DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Blake Shooting

Sort of like when you say that everyone is against criminal activities at protests.

Can't make any sense out of that one bro. I can't even figure out what you're saying I said.

I wasn't actually trying to attribute you of saying anything about this particular topic. Just agreeing that having a lucid conversation about any topic has the waters muddied and having a conversation with a dog would probably be more productive.

Ahh, gotcha.

And my statement had nothing to do with systemic racism either. Nor Trump.

There are always a set of specific circumstances behind whenever a person dies is police custody. The question that is often over looked is Was their a legitimate basis?... Stated more simply, Does being a police officer give you the right to kill another person just because you are an authority figure. To my mind, authority comes with responsibility and the officer should be able to apply a blanket "I was in fear" as a defense. You have authority, but are unable to take responsibility for your actions.

There are any number of examples where this has been the defacto defense, and has led to inexplicable or lame justifications for not guilty verdicts.

The reason why the police are there to begin with is there is a circumstance that requires them. A person high on PCP and naked is exactly the type a circumstance. But it does not justify death.

Your second point and something that cannot agree upon is why does this appear or happen to black people more than others. There is a lot of evidence that this is not just a perception but fact. Using the ostrich defense by denying that it exists has led to the demonstrations. And turning into the political football is counterproductive to ending the problem.

An idea for things that could or should be done...

Police departments should not be allowed to investigate themselves.

j/c:

Seeing how strong the bias is by the national media, actors, and other fame seekers is against the police and how they deal w/black criminals such as Blake........I can't help but wonder if this will further embolden criminals to not listen to the police because the latter is worried about the repercussions. In fact, I wonder if Blake felt the same way while he fought off the police and attempted to escape from being arrested.

I really think that most people don't look into things deeply enough when they get on their political and social high-horses and what some of the consequences will turn out to be while we continually making it harder and harder to police our communities.

I've thought that for many years now, since the Michael Brown shooting, I feel the interactions between police and African Americans starts off with some tension due to the social climate.

In no way does that excuse any of the shootings, but I do believe it puts both the police and the detainee in an uneasy and stressful state right at the start, which does not help in the interaction, giving both sides doubt of the intentions and direction the interaction may take.

j/c

In the last decade, has there been ONE police shooting that was PROVEN to be racially motivated? One?

We question and accuse police officers for dealing with criminals who won't follow instructions/commands and NEVER mention that if the perpetrator had simply done what he was instructed to do, he'd still be alive today - unless the drugs HE put into his own system killed him. Let alone guys that take tasers, fight with police and approach police with a gun/knife/? in their hand.

Those two paragraphs will incite the lovers of over-the-top-rhetoric...so I'll lay out the POINT for all in print...constantly proclaiming RACISM at every turn - when there is NO PROOF of racism other than a person's skin color - is completely eliminating the chance for real acts of racism to be identified and corrected.

Do ANY of these criminals deserve to die for what they did? Of course not. But THEY put THEMSELVES at risk for harm. This constant drumbeat of blaming police for an escalation that is caused by the criminal is mind-numbing.

I wonder how many people with police records were in the world trade center on 9/11?

Which is why funds are needed to be directed from police and go to inner cites for schooling, mediators and civic leaders to be sent to these scenes of domestic unrest and free up the cops to fry the big fish.

Mixed in with all those losers and suckers.

Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-shoot-13-old-boy-142149519.html

A 13-year-old boy with autism is recovering after being shot by police in Glendale, Utah on Friday night, CBS affiliate KUTV reports. The boy, Linden Cameron, is still in the hospital after suffering injuries to his shoulder, both ankles, intestine, and bladder, his mother told KUTV in an interview Sunday.

Golda Barton said she called police and asked for a crisis intervention team because her son was having a mental breakdown.

The mother said she told officers that her son, who has Asperger's, needed to be transported to the hospital for treatment. "This is how to deal with people with mental health issues. So, you call them, and they're supposed to come out and be able to deescalate a situation using the most minimal force possible," Barton told KUTV.

"I said, 'He's unarmed, he doesn't have anything, he just gets mad and he starts yelling and screaming. He's a kid, he's trying to get attention, he doesn't know how to regulate,'" Barton said.

Less than five minutes after the officers arrived, Barton, who waited outside, heard "get down on the ground" and several gunshots were heard, she told KUTV. Barton said she thought her son was dead. The officers didn't immediately say if he was dead or not, she said.

Her son was then handcuffed, Barton told KUTV.

The Salt Lake City Police Department is investigating the shooting, according to Barton. She told KUTV the incident occurred on the first day she had returned to work in a year. She can't be away from her son because he has bad separation anxiety.

In a statement to KUTV, SLCPD Sgt. Keith Horrocks said police were called to the area for a report of a "violent psych issue" involving a juvenile "having a mental episode" and "making threats to some folks with a weapon." Horrocks said the shooting happened shortly after 10 p.m. and left the boy in serious condition.

Sgt. Horrocks said he knew of no indication that there was a weapon found but didn't know for sure.

In statement to KUTV, Salt Lake City Mayor Erin Mendenhall said: "While the full details of this incident are yet to be released as an investigation takes place, I will say that I am thankful this young boy is alive and no one else was injured. No matter the circumstances, what happened on Friday night is a tragedy and I expect this investigation to be handled swiftly and transparently for the sake of everyone involved."

In the KUTV interview, Barton said her son is "a small child."

"Why didn't you just tackle him? He's a baby. He has mental issues," she said.

CBS News has reached out to SLCPD and Mayor Mendenhall for more information and is awaiting response.

____________

this is the crap i'm talking about, and why everybody wants to reform law enforcement.

freaking boot lickers all around the country will defend these cops, but law enforcement don't even care about your lives either.

i mean seriously? 13 years old? and you had to shoot the kid? mom TOLD them this kid had a mental health issue, and they still went in there treating him like a criminal.

our law enforcement treats everybody like foreign terrorist. so sick of this crap. all these cops whining about how hard the job is and want to resign?

do the country a favor, and resign then. something tells me long term, we'd be better off. only the cops who actually respect civilians will be in, raise the standards, and hire more mental health professionals.

mental health is a big issue in this country that doesn't get talked about anywhere near enough. that being said, i HAVE tried to give the cops the benefit of the doubt with mental health issues, but i just can't anymore.

this is completely unacceptable and zero excuse for it. only the boot lickers will defend this.

Defund the police.

How about we go with a better idea. Start funding programs to deal with mental health issues. Why is it that you don't push that
instead of defunding police????

I think that is what "Defund the Police" people are actually calling for.

I agree that "Defund the Police" is a terrible slogan.



boookings institute: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/20...-it-have-merit/


wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police



Christian Science Monitor: https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/20...Three-questions



The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/defunding-the-police-us-what-does-it-mean


Fox Business: https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/what-does-defund-the-police-really-mean

Actually to a great degree that's what the defund the police motto means. In the county where Nashville is, the sheriff said that about 30% of his inmate population were the mentally ill. He also spoke about all of the resources he spent dealing with the homeless population and addiction. Things he freely stated the police are not equipped to deal with.

He said he would be glad to have the funds he spends dealing with those issues handed over to people more qualified to deal with those problems. That they are not equipped to do so. That his resources are being used to address mental health, addiction and the homeless when police could be using that time to deal with actual crime.

In Nashville itself over 2.9 million dollars was used from the police budget was to help fund the new mental health facility to help them have somewhere to take the mentally ill rather than jail.

Sure, you have those on the extreme that get all of the attention, but by far most are simply saying rather than give these funds to the police to deal with addiction, homelessness and mental health, give that money and responsibility to those who are better equipped to deal with it.

See, states and local government can't just print money to deal with issues like the federal government does.

GM

As I have mentioned before, this initiative is very poorly labeled.

What you are proposing is exactly what Rocket and others are advocating, as well. "Defund The Police" is a stupidly worded catchphrase for reapportionment.

It's pretty well-known that a disproportionate amount of civic funding goes to law enforcement at the expense of other city services. Mental health agencies have seen their share of the public coffers dwindle steadily since the 80's. Mental health facilities have been steadily closed since that time, as well, leaving those with mental illness needs out on the streets with no safety net whatsoever.

I almost can't drive anywhere without seeing two police officers tending to an obviously homeless person- possibly one with cognitive issues, as well.

The reapportionment approach gives some of that public money back to the agencies and services that are geared specifically for such things as mental heath emergencies, domestic quarrels (not abuse, just loud arguments that prompt 911 calls), homeless shelter placements, etc. That frees the police dept to focus on the non-civic, crime-related issues that was always their purview in the first place.

What the new initiative advocates are saying is simple: a good number of these daily issues can be solved/addressed with people who don't carry guns and body armor. Case in point: domestic disturbance call. Dad's drunk, he and Mom are screaming at each other, no weapons or threats of violence. Marriage crisis workers are dispatched to de-escalate the sitch, while cops lay back as back-up. The trained professionals do the hands-on crisis intervention, while the cops are strictly there in case things go sideways. It's a known fact that the mere presence of guns in such situations can actually escalate the tensions that already exist. On top of that, police aren't very well-trained for such encounters (nor should they be expected to be) so a good many times, these end in arrests because that's pretty much all the police are authorized to do.

With this approach, de-escalation takes place, arrests need not be made, and the correct services get used in the correct circumstances.


Personally, I think the phrase "De-fund the Police" is the single biggest impediment to this initiative we have. It's a stupid, misleading, and ultimately self-defeating term.

These activists may have a decent idea, but they really need to work on their branding.

Thanks.

Yep we can agree. I prefer to increase funding to the police, while also increasing funding for those with mental/physical problems.

While that does sound great on theory, as I mentioned earlier, cities do not have the power to print money like the federal government can. They have budget constraints they must consider.

I certainly agree with increasing funding for mental health initiatives.

Whether police funding needs to go up or down is probably more of a city-to-city thing. There are certainly some police departments that have built up an enormous supply of bloat over the years.

This fact (which I first learned from Marginal Revolution, was pretty eye-opening for me):

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/09/firefighter-hysteresis.html

From 1975 to 2013, the number of fires in Boston Went down by 90% (mostly due to better building codes), but the number of firefighters has stayed the same -- and the firefighting budget has actually gone up.

Why? Because the firefighters union fought to make a bunch of things "firefighting responsibilities" -- that didn't used to be firefighting responsibilities. A person needs CPR? Send a fire-truck! It's extremely inefficient, does a poorer job of protecting people, and costs way more money.

This is (to some extent - there are many factors at play), what has happened to police departments. They are traffic enforcement, and zoning law coordinators, and litigators for neighborhood disputes -- but now they are also terrorism first responders, drug enforcement agents, SWAT teams.

This generally leads to a lot of inefficiencies, when small departments all around the country need to suddenly do all these things.

And I want to add (it's important so I'm making a new post).

I think the broad range of police responsibilities is one of the reasons we have so many incidences of police brutality and overuse.

When there is an officer who spends 80% of his time writing tickets, 10% of his time stopping loitering teenagers, and 10% of his time storming into drug dealers' houses with an assault rifle -- it's only human that their switch is going to be set in the wrong mode sometimes.

Defunding the police -- and differentiating these job descriptions, would go a long way towards solving these problems.

LMAO OK screw making citizans behave. Lets just bitch about everything and ignore the solutions

I can agree with you on that bro. IMO It's the small town's that get screwed here. You know those same small towns that many of the left bash every chance they get.

Bro, there is only so much money to go around. Because of that, cities must prioritize where the cash goes. For the past 30 - 40 years, we have seen what America's priorities are. The cash flows to police departments in the same way cash has flowed to the military. Disproportionate amounts of the coffers going to one arm of services diminish the quality of life that could be impacted by the other services, had they the correct amount of funds.

.02

You see here is where we disagree bro. I grew up in small town america. We didn't have the racism problems that large cities had/have. Our small town Police departments were ALL underfunded. You have told me many times that I don't know what it is like to be a person of color Now it's my turn to tell you that you don't know how many small town police departments work. I grew up with them, and worked with them for most of my life.

I don't doubt the veracity of your claims.

Obviously, this is not a "one size fits all" situation. Can't remember who mentioned it, but he mentioned a 'case by case/town by town' approach. Seems like there might be some space for improvements under that scenario.

j/c:

I just love how everyone automatically blames the police w/out knowing all the facts of the case and take the word of a mother saying "he's a baby." I've dealt w/students w/similar issues. They are not just "babies" and are often very violent.

I'll wait until the facts come out before I start bad mouthing the cops.

What solutions did you offer that I ignored? Your solution was to "spend more money". I simply pointed out that cities can't spend money they don't have and that they can't print money. Those are facts and do not ignore anything. Jeesh man.

j/c:



** Warms up some popcorn **

Well, looks like my version of what happened was correct. Trying to kidnap the kids in an SUV that wasn't his. Had a knife in his hand. It was pretty easy to understand what happened by looking at all the facts.

You've got pretty much no case against the officer at that point.

Moral of the story: Don't try to drive off in a stolen car with 3 kids you don't have full custody of while holding a knife, especially after the cops have tried tasing you 3 times.

That's the way most custody suits are resolved between couples. It came to it's logical conclusion.

Can you explain this more?

Simply put things like this happen all the time in out of hand custody suits. It's just in most similar cases people don't get shot and killed by the cops. It's sort of like when two people buy a car together. Sure it may only be in one of their names, but it's their car. So when one gets mad at the other the one who has their name on the title accuses the other one of stealing it.

Point being there was no actual need for it to end this way. And I'm not actually trying to say there was anything nefarious involved. Just that it could have been easily avoided.

You have that part right.

In both directions.

Now that we have all the evidence, we can cross that bridge.

You guys still don't have an answer as to what the cops should have done differently in this situation.

I have MULTIPLE things that Jacib Blake should have done that would have prevented this from happening.

This is 100% a 1-sided situation.

.

.

I put this in the wrong thread. Its been changed.