DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Police officers should not be charged with Breonna Taylor's death, criminal law experts say

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati...tion-topstories

Police officers should not be charged with Breonna Taylor's death, criminal law experts say

LOUISVILLE, Ky. – LeBron James wants them charged. So does Beyoncé.

And so do 10 million other people who have signed a petition at change.org demanding justice for Breonna Taylor — and that Louisville Metro Police Sgt. Jonathan Mattingly, Officer Myles Cosgroveand ex-Officer Brett Hankison be charged with killing her.

But in interviews and emails, seven experienced Louisville defense lawyers who are not involved in the case — and who have an average of 37 years each in practice — say the officers should not be charged with murder or manslaughter because they had a legal right to defend themselves once her boyfriend shot at them.

Three of the attorneys are Black.

“It is unfortunate that this young lady was killed,” said Aubrey Williams, a former president of Louisville’s NAACP chapter who has spent much of his 40-year career fighting police in court.

“But for the life of me I don’t see them indicting or convicting.”

Jan Waddell, another defense lawyer who is Black and has likewise frequently tangled with police, also said Mattingly and Cosgrove are likely immune from prosecution because Kentucky law allowed them to return fire in self-defense when Mattingly was hit in the leg with a bullet fired by Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, who said he didn't know the intruders were police and thought the couple was being robbed.

“The seemingly unending list of unarmed Black men who have been and continue to be gunned down by white police officers ... does not and cannot justify the return of an indictment based on revenge rather than the facts of the case and the law,” Waddell said.
The three Louisville Metro Police Department officers who fired their guns at Breonna Taylor's apartment: Brett Hankison, Jonathan Mattingly and Myles Cosgrove.

In an interview, Sam Aguiar, a civil lawyer for Taylor’s family, acknowledged Louisville police had a right to return fire immediately after they were fired upon shortly after midnight March 13. But he said evidence shows they continued to shoot after they were no longer in danger.

He cites a 911 call from a neighbor who reported hearing gunfire, then 68 seconds later in the same call said she heard more.

The latest on Breonna Taylor's case:Autopsy, police radio files shouldn't be released yet, Attorney General says

Most of the lawyers, who include three former prosecutors, said Hankison should be charged with wanton endangerment. Acting LMPD Chief Robert Schroeder fired him for showing "extreme indifference to the value of human life" when he "blindly fired 10 rounds into the back of Taylor's apartment and the one next door without verifying they were directed against someone who posed an immediate threat."

Hankison’s attorney, David Leightty, said in appealing his client's termination in June that the officer fired his gun “in quick response to the gunfire directed at himself and other officers” and did not fire blindly into Taylor’s apartment.

Leightty said he is not a criminal attorney and declined to comment on whether his client should or will be charged with a crime.

Waddell and two other lawyers, Ted Shouse and Guthrie True of Frankfort, said they think Mattingly and Cosgrove will be charged in Taylor’s death only if Attorney General Daniel Cameron believes his office can prove the warrant to search her apartment was obtained fraudulently by another detective — and Mattingly and Cosgrove knew that.

“That’s a big if,” Shouse said.

Detective Joshua Jaynes claimed in an application for the search warrant that a U.S. postal inspector verified that an alleged drug dealer was receiving packages at Taylor’s home, but the inspector latertold WDRB that no suspicious packages were being sent to Taylor.

The FBI is investigating the circumstances surrounding the March 13 warrant, and Jaynes has been placed on administrative reassignment. He did not respond to an email seeking comment and has not responded to a request for comment left with LMPD.

Jaynes could be charged with false swearing, at a minimum, Shouse said, if he knowingly included false information in the warrant application.

If Mattingly and Cosgrove knew the warrant was obtained improperly, Waddell and the other two lawyers said, the search may have been unlawful, which would mean they could lose their right to self-defense.

But other attorneys — including the former prosecutors — say that argument is far-fetched and it is unlikely Cameron would pursue a prosecution based on that theory.

Cameron, who has been investigating the shooting since May 13, when Commonwealth's Attorney Tom Wine requested a special prosecutor, has declined to comment on when or whether he will present the case to a grand jury.

Under state law, the use of deadly force is justified by anyone — civilian or police — if that person believes such force is necessary to protect them against death or physical injury.

Louisville Metro Police policy also says officers may use deadly force when the officer reasonably believes “based on the facts and circumstances that the person against whom the force is used poses an immediate threat of death or serious injury.”

Mattingly has told investigators that even though police had a no-knock warrant, he knocked repeatedly on the door of Taylor’s apartment and announced he was an officer before he and Cosgrove used a battering ram to knock the door down when nobody answered.

More:Breonna Taylor was alive after police shot her, but no one tried to treat her

Mattingly said when they entered, a man who turned out to be Taylor’s boyfriend — Walker — fired one shot that struck him in the leg. Mattingly, Cosgrove and Hankison returned fire, Hankison from the back of the apartment.

Taylor was shot five times and died in her hallway.

Walker has said he fired what he described as a warning shot, to stop what he thought might be a robbery.

“Where a shot is fired by someone in the house, it is logical and pursuant to training that the officer or officers would return fire,” said Frankfort attorney William E. Johnson, who was admitted to practice in 1957 and is considered the dean of Kentucky criminal defense lawyers.
Breonna Taylor

Other lawyers said if police are not allowed to return fire when they are shot at, nobody would be willing to work as an officer.

All the attorneys contacted by The Courier Journal described Taylor’s death as a tragedy and several said her family deserves to be compensated by the city for their loss.

“This case is an unmitigated disaster,” Shouse said. “It stinks to high heaven. We can either acknowledge this and make much needed reforms, or we can do what appears to be happening: using the same old playbook and hoping this mess will blow over. It won't.”

Three months after the Taylor shooting, the city banned no knock warrants. However, Shouse suggested two other reforms: assigning warrant applications to judges at random, rather than letting police officers shop for one they think will be accommodating, and recording the conversations between judges and officers.

“Every other interaction between a judge and a player in the criminal justice system is recorded," he said. “Why not this?”

Fact check:Debunking 7 widely shared rumors in the Breonna Taylor police shooting

The attorneys for Taylor’s estate, Aguiar and Lonita Baker of Louisville and Benjamin Crump of Tallahassee, Florida, have called for criminal charges against the three officers. Aguiar said Hankison should be charged with attempted murder.

Mattingly and Cosgrove were placed on administrative assignment.

Attorney Marc Murphy declined to say if he thinks they should be charged in Taylor’s death. But he said prosecutors will have to look at their individual conduct — and Hankison’s — and their conduct together, because under Kentucky law, if a person is murdered through the collective efforts of three people, all can be charged with murder regardless of which bullets actually caused the death.

Taylor’s death has prompted an international outcry and more than 60 days of protests throughout Louisville.

Williams said he understands the “anger of LeBron and Beyoncé” and other protesters and applauds them for expressing their pain.

“But just because we have had these brutal things that have happened to our people down through the ages doesn’t mean these cops should be charged,” he said.

Waddell, who has won exonerations for Black people convicted as a result of police incompetence and misconduct, said: “If we, as Black people, are willing to condone the return of an indictment for murder when the facts ... clearly do not justify the return of such an indictment, then we will lose our moral authority.

“If we want ‘equal justice’’’ he said, “we must we willing to accept that the police are also entitled to ‘equal justice’ when the facts and circumstances demand it.”

Follow Louisville Courier Journal reporter Andrew Wolfson on Twitter: @adwolfson

he 5 Basic Principles of Gun Safety:

1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
2. Always point your gun in a safe direction.
3.Never point your gun at anything you don't intend to shoot.
4.Keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot.
5. Be sure of your target and what's beyond.

Surprise. More police instigated murderers being exonerated. Pffft.

1.Just because the police have the wrong house doesn't give you the right to open fire on them. Even if they broke in as they were conducting official police business.

I do not agree. Anybody that busts into my home unannounced is getting shot. I'm not going to sit around wondering whether or not they mean to do my family harm.

Will never understand why some folk resist to holding Police Officers accountable.

I do not agree. Anybody that busts into my home unannounced is getting shot. I'm not going to sit around wondering whether or not they mean to do my family harm.

And that's the problem here. This is actually a case of the procedure being totally faulty. The policy is an awful one and should change.

Is this the third or fourth murder in an unarmed black American that Knight has tried to justify in the last three mi tha?

Dude, Breonna Taylor did nothing.

Take your trash opinions to Stormfront or 8chan.

I think next time someone wait until the people breaking in should have the option of shooting first. I mean we all know if someone breaks your door off the hinges they are peaceful.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html

Ms. Taylor and her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, had been in bed, but got up when they heard a loud banging at the door. After a brief exchange, Mr. Walker fired his gun.

Im not saying that at all PitDawg.

Lets say someone breaks your door off the hinges, and you meet them with a 12 gauge...if they put their hands up and drop their crowbar...can you justify shooting them at that point?

If someone did break down your door Pit, if you saw no weapon in their hand, would train your rifle/pistol on them you tell them to get on the ground? Would you give them a chance to run or surrender before opening fire on them?

People are missing the detail that Mr. Walker "Shot though the door" at police, that had not even broken the door down yet when he fired the 1st shot.

How can you justify that to a jury or a prosecutor?

I am asking a serious question, because what Mr. Walker done goes against everything I was taught about self and home defense...if any of us done what Mr. Walker done regardless of who we are we would probably be looking at a prison sentence.

Furthermore, Mr. Walker ADMITS he had a brief dialogue with the police before he fired the 1st shot:



Do you believe during the breif exchange the police did not tell Mr. Walker who they were? why would they not tell him when they had a valid search warrant.

my gut tells me Mr. Walker is lying..if he had a brief dialogue before firing the shot, your telling me you don't think the police didn't tell him "Its the police"....i dunno man...i find that hard to believe...they had a warrant, a lawful right to be there, why wouldn't they tell him?

If Mr. Walker would not have fired the 1st shot, Ms. Taylor would probably still be alive today.

The "brief exchange" you mentioned was asking them who they were. Which he claims they did not respond to.

Here is what I think is a pretty good article that doesn't seem to try and take a side and uses some pretty good sources to find the facts.

FACT CHECK: Debunking 7 widely shared rumors in the Breonna Taylor police shooting

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/ne...ong/5326938002/

As for shooting through the door? For legal purposes I would most likely wait until the door was breached before firing.

Depending on my neighborhood, the crime rate and recent criminal activity, someone who may not have the same experience might react differently.

I'm happy that the cops don't depend on your gut to reach their conclusions.

And there It is, You have the right to protect your domain with deadly force unless it’s from unannounced police officers. And if you fire first they have a right to kill anyone there. Pffft trump supporters and their guts. Lol

Seriously though, during that brief dialogue you believe they didn't announce themselves? On what evidence?

1. a warrant
2. A valid Legal and Lawful reason to be there.

Why would the police NOT announce themselves when Mr. Walker asked who they were?

im just curious why you believe his word over the word of 3 cops with a warrant.

Seriously though, during that brief dialogue you believe they didn't announce themselves? On what evidence?

The police had:

1. a warrant
2. A valid Legal and Lawful reason to be there.

Why would the police NOT announce themselves when Mr. Walker asked who they were?

im just curious why you believe his word over the word of 3 cops with a warrant.

I feel like they should have knocked. Then none of this would have happened.

Dude, I never said she did.

Her B/F was the one who started shooting without knowing who he was shooting at. Ms. Taylor was killed when the police returned fire because her B/F was shooting at them. One of the cops took a bullet in the leg before they returned fire for Pete's Sake!

Ms. Taylor would still be alive today if her ******* moron of a B/F wouldn't have gotten trigger happy and started shooting at people though a door he had not identified.

Mr. Walker fired the 1st shots at the police, the police did not shoot first.

Are you saying its OK to shoot at police who are executing a valid search warrant from a judge on your residence?

I don't agree with no-knock warrants, but that doesn't change the fact they had a valid warrant. You can't just let people shoot at the police executing warrants without penalty thats nuts.

Surprise. More police instigated murderers being exonerated. Pffft.

I don't see it as such.


I feel bad for the young lady, but if you find yourself in the middle of a gun fight, bad things can happen.

Wait what, now we can’t even defend ourselves in our own homes anymore? pffft

Sorry bro ....you come crashing into my house unannounced expect deadly force in return. One more example that no knock warrants are getting innocent folks killed while the police unions cover for bad cops. Police instigated murders. They screwed up and won’t take responsibility. So what do we want. Justice. But that’s obviously too much to ask. Screw the cops and their unions.

I answered my own question.

Turns out Knight worked to justify the murders of Ahmaud Aubrey, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks, and now Breonna Taylor.

Guess we can count on Knight to make another thread in the future that justifies the murder of an unarmed black American.