DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mayfield Says He "Absolutely" Doubted Himself Last Year

You HAVE been regularly posting about the reads issues. I've also read it elsewhere beyond you and Jake.

I simply cannot blast Baker for his weaknesses in that area because he's been on such a circus of a team. Maybe the reads will be his undoing. Maybe not. But as I point out above, his situation in the NFL has been ridiculous. We don't do anything well and he has been at the wheel for (4) different coaches in 2 years and a game. It's remarkable.

I agree w/you about changing coaches, schemes, etc. It's just that I have always said [long before Baker every got here] that reading post-snap coverages is more of an innate thing than a learning curve. It's all about processing speed.

I liken the reads thing to foot speed. A person can get faster (running) with the right training, but in the end they have what they have to a point.

I think the processing thing is very similar. For Baker, the training has either been all over the place or non-existent...and his prep and coaching for 2019 was just pitiful.

I'd like to think that his reads would be much better if the circumstances he's played under looked more like LJ and JA than what he's had to date.

I think that's a good analogy. I don't know that we've seen Baker's ceiling yet because he's not been given the stability/platform to be coached up to his ceiling (if we are seeing his ceiling we are in trouble) ... he's not Peyton or Brady ... but hopefully he's better than we've seen.

That's the question I was trying to ask. I don't think it's too much to ask to see improvement in this regard throughout the season.

I think a part of the problem might be that our WRs struggle against physical corners. It sounded from some of the camp pressers that timing/connecting Baker's steps with where guys are in their routes was an important part of our offense. Getting jammed can throw off that timing. Marcus Peters and Marlon Humphrey are one of the better duos at cornerback in the NFL. Not an ideal matchup for a new offense.

I kind of would like to see us use more motion to try to get OBJ free releases. Fortunately, I think the rest of the secondaries (CBs specifically) on our schedule aren't as good as the Ravens.

mac,

I'm not saying you are wrong or non-warranted in your position here. BUT...THIS Jake Burns guy does a really good job of breaking down this stuff.

I don't see what he sees real time, but...it's interesting to read his stuff and go back and re-watch a game thinking of his points.

JMO

Actually it was a rational breakdown. Now you may not agree with the conclusions Jake Burns came to, but it certainly did not appear to be based on an agenda or shock value.

We would all be interested in you breaking it down and your evaluation. However, attacking the messenger does none of that.

j/c:

The Burns article is a very fair assessment of Baker's performance yesterday. He didn't play well and mirrored many issues from last year. Anyone alluding to agenda needs to get a better grasp of Burns earlier, and also, fair breakdowns.

Mood booster! Not really.

The pass Baker made that Calais Campbell dropped into coverage on is an easy read. Every QB in the NFL should be able to make that read.

Add the fact that a 6'8" guy stands out a bit. Had Landry open on the other side of the field. May not have got the first down, but never took his eyes off of Hodge.

Wasn't Mayfield the highest rated PFF QB coming out of college ever or something?

Not good that PFF is jumping ship. Also, not a good look for Cleveland, where careers go to die. If we traded for Mahomes, he would all of a sudden suck. Just the way it works in Cleveland.

I want Trevor Lawrence so bad, but Cleveland would probably ruin him too.

mac, why do you always answer questions w/a question? LOL

But anyway, Yes, I do think the agendas have picked up right where they left of last season. Your posts are proof of that.

Baker doesn't trust his O Line and he should because they gave him clean pockets yesterday. Run the ball more and more play action . Get Baker rolling out or sit him out. The play calls weren't Bakers strengths.

Not sure if there are any strengths left in him.

The coaches have to show him the film and point out the pocket and that his line were doing their job

Which i dont get because I thought the whole point of hiring Stefanski was to DO THAT STUFF with baker

Baker will have his highs and lows. We may as well pick up Josh Rosen.

I think in 21 Baker will be fine. 3rd OC in 3 years is brutal as a QB.

I want to at least watch the Bengals game before we start indicting the playcalling.

We were down early to B'more, and nothing was working. Hard to get a good read on Stefanski and Co. under those conditions.

Impossible to have any playcalling when your QB can't even read his own offense. He was completely unprepared,again, he does not know what he is doing under center.

Looks like he's still doubting himself.

I don't think that is fair. I don't even know what "read his own offense" means. Makes no sense. And how do you know he was unprepared? I don't believe that.

I think Baker's struggles are because he struggles reading coverages post-snap. I think he was prepared. He's in better shape and his coaches have praised him for how he is learning. It's not fair to make things up.

and he’s doubting himself more now because everybody else doubts him, no doubt

I have been thinking about this quite a bit. Not sure if this is right or not, but it makes some sense.

We all saw how accurate Baker was in college and as a rookie, especially after Freddie took over as OC.

Last year, we noticed some issues w/accuracy.

In game one, we saw more issues w/accuracy and some of his passes are even fluttering.

What would explain that? I have a theory:

I think he threw to wide open receivers in college. As a rookie, Freddie changed things up and called for him to typically make quick, one-read throws and not read more than half the field.

Last year and in game one of this year, Baker has been asked to read post-snap coverages. I think his struggles w/this have led to some doubt and hesitation. Remember Darnold's infamous quote last year during the New England game where he uttered something like I'm seeing ghosts? I think Baker's confusion is leading to some doubt and those things are adversely affecting his accuracy.

I think it makes sense. I never played football, but have played/coached basketball all my life. I Was a very good shooting guard and can teach that position very well. I know if a team changes defenses it can throw you off. If your rhythm is off, your percentage will decrease, etc.

I’d imagine that if I was used to more open shots ... or catch/shoot against a 2-3 zone ... and suddenly our offense changes and teams play me a triangle and 2 and I’m shooting more off the dribble and reading/reacting ... my percentage would decrease ... and my confidence/comfort would too

That's when you need to be able to create your own shot and do other things without the ball. The counter punch.

Baker has yet to fix the areas the punch in the mouth exposed. He hasn't been able to provide a counter punch.

I'll say that is pretty clear to even the untrained eye that Baker has no idea what is going on once the snap has been made. I'm starting to think he has no idea what is going on presnap as well. I think he just calls the plays given to him and tries to execute those to the best of his ability, including trying to hit his first read. He's not recognizing anything at all presnap. He's lost.

When you are that lost presnap, now your height becomes an issue. You have to have some idea of where you are going with the ball presnap, even if it is different than the play call by what the defense is showing you. Once that breaks down, slow eyes and lack of height really hurt him.

I've said much the same thing myself. You can get away with what Freddie did by making Baker that one read QB for a while. But it simply won't last in the NFL. Once your opponents get film on you and figure it out, you will have to expand that offense. At that point he will have to begin reading D's post snap and go through his progressions quickly. The speed of the game simply will not allow for anything less.

This is the point where many QB's who were highly successful in college struggle. It's where Baker has struggled. IMO this is an area where he will improve over the season or we'll be headed in another direction. Not because I say so or that it's my desire. But because the ability to do those things is dependent on Baker and not everyone around him.

Every NFL HC tries to teach their QB's to do this. So it's not about the coaching when it comes to post snap reads and progression. It's exactly as you have been describing it for quite some time. It's about the ability to mentally process it.

Until fans can get a grip on how that works, we will continue to see fans create scapegoats out of every HC and WR in sight rather than recognize the actual issue.

Stefanski and company didn't draft Baker. He isn't married to Baker in that way. So people may wish to consider the fact that Stefanski may not go down with the Baker ship. He may make a change at QB before he feels all is lost for this season.

We all hope Baker progresses and becomes the answer. But people may wish to prepare themselves in the event that doesn't happen.

When watching the training camp videos you could see the stark contrast on how baker and keenum process. Keenum would be scanning and starting his progressions while dropping back and Baker would wait until finishing his drop. So he would be late or wouldn't go past first read.. You see that alot in games. Vince Young was exactly like that...tons of talent but mentally couldn't see more than one side of the field

Case Keenum may look like he knows what he’s doing but he doesn’t. He’s bad and he’s limited physically.

This season needs to be used to have Baker figure it out (or not).

And that's the saddest part. If we could put Keenan's ability to process into Baker's brain, we would probably have a damned good QB right now.

If Keenum is bad, what does that make Baker, when Keenum has better career numbers in every single category and actually led his team to an NFC championship game.. Not saying Keenum is the end all but come on now, he's not a worse option than baker, far from it.. Baker should be hearing footsteps because there is no allegiance with this staff and I really don't think they care where he was drafted. If we are losing games because the QB position is holding the offense back, just like any position I'm sure they will make a change. I think everyone's hope is the light comes on for Baker and we go on our merry way and start playing to the potential this offense should have. I just don't think his leash is as long as it was in years past. I think keenum could run this offense well with the weapons we have

Might be more of the same. Riddle me this: Later in the game, and we have seen it with some regularity, why the hitch during the wait? It looks like he is going to deliver on time off his drop, then freezes, often while continuing to stare down the receiver. The ball is up in his hands, but then he pulls it down and then backup, still staring down one receiver. These often end up in him taking a sack. Or overthrowing. As a sidecar to this, he seems to pre-select his receiver, often on the shortest route. An additional downside is he misses or ignores more open receiver, usually outside who seems to be ,at least, as open as say OBJ to whom we kept forcing the ball for a stirring pile of drops.

Baker was drafted not because of his superior QB talent or arm, but because he was a winner, mental fortitude and chip on his shoulder.

I am now sure we drafted the wrong QB, because the worst part of Baker game its his lack of preparation, mental fortitude and winning mentality.

What's the point on waiting for Baker, he is not going to grow 10 inches, develop a better arm or suddenly develop the work ethic and mental attributes to make him Brees 2.0

Baker is a slight better QB than Colt McCoy with much worst mental and work ethic, if he was the QB he was supposed to be he wouldn't be struggling in this areas.

You don't draft a winner and then wait for him to develop the traits. After 3 pre-seasons and Baker still does not know where is offense is supposed to line. He does not know how to read a D pre-snap, he does not have command of the Huddle. When he is called to step up to the plate he always messes up.

Baker is a bust, the sooner we realize it the sooner we can move on.

We know what Keenum is, there is hope Baker can be something positive. That’s the difference. If Baker doesn’t improve he is a career backup just like Keenum is.

Baker has played two years and one game in the NFL. His first year he broke the rookie TD record. His second year, his 3rd head coach got fired.

This is Keenum's 9th year in the league.

How are Darnold & Rosen fairing on their clusterteams?

You know why he was drafted based on what?

He's a bust? After 4 HC's and 2 seasons? You're talent evaluation is needed in the NFL. You can see things others can't.

j/c...

I agree with this. Baker was good in the pocket on Sunday. Didn't really panic or scramble unless needed.

The issue continues to be his slow recognition and when the ball leaves his hand. It makes the whole offense out of rhythm and leads to inaccuracy.

I think it has more to do with trust (or lack thereof) in his receivers than it does with how open they are. His rookie year he was just letting it fly, and Jarvis was making him right. Last year the guys were frequently making him "wrong": drops, deflected INTs (i.e, the Calloway TD turned pick), miscommunications/bad adjustments. He started pretty accurate this season. Then Calais made a play, which he's been known to do. Then OBJ had his drops and ran out of bounds on his own. Then we were playing from behind and never able to get back in a rhythm.

Hopefully, they can figure it out. They're Browns. They're not immune to feeling like anything that can go wrong will anymore than fans are. It's hard to stay confident when things go wrong with this team's recent history.

A little success could go a long way with this team. Here's hoping for a fast start Thursday.