DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus COVID-19: The Anti-Christ Edition

Thank you Jester!

This is a very open ended and honest response. You also state how there are other options to which is important.

At the end of the day, I don't think the media should be ridiculing potential treatments. I also agree I never said it was cure, I just said it has the potential to help some people.

I was also not aware of the dexamethasone and remdesivir. If those are viable we should use them if they help save lives.

thanks Jester for your insight! I learned quite a bit from it. A very well thought out response!

But in your last post, you said that it was a conspiracy by people who wanted to push vaccines on us -- because vaccines drive bigger profits?

If you don't think hydroxychloroquine is a cure, then why would it affect vaccine development (which does promise a potential cure?)

Jester's response is very good - and echos things I have heard from other friends of mine who are directly treating patients.

So - early you responded to my comment about Obama, but ignored the actual meat and substance of my post. The people who have detailed studies disproving medical benefit of HCQ are European and other first world nations without any agenda for or against Trump....

As for this comment here - your assumption is false. These weren't done as trials with blinds and double blinds in large scale numbers to verify a trend (in THOSE types of trials HCQ has failed to benefit patients)_ ... you don't know if these people recovered or benefited from HCQ or not. Plenty (the vast majority) recover from CV-19 ... so using a statistic to say 'thousands' of people recovered using HCQ seems to be a real stretch.

As I said - you are free to believe what you wish. The Obama birther question is relevant - because if you are the type of person to fall for wild crazy unfounded conspiracy theories peddled by the far right ... it would help understand your obsession with this CV-19 HCQ issue and how you are trying to arrange the 'data' to suit your preconceived conclusion.

These have been the two most effective and proven treatments for decreasing the impact of Covid symptoms for some time now and why people have tried to stop the promotion of a far less effective treatment that often times does nothing.

j/c

Ohio pharmacy board bars use of hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus


Ohio pharmacy board bars use of hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus
© Getty Images

The State of Ohio Board of Pharmacy is barring pharmacists, licensed distributors of drugs and medical institutions from prescribing the controversial anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine to treat or prevent the novel coronavirus.

The state pharmacy board said in a memo that the rule would go into effect on Thursday and, in general, prohibit the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine for the treatment or prevention of COVID-19. No prescription can be dispensed by a pharmacist and a licensed distributor of dangerous dangerous drugs will not be permitted to sell it, according to the rule, which also applies to hospitals and nursing homes.

"Prescriptions issued for chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for prophylactic use related to COVID-19 or for the treatment of COVID-19 are strictly prohibited unless otherwise approved by the board's executive director in consultation with the board president," the memo states.

The use of the anti-malaria drugs as part of an approved clinical trial will be exempt from the restrictions.

“Basically, it’s a patient safety issue,” Cameron McNamee, director of policy and communications for the state board, told The Columbus Dispatch. “We’re looking at the best science to determine what’s best for the patients of Ohio.”

The rule is being met with pushback from Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R), who cited comments from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) commissioner in which he said decisions regarding use of hydroxychloroquine should be between a doctor and patient.

“Therefore, I am asking the @OhioRxBoard to halt their new rule,” DeWine said in a series of tweets. "The Ohio Board of Pharmacy and @ohiomedboard should revisit the issue, listen to the best medical science, and open the process up for comment and testimony from experts.”

The State of Ohio Board of Pharmacy is responsible for administering and enforcing laws regarding pharmacy and the distribution of drugs. The agency did not immediately return a request for further comment from The Hill.

Hydroxychloroquine has gained attention for months now thanks to its promotion by President Trump and other top White House officials. Trump claimed earlier this year that the drug had the opportunity to be a "game changer" for efforts to treat the deadly virus.

However, studies have consistently shown that the anti-malaria drug has done little to improve coronavirus patients' conditions. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert and a key member of the White House coronavirus task force, said this week that clinical trials have "overwhelmingly" indicated it is ineffective in treating coronavirus patients.

The FDA in June revoked its emergency use authorization for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after clinical trials showed it was not helping to treat COVID-19 and could cause adverse health effects.

In the face of criticism, Trump has doubled down on his defense of the drug. During a White House press conference on Tuesday, the president claimed that the drug was "safe," citing the 14-day period in which he took it earlier this year.

“Many doctors think it’s extremely good, and some people don’t," Trump said. "I think it’s become very political."

McNamee said the Ohio board's decision was not associated with Trump's continued promotion of the drug. He told The Dispatch that the state wants people to "focus on what works, such as social distancing and mask use."

“We ultimately want to make sure people are being safe and not exposing themselves to drugs that have shown not to be effective in treating COVID-19," he said.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/50...virus-treatment

j/c

Dr. Fauci says all the ‘valid’ scientific data shows hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in treating coronavirus

White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday that all the “valid” scientific data shows malaria drug hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in treating the coronavirus, contradicting President Donald Trump’s opinion of the drug.

“You look at the scientific data and the evidence. And the scientific data ... on trials that are valid, that were randomized and controlled in the proper way, all of those trials show consistently that hydroxychloroquine is not effective in the treatment of coronavirus disease or Covid-19,” the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said during an interview on MSNBC.

The comment by Fauci came a day after Trump said he still thinks hydroxychloroquine works against Covid-19.

During a press conference Tuesday evening, Trump was asked by a reporter about a video the president shared on Twitter that went viral across social media platforms that claimed hydroxychloroquine is “a cure for Covid” and “you don’t need a mask” to slow the spread of coronavirus. The video was later labeled as containing misleading information and has since been taken down.

“I wasn’t making claims,” Trump said of his tweet, noting that he was passing along recommendations from other people, including doctors.

“Many doctors think it is extremely successful, the hydroxychloroquine coupled with the zinc and perhaps the azithromycin,” he said. “Many doctors think it’s extremely good, and some people don’t.”

“I happen to believe in it. I would take it. As you know, I took it for a 14-day period. And as you know, I’m here. I happen to think it works in the early stages,” he said.

Trump insisted the drug was safe, saying he had “no problems” when he took it.

There are no FDA-approved drugs for the coronavirus. The agency granted emergency authorization to antiviral drug remdesivir to treat Covid-19, but it’s not the same as a formal approval. Last month, the FDA pulled hydroxychloroquine’s authorization for emergency use after determining it was “unlikely” to be effective in treating people with Covid-19.

In addition to treating malaria, hydroxychloroquine is often used by doctors to treat rheumatoid arthritis and lupus. It is known to have serious side effects in some patients, including muscle weakness and heart arrhythmia.

The drug generated excitement earlier in the year after a handful of small studies suggested it could be beneficial, especially when combined with antibiotic azithromycin. Trump promoted it as a potential treatment for the virus and said he used it as a preventive measure against the disease. However, several larger, randomized, placebo-controlled trials showed the drug was not helpful and caused heart issues in some patients.

Fauci said Wednesday that the public has “got to follow the science,” adding, “if a study that’s good comes out and shows efficacy and safety for hydroxychloroquine or any other drug that we do ... you accept the scientific data.”

“Right now, today, the cumulative scientific data that has been put together and done over a number of different studies have shown no efficacy,” he said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/dr-fauci...oronavirus.html

well obviously this board is just part of the deep state hellbent on ruining Trump.

j/c:

So, Perfect is wishing either death or suffering on another human being and all the left members ignore that and choose to pile on KOB for talking about a possible cure?

Lame.

I missed that post. I checked the last 3 pages and didn't see anything... please furnish the quote and I'll be happy to comment.

Of course you did.

So you're not really interested in anyone commenting on his post, you're just being hateful and divisive. got it.... Or just quote the post you mentioned.

No, I am not interested in conversing w/you because you constantly misrepresent what I say. The post by Perfect is there. Hell, almost every post he makes is hateful. I'll give you a clue if you want to research it. Search "Karma is a ....." I think he actually used the word, though.

U ever gonna go answer my extremely easy question about frakking or did u realize you are full of crap and decided to ignore it because u know the tough questions are coming ... u know .. the ones that show your full of crap?

I don't think there's any compassion or kindness in this post.... But he's not wishing death or suffering on anyone.

See. And you started as fact that's what he did.... Then you claimed that what you post gets misrepresented.

You can't make this stuff up

Hey stalker! Last time you asked a question and I took the time to provide a long answer you basically mocked me without reason and when I did the same in return you got very pissy. so thanks but no thanks.

But it is good that you're here as Vers protector and accomplice. Apparently that makes you a "gang"

Dude, you could talk yourself into being poor thirty minutes after hitting PowerBall.

There's history with both of them.

Please read Spirals post and tell me if he is wishing death and suffering on another person ? That's the point.

LMAO................you calling someone else a stalker is absolutely priceless!

*L* ... your in way over your head and u know it ... this is the 2nd time u backed your way into a corner i won’t let u out of on this topic ... u worded it poorly ... ... the entire message u gave changed yet u said u just worded it wrong ... sad ...

And this question was a YES or NO question .... that doesn’t require near as much time as u spent looking through 3 pages of posts for something no one cares about so u can blast Vers ... u know your full of crap and this is a much easier way out ...

U calling me a stalker for asking why u don’t answer questions after looking back 3 pages to go after Vers is to funny ...

That one made my night ... i still can’t stop laughing over that one ...

https://c19study.com/

Now more studies are coming out, I feel vindicated. Go to that site, they have all the source links to all the studies.

Look at the graph, ALL the nations that started treating their patients with HCQ early have saw their death rates plummet while the US, UK, France, etc and their anti-HCQ stance brought about by big money Pharma have huge death tolls. Look how flat that death toll went after they started using it.

Again, I fully expect those mesmerized by the MSM and its largely left bias (remember only 1 out of 15 journalist has a conservative leaning according to polls) to try and discount these studies.

Fact is because it was Trumps suggestion early on they were dead set against it day one. That's what this boils down to, and the left has a HUGE problem ever admitting that they may be wrong on anything. The left would rather ban HCQ, allow people to die, just so it means they might get Trump out of office, thats how low the left in the US will stoop, thats just awful.

DeWine stepped in and ordered the RX to remove their ban on HCQ in Ohio because these studies big pharma has paid to bury are coming to light now.

The numbers don't lie, the nations that use HCQ early have significantly lower death tolls, more people survive, these studies are being done by scientists all over the world.

Big Pharma tried to cover this up so they could have exclusivity on a vaccine and rack in the big dollars by telling everyone no treatment exists to fear people into buy their vaccine, and the left used it as a way to try and destroy Trump's Presidency since their impeachment scam didn't work.

Im done with this topic, more then enough studies exist showing it helps as a treatment when used correctly, the falling death tolls in countries where it is used compared to the US vindicates this position.

Again im just a dumb conspiracy theorist, go ahead pounce on me.

It will become more apparent in a few weeks when Dr's start using it early as a treatment in conjunction with other medicines and such that it does help. There will be no lying or denying the way out of it.

Man how low the death tolls are compared to the US when the drug is used in Turkey, Greece, India, Indonesia, Ukraine, Morocco, Greece, Malaysia, Cuba

Those studies that say it doesn't help are Horse ****, plain and simple. When presented with multiple countires showing much lower death tolls when its used, those studies saying it doesn't work have to be Horse ****, there is no other explanation.

Maybe. But there are a LOT of nations left off that chart. Why is that ? Would it present a different 'result' if they were included, why were they ommitted... A lot of the countries at the bottom of the graph could easily have questionable data and reporting. Just some immediate thoughts.

What Alex Jones supplements are you taking during this pandemic?

I think getting smacked by COVID would lead to some suffering.

CDC warns Congress of ‘significant public health consequences’ if schools don’t reopen in the fall

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/cdc-warn...n-the-fall.html

Lets get with it America!

from the article:

About “7.1 million kids get their mental health service at schools,” he said. “They get their nutritional support from their schools. We’re seeing an increase in drug use disorder as well as suicide in adolescent individuals. I do think that it’s really important to realize it’s not public health versus the economy about school reopening.”

______

1. nutritional support from schools highlights the appalling fact of our over nutrition in this country, as well as the fact that low/low-middle income families still dont have access and/or funds to healthy food. that had nothing to do with Rona. she just made it worse.

2. drug use disorder? im not sure what he implies here. does he mean more drugs being taken? or mismanagement of mental medications like adderal?

3. adolescent suicides were already out of control DURING open schools since we have a lot of crap kids in this country. Now, i can see those numbers going up do to isolation, but it begs the question how many suicides were potentially prevented do to at risk kids not being around a bunch of crappy kids being raised by even crappier parents? that had nothing to do with Rona. and not sure what affects, positive or negative, she might have had on that aspect.

4. its quite pathetic that as a country, we put so much responsibility on teachers and school administrations to more or less be parents of the non-engaged american parent. that fact that so many kids get mental health service treatment at schools is not a reason for reopening schools. its a reason to FIX THE GD SYSTEM!!!

There is no way I'm responding to every one of PS's ridiculous posts. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't type that fast.

PEOPLE IN THE CAPITOL ARE SICK AND TIRED.

QUITE LITERALLY.

SICK: THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS -- the legislature for the most powerful country on Planet Earth -- has been allowing lawmakers to come into the Capitol without being tested for the deadly coronavirus. This week, a quirky Republican -- Rep. LOUIE GOHMERT of Texas -- walked in infected with the coronavirus, got in close proximity to a powerful member of the president’s Cabinet and found out he was positive only because he was slated to travel to the Lone Star State with President DONALD TRUMP. Otherwise, since the institution has no testing policy, he would’ve walked around the complex, and may have infected colleagues with whom he crossed paths.

TIRED: PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE BUILDING -- legislative aides, chiefs of staff, press assistants, members of Congress, career workers and maintenance men and women -- are furious with an institution that does not have uniform rules or masking requirements, does not mandate testing and is run with minimal oversight.

PEOPLE FEEL UNSAFE and uncomfortable at work.

ON WEDNESDAY EVENING, after GOHMERT was found to have had Covid-19 after romping around the Capitol, Speaker NANCY PELOSI announced that lawmakers must wear masks in the House portion of the Capitol complex -- office buildings included.

WE GRANTED AIDES, LAWMAKERS and Capitol workers anonymity to discuss the climate of working in a building with few rules, and a gaggle of lawmakers who doubt scientists and hold themselves out as experts on everything from disease hygiene to pharmacology. THE PEOPLE WHO EMAILED US are not the kinds of people who typically reach out to reporters.

-- FROM A HOUSE DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKER: “[Pelosi] is getting hammered by everyone. People are really really mad. Ripshit might be a better word … [Gohmert] was in Judiciary, Natural Resources and on the floor. Doctor has told members who were near him yesterday to call for instructions, Members want masks made mandatory.”

-- ONE SENIOR AIDE to a member who came in close contact with GOHMERT was told by the attending physician that they cannot get a test unless they are symptomatic.

-- FROM A SCHEDULER TO A HOUSE REPUBLICAN MEMBER: “Our office has been required to be fully staffed since session resumed at the end of June (including an intern). While mask use isn’t banned, it’s also not encouraged, and has been derided on several occasions by the [chief of staff] and the member.”

-- FROM AN AIDE TO A REPUBLICAN MEMBER WHO HAD COVID: “I’m obviously not allowed to speak on behalf of anyone but it may be worth looking into how many Republican offices are also requiring all staff and interns to come in to work while taking no precautions. Ridiculing people for wearing masks is also not uncommon. I think you’d find a lot of offices in the anti-mask brigade are forcing staff to report to work even if they have legitimate concerns about their health. I’m sure you also [could] find some are having staff … travel to districts in high risk areas and then not providing for quarantine afterwards. …

“THERE IS A GENERAL FEAR that saying anything critical of the current office policy - or lack of policy - will lead to retaliation.”

-- FROM A HOUSE GOP STAFFER: “I work in a Republican House office and while we’re not encouraged to not wear a mask, we are essentially required to work in the office. We worked from home for a couple days when one of my coworkers was potentially exposed to Covid, but even then, many of my colleagues kept working in the office. We were told to report to work as normal even before the test came back negative because the results were taking too long. I was left feeling guilty for teleworking even though I have an underlying health condition.”

-- FROM A CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER TECH STAFFER: “If you asked me to give you a breakdown of mask usage in member offices, it’s nearly universal in Democratic offices based on my random observations; within Republican offices, it’s probably under 50%. And some GOP offices ask why you are wearing a mask, which puts our staff in an awkward position -- do you say because of the pandemic and risk the office taking that as a political stand? Do you take it off to make them feel better?

“I USUALLY SAY SOMETHING LIKE ‘Well, they told us we had to or we’ll get fired or end up in HR or something,’ which generally satisfies most offices, and lets you dodge the political minefield that wearing a mask has become.”

-- A HOUSE DEM AIDE NOTES: “I saw staffers today AVOIDING the members only elevators because they are trying to avoid being near members. That never happens!”


https://www.politico.com/newsletters/pla...ith-rage-489926

Vanity Fair reported on Thursday that Kushner’s team ultimately decided to thrust the responsibility of handling the testing shortage crisis upon individual states for political reasons in April, as blue states like New York bore the brunt of the pandemic at the time.

“The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” a public health expert who was in contact with the White House COVID-19 task force told Vanity Fair

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/kushn...elp-blue-states


Didn’t want to help blue states so they can blame the governors for political points. Didn’t never think it would overtake red also. The stupid runs deep

He’s so stupid he thinks there can be a peeing section in a public pool.
If true and verifiable it’s criminal. The entire administration needs investigated and brought up on humanitarian charges.

Democrat States were given everything they asked for during the Covid crisis.

They ended up with Hospital wards built in days by the Military that they never filled, Hospital Ships they barely used and sent home, and a glut of Respirators they never needed.

Some people will believe anything negative they read while ignoring their own eyes and the truth.

Do you mean like over 150,000 U.S. deaths because there was no national plan to combat the virus?

j/c:

Red Flags Soar As Big Pharma Will Be Exempt From COVID-19 Vaccine Liability Claims

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/red-...iability-claims

Just another example how we aren’t all in this together.

I'm still curious how much they will charge for the vaccine, once it is available, even though we basically paid up front.

"Pfizer Gets $1.95 Billion to Produce Coronavirus Vaccine by Year’s End"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/us/politics/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine.html

This is all fluid but the rumor I heard was $40/dose and likely you will need 2 doses several weeks apart. Or possibly an annual covid shot like your annual flu shot.

That's really nothing new it's just that a lot of people are unaware of it...

How Big Pharma Benefits From Tax Dollars

But while Big Pharma seems to be paying less than the corporate average in taxes, the industry is also reaping huge rewards from federal taxpayer funding through the National Institute of Health (NIH).

“The U.S. taxpayer has funded research for every single one of the 210 new drugs that the FDA approved between 2010-16. Yet the companies that have access to this research are increasingly viewing pharmaceuticals in the same way that banks view their financial product — opportunities for short-term returns.” (Mariana Mazzucato, “Big Pharma Is Hurting Drug Innovation,” The Washington Post, 10/17/18)
“More than $100 billion in NIH funding went toward research that contributed, either directly or indirectly, to the 210 drugs approved between 2010 and 2016. That’s roughly 20 percent of NIH spending since 2000.” (Megan Thielking, “NIH funding contributed to 210 approved drugs in recent years, study says,” STAT News, 2/12/18)

The Taxpayer Funded Big Pharma Bailout

If you think Big Pharma doesn’t already have things good enough, get this.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has proposed a misguided regulation called the Rebate Rule that government analysts and industry groups agree would cost taxpayers dearly and hand Big Pharma a more than $100 billion bailout.

CBO: $187 Billion in Additional Federal Spending. That total includes an estimated $177 billion price tag for Medicare and Medicaid under the initially proposed rule, plus an estimated $10 billion cost for the loss-assumption program announced by CMS on April 5, 2019. (Congressional Budget Office, Incorporating The Effects Of The Proposed Rule On Safe Harbors For Pharmaceutical Rebates In CBO’s Budget Projections, 5/2/19)
CMS: $197 Billion In Additional Federal Spending. (Center For Medicare & Medicaid Services Office Of The Actuary, Memo On Proposed Safe Harbor Regulation, 1/31/19)
Avalere Health: The Rule Would Cost Taxpayers More Than $410 Billion, More Than The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Projected The Creation Of The Part D Program Would Cost. (Avalere Health, Costs for Taxpayers Could Skyrocket Under Proposed Rebate Rule, 4/8/19)
CMS: Rule Hands Big Pharma $137 Billion In Increased Drug Spending. (Center For Medicare & Medicaid Services Office Of The Actuary, Memo On Proposed Safe Harbor Regulation, 1/31/19)

https://www.csrxp.org/dose-of-reality-breaking-down-the-big-pharma-dollar-part-iv/

That's only one part of a much larger article but it is the section that covers how much American tax payers pay for their R&D.

Exactly, we pay for the research and then we pay again at the counter.

I don't know how long it will take for our people to figure out that our government is not interested in doing what is best for Americans, and never have our interests in mind when they do things.

Yet many seem to want to give our government control over even more.

I'm a proponent of capitalism. But when your government and capitalism work together in an effort to create a system where taxpayers get stiffed on both ends of things, something has gone horribly wrong.

Sadly there seems to be no balance in either direction. No system will work without being regulated and controlled to some degree. Unfettered capitalism is no different. Yet in the same breath, when you start allowing things to be regulated, they are over regulated to death.