DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Who Killed George Floyd?

As always "the Devil is in the Details"

I am waiting for people ready to label me some sort of racist, but I seek ONLY THE TRUTH

The scientific evidence shows that George Floyd was overdosing and dying of a 3 times the lethal limit of fentanyl. The police DID infact call for emergency service for Floyd who was foaming at the mouth, resisting, and acting strange.

Our justice system says in light of this evidence the charges against these officers should be dropped. They are NOT the reason Floyd died, he died from cardiac and respiratory caused by fentanyl which is a powerful and dangerous pain medication that side effects is "shutting down your respiratory system, coma, and death"

Geroge Floyd would have died regardless, even if officers didn't put a single hand on him, no one can survive the levels of fentanyl that was in Floyd's system.

I am all about justice, but this isn't justice. George Floyd died of respiratory duress and cardiac problems caused by a 3 times the lethal limit level of fentanyl in his system, not from an officers knee in the neck.

Science doesn't lie. You can't convict someone when scientific evidence shows otherwise based on emotion, our justice system isn't set up to work that way.

We'll see. It's why people get their day in court.

If Floyd was choking before hand and the office didn't know, that mitigates his position. Not totally, but it turns it in to a lesser charge.

You aren't seeking the truth. Only a way to excuse what happened and deflect.

Dude, NO ONE could survive the 11NG of fentanyl that was in Floyd's system, that would kill an elephant, hell even Superman wouldn't survive that.

I am saying folks jumped the gun as always and didn't wait for all the facts to be known about this case before jumping to conclusions.

As I have said, I never agreed that cops should kneel on someones neck, but in this case the police are not the ones who killed him, the fentanyl is what killed him.

Are the cops guilty of something? Sure, probably excessive use of force, but not murder. their actions didn't kill him, the drug overdose did.

Exactly, they will have their day in court.

Expect the defense to have all sorts of experts saying no one could survive the levels of fentanyl that were in Floyd's system.

Also, the police TWICE called for emergency services because of Floyd's behavior, that doesn't paint a good picture for the prosecutions case.

Im sure they will end up being charged for something lesser, they probably should get something and probably not be cops again...but murder...cops have more privilege than private civilians in many areas, qualified immunity...

Im just saying I think folks should have waited for all the facts before protesting and such, all we had was a video, but the video doesn't tell the whole story.

Again, I think the cops should be charged with something, they probably should never be allowed to be cops again, but murder...in light of these facts...thats a hard sell to an impartial jury.

Again, im not justifying anything.

I am just saying this case isn't a clear cut as some will think.

We will get our day in court to watch these proceedings and see how it turns out. What the court decides is final, and we should all accept that regardless how it turns out.

We have a very fair justice system here, if these cops are in fact guilty of murder the prosecution should have no problem proving that in court and I welcome it! If these guys did indeed commit murder I want them convicted like everyone else.

You must be looking in the mirror when you said that.

You don't know that. Just wait to see what the evidence shows. I am willing to see the cop put away for 20 years if convicted and he caused the death.


If he didn't, don't be so eager. Lets see how it plays.



It's probably going to end up in a hung jury a few times and the DA finally drops it. You can only try it so many times before you realize you are just wasting time and money.

If he was showing signs of distress before they restrained him, kneeling on his back while he died is STILL NOT the appropriate course of action those charged to "serve and protect" should have taken. Floyd was in custody and incapable of helping himself at the time.

The autopsies are out there for all to see. There were two of them. One from the coroner and one from the families expert. Neither one of them listed an overdose as a contributing cause of death.

The evidence as it pertains to the cause of death is already in.

I really think you have this place confused with Stormfront, Knight.

This is your fifth thread justifying the murder of an unarmed black American.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/george-floyd-toxicology-report-drugs.html

A different perspective.

It'll be settled in court.

What a ridiculous assessment.

George Floyd died because an officer killed him. He had a knee on his neck until he stopped breathing.

Did Eric Garner die from asthma? Or was it obesity? No, he died because an officer had him in a choke hold until he stopped breathing.

"Contributing factors" don't change the flowchart - the flowchart ends with a man being killed because of the actions of another man.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog...

I never justifed anyone being killed.

I am only bringing about constructive discussion nothing more. Removing bias, the cause of death is inconclusive. Remember the prosecutor has to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that officers actions resulted in this man's death. The levels of lethal Fentanyl levels and other drugs will make this very difficult, not impossible just difficult.

I have already made it clear these guys shoukd never be allowed to be cops again, i don't condone kneeling on anyone's neck, and i most certainly don't condone cops shooting people in the back who are fleeing or otherwise non threatening.

I'm just saying there is more to this case then a simple video and probably much more to the case then we know. This toxicology report is big news because it changes everything we knew about the case and the perception around it.

I just wanted to discuss and hope to get people to share their views, at the end of the day we all think these guys should stand trial for what transpired because only with a trial will all the truth be brought to light.

I will wait for the court proceedings and/or something from a non-biased source. Never heard of the American Spectator.

The video shows an officer pinning a man down a man begging for his life until he passed out and died...

If he was so looped out on drugs that he was about to die, the officer should have been seeking medical attention. Instead he inflicted death.

I reject the notion that there is bias that can be removed.... You cannot look at the video evidence and not be biased. You are a witness to a man begging for his life, crying for his mother, and ultimately passing out to die under the knee of an officer.

Yes it is a simple video, a horrific video, and a powerful tool for the prosecution of the crime committed. Trying to ignore or discount the video evidence as 'simple' is disingenuous.

If the toxicology report is legitimate evidence, it will be presented in court.

Hmmmmm.

Where have I read that before?

Oh yea, the Emmett Till mob!

The toxicity report is legit - the article I posted mentions it. But upon death the body produces fentanyl .. and add to that a drug user builds up tolerance ... and add to that the guy was functioning at a 'high level' and not sluggish or struggling to stand etc .... the idea that he was going to die and the fentanyl would have put an elephant down is somewhat spurious it seems.

Here's a peer reviewed study from a medical journal. It says the average concentration of fentanyl in accidental polysubstance deaths was over 26.4ng/ml which is more than twice the 11ng/ml Floyd had in his system. The conclusion below seems to debunk this article.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3576505/

Reliability of Postmortem Fentanyl Concentrations in Determining the Cause of Death

ntroduction
Transdermal fentanyl, an opioid used for management of marked pain, also is abused and may cause death.

Methods
We reviewed medical examiner reports of 92 decedents who had one or more fentanyl transdermal patches on their body and had fentanyl detected in their postmortem toxicology analysis.

Results
The manners of death included 40 accidents, 36 natural, 8 suicides, 5 therapeutic complications, and 3 undetermined deaths. Among the accidental fentanyl intoxication deaths, 32 of 37 involved substance abuse. The majority (95 %) of the 37 accidental deaths involving fentanyl were multi-drug intoxications. The substance abuse deaths had a mean fentanyl blood concentration (26.4 ng/ml or μg/L) that was over twice that of the natural group (11.8 ng/ml). Our analysis suggests a relationship between total patch dosage and mean postmortem fentanyl concentration up to the 100-μg/h dose.

Conclusions
The very wide and overlapping ranges of postmortem fentanyl concentrations effectively nullify the utility of correlating the dose and expected postmortem concentration for any particular death. Based on the variable relationship between dose and blood concentration, the antemortem dose cannot be reliably predicted based on the postmortem concentration. This does not, however, render the medical examiner/coroner unable to determine the cause and manner of death because the toxicology results are only one datum point among several that are considered. Although there was a weakly positive relationship between body mass index and fentanyl concentration, further research is needed to determine whether adipose tissue represents a significant depot for postmortem release of fentanyl.

Informative. Thanks for posting.

Also, it is noteworthy that two right-leaning members [yourself and Fate] denounced the original article. I never see any of the left-leaning guys on this board do that. For example, if Biden says something lame, they deflect by talking about Trump or another poster who they lie about.

To use your favorite word, thats a lie. Several posters who are "left leaning" including myself have commented on what a poor candidate Biden is and critcized him ... but then we know that doesnt suit your current agenda.

No, not a lie.

Here is an example of deflecting away from Biden and projecting the spotlight onto Trump.

Once again, not a lie.

Here you go:



There are a couple of more posts from Rocket and OCD that further illustrates my point.

Btw----------both of Rocket's claims about me are lies. I did say that I have done more for minorities than other people on this board, but I never said I did more than anyone in America. I also NEVER said that blacks were "loud and obnoxious."

But, you keep ripping me and supporting those guys.

A bald faced, agenda driven lie. A bit like when you complain about posters quoting multiple articles with a similar theme.... yet not once did you say something similar about the dozens and dozens of Ngo tweets that were posted. Oh thats right youagreed with those tweets so as the board police, you didn't object.

A general comment for all

It would benefit everyone if people kept to the topic instead of their disagreements with othe posters.

If I want a soap opera I can find one on TV.

No, not a lie. I just showed you that what I said was true. You keep doing you, though.

Posting examples of SOME people deflecting does not disprove the lie that left leaning posters NEVER criticize Biden. Biden is a deeply flawed candidate, many left leaning posters have said as much over the last few months. And for every deflecting post from one side there is probably one from the other.

Your post was an absolute. And it was incorrect. I wouldn't call that a lie personally..... but you do. You did it earlier today. So i returned the favor.

So, you are good w/calling me out, but are okay w/Rocket making up lies about me? Why don't you call him out? Why not call out Rocket and others for deflecting? Why do you always just concentrate on calling me out?

why didn't you complain about the Ngo tweets after we'd seen more than 2 of them the same way you've tried to tell others what to post? Why you didnt you say something after 6 Ngo tweets ? OR 12? Or 16?

I got into it with OCD early this year ... pretty much for being aggressive and obnoxious to Trump supporters, he can give you the details if u need them. I dont need to police everyone on what they post, just like i dont need to be policed on who i do and dont respond to. Just like, until you are making it a thing, i didnt try to police you for nottreating the Ngo posts like you do so many others from the 'left leaning' posters.

You did not answer my question, but instead threw an accusation at me. I'm very surprised. So, by your obvious omission of my question, I am guessing you think it is okay that Rocket is making up lies about what I have said? Again, I'm so surprised. LOL

I don't get your Ngo thing. I never supported the dude. I have just said that it's hard to argue w/video evidence. I don't like far-right wingers, just like I don't like rioters and looters on the other side. But, the videos are not a Hollywood movie. They are actual videos. So, why do you want me to say they are not real?

Well you've accused me multiple times of lying and been incorrect. Forgive me if I don't rush to investigate your claim. I don't know what he said, and don't really feel like I need to investigate .... if it was the thing about helping Black communities more than anyone in the world? Then I'd suggest less lie and more likely he was making fun of you. Does it matter that much ... clearly its not something you've claimed.

Deflection? Since when id the truth a deflection? Everybody knows I'm not a fan of Biden, where have you been? smh

Bro, you are trying way too hard to attack me. If you are going to attack me you need to learn to jab-jab-slide-stick and stop flailing your arms with your eyes closed like some emotional teenage girl in her first fight. If you are going to bring it, just bring it.

I understand. I am not saying the cop is innocent. I am just saying the info also seems to be there that the defense can plant some reasonable doubt.

All they need is 1-2 jurors to not convict.

The defense is probably going to look for a deal. The DA is probably going to be willing to give one. The judge will agree. I don't think anybody wants this to go to trial.

JMO

Must admit your reply that was quoted seems within the bounds of what a normal conversation between people would be - say in a pub/bar/BBQ etc. I tend to think of this place like a big conversation - even when people get snarky with each other, it's like having a big crowd and people chipping in.

Personally I think you have posted far more egregious comments!

To add to that:

I've not seen the actual body-cam footage...I've only read the transcript...so...

Can anyone confirm or deny that Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe PRIOR to being placed on the ground?

Can anyone confirm or deny that Floyd requested to be able to lie down?

Lastly, is it evident that Floyd was indeed foaming at the mouth?