any evidence that would suggest that his business ventures have gained him a lot of wealth due to the pandemic. I'm certainly open to seeing any reports that suggest otherwise.

How the blank are you blaming Trump this is all the democrats fault.
Has there been one time comments from either side haven't shown Trumps trying to keep the economy open but the democrats are trying to shut "everything" down.

I think the point that him saying things like "We got this under control", "It will just disappear" and "Children are immune" are misleading at best and that until we confront this issue with some actual direction from leadership it's not going to get better.

Trying to shut what down? And really a payroll relief tax? u do realize how your social security is funded right? Pffft killer trump and his supporters.

j/c...

Long read.