DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Police officers should not be charged with Breonna Taylor's death, criminal law experts say

I agree with most of this but I still don't agree that this is a good example of police unions covering for bad cops.. I think it's a faulty system (from cops, DAs and judges) putting cops (good or bad) into a horrible situation where there is a very good chance things are going to go wrong.

I get the concept of the no-knock warrant.. it is because of the fear that if you knock, the person inside will have a chance to get rid of whatever it is you're looking for before they let you in.. but there has to be a better way

If thats what you want to believe,fine, doesn't make it true.

Fact is
Mr. Walker fired the 1st shots
Mr. Walker shot though a door
Mr. Walker never identified the people behind the door
Mr. Walker shot a police officer

All of these things are high level felonies committed against Cops who had a legal warrant to search the premise.

There no state that I know of that allows you to evict Castle Doctrine as a defense when shooting someone outside your residence (which is what Mr. Walker done) they were not even inside, of course the police are going to return fire when they are shot at.

Im done with this. Everything is political and all about race....who cares if some idiot shoots through a door and doesn't even try to identify who he is shooting at, despite that being a felony he is in the right and the police are wrong because they are the police. they should just let some moron shoot at the and just take it.....

I guess thats the kinda of world you all want. good luck with that.

Cio

I think you don't live in reality. Before Obama got elected, you said there would be a collapse of America of civil war.

Let that sink in.

Ok let’s be fair about it. First off you can’t justify this as collateral damage. Friendly fire.

Even the police say they didn’t initially identify themselves before crashing in. And still nobody believes the victims here.

And really executing a no knock warrant, cops don’t show up with blue lights flashing and sirens blaring. They sneak up on the door and crash in with a battering ram. The victims thought they were bad guys ...which in reality they were. If a cop was killed in this incident these two innocent victims would have both been charged with murder if not executed on the spot. So if you really want to be fair about this you would agree the authorities should charge all the cops who illegally broke into a home and murdered the innocent victim.

Again you CAN NOT Evict Castle Doctrine as a defense when using deadly force on someone OUTSIDE OF YOUR RESIDENCE.

Do you understand Mr. Walker (Breona Taylor's B/f) shot "Through the door" at unidentified people (who ended up being the police) who were NOT inside the residence?

they were in hallway outside the apartment behind a closed door they had not breech. You can't just shoot someone because they are pounding on your door and evict Castle Doctrine as defense.....do that in Ohio and I guarantee you will end up in prison.

Your "Fear of your life" has to be reasonable...shooting someone though the door that is pounding on the door of your residence from outside your residence is NOT reasonable. You go ahead and do that and your will go to prison.

Once they breech the door and enter its a different story.

What if its just some drunk pounding on your door because he is too drunk to know he has the wrong address?, its ok to shoot him despite him not actually entering your residence? Thats nuts! You can't allow that kinda ****.

Yes, that scenario happened before and the guy who done it is in prison

https://blog.simplejustice.us/2016/01/04/when-the-castle-doctrine-goes-through-a-steel-door/

You can NOT evict Castle Doctrine in Ohio or any other state as a defense when you shoot someone who is OUTSIDE your residence. They have to actually "enter your house or apartment" before you can use deadly force.

Have you ever been taught a actual state approved self defense course? I have, I have talked to 6 different certified instructors in the State of Ohio and 3 separate lawyers that affiliated with my buddy who is a lawyer...they all say the same thing..."You can't evict Castle Doctrine as a defense when shooting someone outside your house. They actually have to enter your home"

Mr. Walker did EVERYTHING wrong one could do, He fired a shot without identifying who he was shooting at, He fired a shoot though a door or barrier at unknown people outside his apartment, He unlawfully discharged a firearm in a direction outside of his home.

Mr. Walker should be in custody awaiting trial right now on at least 3 felony counts. He didn't even know who he was shooting at, he could have been shooting some drunk, hell he could have been shooting someone coming home from midnight shift work. This is why the law says you MUST wait till they actually enter your home.

Because everything being political right now, he got off but he shouldn't. He is directly responsible for Breona Taylor's death with his careless ignorant use of a firearm. Had he simply waited until they breech the door and took up a defensive position he most likely would have saw badges and could have stood down. Instead he just decided to shoot through the door and he got his G/F shot because of it.

Self defense does not work this way...im telling you, if you shoot someone outside your house, even if they kick your door in but they don't actually enter, if you shoot them your going to prison for 30 years.

You have been warned.

https://hastingslegal.net/self-defense-and-the-ohio-castle-doctrine/

If they find the perps body outside your home, Good luck explaining why you felt your life is in danger.

Castle Doctrine is meant to be used when someone actually enters your home, won't leave, and attempts to hurt you. Deadly forece can never be used just as defense of property alone. if they are leaving and you shoot them it no longer applies. If you shoot them and they are on your front porch, good luck using Castle Doctrine, if you shoot though your door and kill the person on the other side of the door, good luck with that.

Castle Doctrine isn't just Carte Blanche. If it wasn't for politics Mr. Walker would be in prison because he broke multiple laws and you can't evict Castle Doctrine as a defense when shooting though a door at people outside your residence, you can't reasonably nor legally claim "fear of your life" when a door seperates you and the offenders. Scared? sure? justified using deadly force? Doubtful.

Wait for them to actually enter, if they kick down your door and flee you can't do anything.

I don't want to see anyone here end up on the wrong side of a long sentence. You won't be so lucky as Mr. Walker was...you won't have legions of activist journalists on your side, you will rot in prison if you do what Mr. Walker done...I assure you.

...and not once did I do that. I don't see how (unless you didn't read any of my post) you missed the numerous times I referred to someone busting through the door, which means ENTERING my home. Not once did I advocate shooting someone outside of my residence.

So when someone is breaking down your door you have to wait until it's broken down first. I won't disagree that's the law. Now if only everyone knew the laws.

See, we agree that there should not be charges pressed against the officers. I think where we disagree is that in a split second once that door comes down someone would wait to identify who was on the other side before firing.

Most people think that it's a cops duty to identify themselves. A no knock warrant is designed to make it that the suspects have no idea. That's a complication that creates such situations and events.

You'd better be 100% certain you have the right place. If they enter the home the warrant wasn't intended for, that's a crime. There's no grey area there. Whoever made that mistake is responsible for the deaths and shootings.

Just a bit of advice to everybody. You can buy metal door jams for under $20 each at Walmart or Lowes/Home Depot. They adjust to size. Just stick it up under the door knob, give it a light kick at the base to tighten it up. No local gang banger is going to be able to kick your door down with their foot. Even a heavy ram is going to need several try's to smash the door.

I carry one when I stay in a motel and put it in place. I just keep it or place in the trunk of a rental. I don't at hotels. You are inside rooms. A degree of security is expected. I don't have a problem with a Red Roof if going solo or with maybe my son. Red Roofs are fine by me. You just have to pick and choose the right ones. If with wife, it's going to be some Marriott property. Maybe a Hilton Hampton Inn.

Not that she has never slept in a Red Roof, it isn't her demand. Sometimes that is the only place you can find when it's finally time to get off the road. This is my wife I am talking about. I just want a little better when she is at my side. She deserves it. Marriott Courtyards work well. A nice balance between price and comfort.

Good thing they were at the address listed on the warrant.

Whoever filled out the arrest warrant need to take some responsibility.

Once the police battering ram knocked the door in they entered the castle. That’s time to shot IMO. Oh except if you live in low income apartment complex with no front porch, and are brown or black. You should have known they were the cops armed to the hilt, ready to kill you. Pffft

They all are responsible. They all had a responsibility to make sure not to make this mistake. Charge everyone involved.

I wasn't just talking about the police at the scene, I was referring to whoever was responsible for them going to the wrong address. It looks like whoever did the shoddy detective work identifying that home is responsible.

If the police were at the address on the warrant, they are not responsible.

Yes they are. And they all know they have that responsibility to double & triple check dispatch on this. Now nobody wants to take responsibility. This is so typical after a crap job of police work.

Then the police unions protect them from the law of the land with our tax dollars that pays for their salaries and union dues.

I know that, but i was stating "In the context of the Breona Taylor case" Her B/F Mr. Walker opened fire and shot through the door to those standing on the other side of it (police had not yet breached the door) You can't evict Castle Doctrine as a defense at that point. They actually have to be inside your house or apartment first.

I am glad we agree that you also see it as they have to enter your home first. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

See here is the thing though Pitt. Honestly, you should NOT be confronting someone who is beating on your door.

(I am going to assume you know this, but the information below is for others who may not)

Instead you should be:

1. Calling 9-11
2. Moving your family to another room and closing/barricading a door
3. Keep gun trained on door
4. Wait for police

If they then start breaking down that interior door, shoot. The goal of home defense is safety of you and your family first, and shooting the intruders 2nd. Property can be replaced.

I am waiting for the folks who will say "I am in my house I have no duty to retreat" and to that I will say, that's right BUT you need to use your head and put yourself in a position that it will be extremely hard or impossible for the perp to disarm you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/hs957z/practice_malfunction_drills/

Watch that video, that cop puts 4 rounds into that guy center mass and he keeps coming, he even makes her Glock/M&P Shield jam and malfunction by pushing the slide out of battery, However, this female sheriff had 22 years of law enforcement experience and training and quickly Tap, Rack, & Bang the gun back into function and then emptied the rest of the clip into the perp to bring him down.

Do you really think the average homeowner with little to no training is going to have a clear level head when someone is trying to kill them to clear such a malfunction and not have the gun taken from them and killed with it?

Despite what most see on TV, unless your rocking some really HOT .357/.44 mag rounds, or some really HOT 3 Inch Mag 12 Gauge Double 00 Buck at a close range of a few feet, its going to take more then 1 shot to bring the guy down unless you land a headshot which is unlikely. Even a headshot isn't always a guaranteed stop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjWDTZTitY&feature=youtu.be

The average homeowner is rocking some sort of 9mm and its going to take 4-6 shot to bring a perp down, especially if the guy is on something...confronting him right at the door when he comes in is a bad idea because it makes you vulnerable,What if he isn't alone, if you miss, something doesn't go right, you have a hangfire, a miss fire, a dude cartridge, etc..your in TROUBLE

This is why your better off retreating to another room in your house and barricading yourself & family in. This way when he/she starts to come through that door you will be able to open fire on them from a position of advantage and they will have a door to get though before they can get to you, you can then empty a magazine or a shotgun into them with no chance of them being able to disarm you.

Yes, I have done training on this. I am putting this out there to help others come up with their own home defense plan. You NEVER want to put yourself within arms reach of an intruder. Guns & ammo are made by people, and like people they make mistakes and things happen...a bad primer, a misfire, a light primer strike, a bad magazine spring, a jam, etc...these things usually happen at the worst times..if your barricaded behind another door you will have time to clear it, if this happens when you are confronting someone at the front door they just broke down, they make take the gun from you and use it on you.

People need to come up with a home defense plan, and PRACTICE it twice a month without fail for at least a year then once a month after that. The whole family needs to be on the same page on what to do, where to go, and who does what.

Remember the goal is to survive, property can be replaced. Going off half cocked without a plan confronting someone or someones that just broke down your front door is a recipe for disaster.

What if its a home invasion? What if its 5-6 armed assailants and its just you, your wife, and 2 little kids...what good are you dead? Much better to withdraw to a defensible position, wait on police, and hold the line.

Its what I was trained to do.

I think most people are still confused about the facts of this case.

We can discuss the validity of "no-knock" warrants (I don't think they should be legal, as they can lead to incidents like this), but they had a valid reason to search the address listed in the warrant (it wasn't the wrong address). And no-knock warrants were legal at that time.

Taylor is the ex-girlfriend of the suspected drug-dealer listed in the warrant. He had been seen at Taylor's residence receiving packages. This wasn't a wrong address. They even check with the post office to confirm that he was sending and receiving packages from the residence.

It's an unfortunate circumstance, but I don't know how you criminally charge someone in this case when most everyone involved was just doing their job. Maybe you could sue for wrongful death or something...

This is similar to a hospital making a mistake and accidentally killing someone. I don't think people get put in prison for doing that, but the hospital will probably get sued. Same rules apply here.

Now if we could just train the cops not to knock down the wrong doors.

They did have a warrant for that address though where Ms. Taylor lived. Just saying.

I do know they do get the wrong address though and they should have the tar sued out of them over that.

Oh ..so you expect our tax dollars to pay for stupid cops mistakes? Pffft that’s not justice bro. Bad cops need to see the other side of the bars for once. But they won’t. They are protected by other cops and police unions.

j\c
Good debate and I agree that your rational remarks on this are dead on but if this happened in a dangerous leftist sanctuary city the cops would have been strung up and beaten by their beloved ms13 gang members with the blessing of the officials elected there.
I also saw a post by some on the left that the person that okayed the warrant should be held accountable but had no problem with the FISA courts judge under barry hmmmmmm

NoW you’re telling people how they should defend themselves from violent murders LOL. You’re also first tell them how and when to protest. This is the man right here speaking folks. Step out of line they shot you down.


If somebody is on my property at my front door beating it down, I can legally open fire in self defense. No court in this land will defend violent intruders. Unless they’re unannounced cops of course. And you can’t tell me, some of these cops aren’t hoping for a good ole cowboy type shoot out.

Nice deflection.

Just curious, but who do you think would pay for those cops to live in prison if convicted?

If? bro. ....Our tax dollars are used to keep bad cops out of prison. So you can just stop that noise right now.

You can do whatever you want, What I was suggesting was "A course of action" a course that has the greatest chance of survival for you and your family. At the end of the day, you do what you want. I am not telling you how to defend yourself from violent murders, If you want to run off half cocked, not knowing how many people your up against, how well armed they are, and put yourself within arms length of violent people, please by all means do so. Don't let me stand in your way.

I would rather fire from a position of advantage with some sort of barrier, wall, etc making me harder to hit with some distance between us then to be up in their face CQC where the chance of you being overpowered and losing what advantage you had ends up being a real possibility.

I just want you think about something...in cases of home invasions, its usually not just one person, its 3-4 people and they are armed...they already outnumber you and outgun you. Directly confronting them from a position you don't have a direct advantage from, you do so at your own peril.

Its always best to assume your outnumbered and to play it safe...after all you want to protect your family right? In a situation you are outnumbered, you can't afford to give up any position of advantage nor make yourself vulnerable.

Again, im not telling you what to do. I just suggested a course of action that probably has the best chance to survive or drive off the intruders. Nothing more.

Again, if you use Deadly Force you better make sure they are inside your residence and not attempting to flee. Just beating on your front door in most states doesn't allow you to use Castle Doctrine as a defense, and if you shoot them before they actually enter (unless they are shooting at you first) you run a real risk of doing time.

Regardless, Stay safe. Hope you never get put in that position.