As I have said before, there are pills, condoms, iuds, hormone therapies, insertables, methods, creams, gels, sponges, surgeries, and many more methods to prevent a pregnancy, and a few to prevent implantation. I can even understand the use of abortion in the event of rape, incest, and severe medical defects. Why is this last option to be kept for those that want to be lazy and unprepared.
Changing a condom is far easier than changing a diaper.
"Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare" - Bill Clinton
The late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg argued in 2016 that the United States Senate should respect that a president’s constitutional power is for “four years, not three years,” when considering Supreme Court appointments.
Ginsburg, whose passing last week has created a standoff between Republicans and Democrats over who should fill her vacant Supreme Court post, was asked while giving an address to the Georgetown University Law Center if there were any “constitutional arguments that would prevent” a president from a filling a seat on the nation’s highest court during an election year. The question, in particular, was posed in the context of then-President Barack Obama nominating Circuit Court Judge Merrick Garland to replace Anton Scalia, a long-serving conservative jurist.
“As you know, the president has the authority to name appointees to the Supreme Court, but he has to do so with the advice and consent of the Senate,” Ginsburg responded. And if the Senate doesn’t act, as this current Senate is not acting, what can be done about it?”
The justice proceeded to argue that although there was likely no legal remedy to force the Senate Republicans to act on Garland’s nomination, she hoped “cooler heads will prevail” given the constitutional powers granted to the executive branch.
“The president is elected for four years, not three years,” she added. “So the power that he has in year three continues into year four, and maybe some members of the Senate will wake up and appreciate that that’s how it should be.”
BS Abortion is first, then they will go after all forms of birth control... what's next? Death panels? It's her body.
Who has ever made an argument to get rid of birth control? Maybe some religions, but only the strictest, and those are very much a minority. Death panels? You are losing it.
The majority would rather people use birth control instead of using abortion as birth control, which the majority of dems seem to want. Ounce of prevention.
As I have said before, there are pills, condoms, iuds, hormone therapies, insertables, methods, creams, gels, sponges, surgeries, and many more methods to prevent a pregnancy, and a few to prevent implantation. I can even understand the use of abortion in the event of rape, incest, and severe medical defects. Why is this last option to be kept for those that want to be lazy and unprepared.
Changing a condom is far easier than changing a diaper.
"Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare" - Bill Clinton
I did not have sexual relations with that woman. Also bill clinton. So? He didn't use a condom and left evidence behind.
Clearly this has morphed into an abortion thread. So be it.
1st, let's all agree that abortion for rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother is a separate discussion altogether. For the most part we are really talking about purely elective abortions.
My 1st issue with these arguments from both sides is that people look at things too simplistically in what is really a very complex issue.
The pro life argument is that you are killing babies. The problem with this is that while you may believe that life begins at conception, the fact is that we do not know when life begins. A large number of eggs get fertilized but fail to become successfully implanted into a woman's uterus. At less than 20 weeks, if a woman goes into labor, the fetus will not survive. Is that life? Some will argue yes others will argue no. Fact is, we do not know. After 32 weeks the infant will most likely survive. I have no problem with definitively calling that life.
The pro choice argument is that it is a woman's body, it's her choice. Well that choice occurs when you decide to have unprotected sex. But a woman does not become pregnant by herself. Why does the guy not get a say in whether she has an abortion? If I were to get a GF pregnant and she didn't want the baby, I think I would. Where are the father's rights in all this? People forget this because most guys traditionally are not interested in being a single father. Logistically there is no way to guarantee the father's say. is, if the woman doesn't want you to know who the father is, she can always just say it was a 1 night stand with a stranger and that she doesn't know his name.
Then, at what point does the fetus become baby and deserve rights? Again, as stated above, we just don't have a definitive answer.
My 2nd issue in all this is that many who claim to be pro life are actually anti abortion. They are fanatic about stopping abortion but don't care if the resultant baby has a family, a home or an education. They don't want a gay couple to be able to adopt the baby. They don't care if hungry people get fed. They don't care if the sick get healthcare. They don't care if coronavirus kill hundreds of thousands of people because the majority who die are old or have pre-existing conditions. This is not pro life, it is just anti abortion. Pro life is just a catch phrase to tug at the heart strings.
My 3rd issue is that far too many women use abortion as their preferred means of birth control. I find that offensive.
At this point in time, my feelings are that abortion should be okay for rape, incest, or to prevent the mother from dying. In additions I would allow abortion up to 22/23 weeks because at 22 weeks, there’s a 0-10% chance of survival; at 24 weeks the survival rate is 40-70%. And I would place a limit on the number of abortions a woman can have. You can make a mistake. But you should learn from it. So you are allowed one.
I also feel that any new legislation should include adoption reform to make it easier for a baby to be adopted.
Now, if medical science makes advancement that moves viability to an earlier gestation then I would be in favor of adjusting the cutoff down. Additionally, if we ever prove when life begins then I would use that as a cutoff.
Just my 2 cents. Feel free to have me for these thoughts and opinions, but be forewarned that I probably won't reply. These are my feelings and the point of this post is not to convince anybody of anything. These are my personal thoughts on the issue and all I hope for is that they are food for thought. That both sides will read this and it will inspire retrospection into your beliefs and provoke a deeper look at the issue that is more complicated than just killing babies vs a woman's body a woman's choice.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Blah blah blah. Take it out of the womb and start it in kindergarten then.
You never addressed the rest of my post. You care not about women that’ll be turned to back alley abortions. You care nothing about the children born into horrible situations where they are unwanted. You adopt none of these unwanted. You just want them born.
Blah blah blah Just let women murder their kids up to five years of age then
I didn't answer because an answer wasn't warranted for those lies. Everybody knows I care about women, and children, I care about all people. While you support killing off human life.
Lip service.
OK but just so you know that's how abortion starts
How does giving people the choice to make their own decision, "promote" anything?
There's a difference between not dictating your own beliefs on someone else and supporting their actions.
In my family we have been faced with making this choice. In every situation we chose not to use abortion as an option. So that is what we believe and what we support. The actions taken prove this.
Yet everyone involved in making the decision of birth in those situations believe that is our choice and not what we feel we must inflict on everyone else.
Oh really how about the rapist who thinks he should have a choice on raping a woman or not? Maybe the Pedo who thinks he/she should have the right to have sex with children? Maybe those who don't believe in speed limits? Maybe they should have the choice to ignore them and drive 80 MPH in a school zone? Maybe we should have the right to smoke any place we want to (includng hospitals, churches, bars, and anywhere we damn well please.)
I am not a fan of getting into discussions about abortion and I won't do so, now.
However, I do want to get back to the Supreme Court Vacancy. As a resident of SC, I can tell you that Lindsay Graham has lost a lot of respect across the state in recent years. He's almost the definition of the corrupt politician.
I also want to ask why some people think it's wrong for the president to name a replacement for the Supreme Court when he is still in power? I get that either side will not like it, whether it be 2016, 2020, or any other election year, but it seems to me that the president should have that ability to govern for the full four years he/she is in office.
I also want to ask why some people think it's wrong for the president to name a replacement for the Supreme Court when he is still in power? I get that either side will not like it, whether it be 2016, 2020, or any other election year, but it seems to me that the president should have that ability to govern for the full four years he/she is in office.
I agree - that is why Merrick Garland is on the SC.
I guess the situation we are in now - is that SC justices are only appointed when one party controls both the WH and the Senate. Any vacancy that results at any other time needs to wait until one party controls both.
Just a few things to think about. The 20 week survival idea is a huge falacy. A fetus' brain begins development around the 16th day after conception, and the face starts to develop. Heartbeats have been detected as early as the 5th week of pregnancy. By the 7th week, a fetus has arms, legs, face, heartbeat, and movement. Doctors are still trying to figure out when it feels pain, but it's far earlier than that 20 weeks.
The question has been, when does life begin, and does that life have rights? Plants, fungus, bacteria, and viruses grow and are considered life. On another planet, it would be a great discovery. Parasites are considered life, even if they can't survive without the host. Why not the human fetus? Is a human just too inconvenient?
I am not a fan of getting into discussions about abortion and I won't do so, now.
However, I do want to get back to the Supreme Court Vacancy. As a resident of SC, I can tell you that Lindsay Graham has lost a lot of respect across the state in recent years. He's almost the definition of the corrupt politician.
I also want to ask why some people think it's wrong for the president to name a replacement for the Supreme Court when he is still in power? I get that either side will not like it, whether it be 2016, 2020, or any other election year, but it seems to me that the president should have that ability to govern for the full four years he/she is in office.
As rgb said herself, a president serves for 4 years, not 3. He has a constitutional power and right to appoint a justice, just as the Senate has a right to confirm that appointment. There will not always be agreement, as was the case in 2016. If the Democrats had won the Senate in the past 4 years, I'm sure they'd pull the same stunt, and only moderate justices would have been appointed.
Just a few things to think about. The 20 week survival idea is a huge falacy. A fetus' brain begins development around the 16th day after conception, and the face starts to develop. Heartbeats have been detected as early as the 5th week of pregnancy. By the 7th week, a fetus has arms, legs, face, heartbeat, and movement. Doctors are still trying to figure out when it feels pain, but it's far earlier than that 20 weeks.
The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists says that fetuses definitely do not feel pain until at least the third trimester (week 27)
Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks.
As I have said before, there are pills, condoms, iuds, hormone therapies, insertables, methods, creams, gels, sponges, surgeries, and many more methods to prevent a pregnancy, and a few to prevent implantation. I can even understand the use of abortion in the event of rape, incest, and severe medical defects. Why is this last option to be kept for those that want to be lazy and unprepared.
Changing a condom is far easier than changing a diaper.
Do you happen to know - statistically - the effectiveness of all the different contraceptives? I've seen the Pill touted as anywhere from 99% to 91% effective. . . . Condoms - 85-90%.
What do you want to do with all the unwanted pregnancies that arise through people who were taking precautions.
I mean it's great to focus your argument on one small slice of the pie that is the irresponsible people or just plain dumb people who get pregnant .... but it doesn't actually work across the board.
Maybe those that are so anti abortion need to be eligible to foster care for these infants that they are so adamant need to come into our world when the real parents may not want them?
Last edited by mgh888; 09/23/2009:14 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Unborn babies can feel pain by 20 weeks gestation or earlier
The old, uninformed notions that unborn and newborn babies cannot feel pain are refuted by a growing body of scientific evidence. The published scientific literature shows that unborn babies can experience pain at 20 weeks gestational age (20 weeks LMP, since Last Menstrual Period, the fetal age estimate used by most obstetricians) or earlier. Two common methods are used to measure the age of an unborn baby: Probable post-fertilization age (PPF, used by embryologists) measures the age of the unborn baby from the actual date of conception, while gestational age measures from the first day of the mother’s last menstrual period (LMP, approx. two weeks before conception). Medical practitioners have been using the latter method as standard medical practice for decades, and for the purpose of this paper ages refer to gestational age unless otherwise indicated. A comprehensive review of the scientific literature[1] including neural development, psychology of pain sensation, and moral implications of fetal pain, concludes that unborn babies may experience pain as early as 12 weeks. The review notes that neural connections from periphery to brain are functionally complete after 18 weeks. “Nevertheless, we no longer view fetal pain (as a core, immediate, sensation) in a gestational window of 12–24 weeks as impossible based on the neuroscience.” The review points out that a fetus may not experience pain in the same way as an adult, but does indeed experience pain as a real sensation, and that this pain experience has moral implications. Significant because this unbiased review of the scientific evidence and agreement on existence of fetal pain, as early as 12 weeks and certainly after 18 weeks, comes from two highly credentialed medical professionals, one pro-choice. “The two authors came together to write this paper through a shared sense that the neuroscientific data, especially more recent data, could not support a categorical rejection of fetal pain.” Embryological development shows presence of pain sensory mechanisms and neurophysiology. The basic anatomical organization of the human nervous system is established by 6 weeks.[2] The earliest neurons in the cortical brain (the part responsible for thinking, memory, and other higher functions) are established starting at 6 weeks.[3] Nerve synapses for spinal reflex are in place by 10 weeks.[4] Sensory receptors for pain (nociception) develop first around the mouth at 7 weeks , and are present throughout the skin and mucosal surfaces by 20 weeks.[5] Connections between the spinal cord and the thalamus (which functions in pain perception in fetuses as well as in adults[6]) are relatively complete by 20 weeks.[7] Contradicting the claim that the brain cortex is necessary to experience pain and suffering, decordate individuals as well as animals lacking higher cortical structures obviously do feel pain. In fact, the human brain cortex does not fully mature until approximately 25 years of age, yet infants, children, and teenagers obviously can experience pain.[8] Fetal reactions provide evidence of pain response. The unborn baby reacts to noxious stimuli with avoidance reactions and stress responses. As early as 8 weeks the baby exhibits reflex movement during invasive procedures.[9] There is extensive evidence of a hormonal stress response by unborn babies as early as 18 weeks [10] including “increases in cortisol, beta-endorphin, and decreases in the pulsatility index of the fetal middle cerebral artery.”[11] Two independent studies in 2006 used brain scans of the sensory part of unborn babies’ brains, showing response to pain.[12] They found a “clear cortical response” and concluded there was “the potential for both higher-level pain processing and pain-induced plasticity in the human brain from a very early age.” Ruth Grunau, a pediatric psychologist at the University of British Columbia, said, “We would seem to be holding an extraordinary standard if we didn’t infer pain from all those measures.”[13] Brain responses & connections. In 2013 a study used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to study the brains of healthy human babies still within the womb, from 24-39 weeks . They found that functional neuronal connections sufficient to experience pain already exist by 24 weeks .[14] Increased sensitivity to pain. In 2010 one group noted that “the earlier infants are delivered, the stronger their response to pain.”[15] This increased sensitivity is due to the fact that the neural mechanisms that inhibit pain sensations do not begin to develop until 34-36 weeks , and are not complete until a significant time after birth.[16] This means that unborn, as well as newborn and preterm, infants show “hyperresponsiveness” to pain.[17] Authors of a 2015 study used the fMRI technique to measure pain response in newborns (1-6 days old) vs. adults (23-36 years old), and found that “the infant pain experience closely resembles that seen in adults.” [18] Babies had 18 out of 20 brain regions respond like adults, yet they showed much greater sensitivity to pain, responding at a level four times as sensitive as adults.
As I have said before, there are pills, condoms, iuds, hormone therapies, insertables, methods, creams, gels, sponges, surgeries, and many more methods to prevent a pregnancy, and a few to prevent implantation. I can even understand the use of abortion in the event of rape, incest, and severe medical defects. Why is this last option to be kept for those that want to be lazy and unprepared.
Changing a condom is far easier than changing a diaper.
Do you happen to know - statistically - the effectiveness of all the different contraceptives? I've seen the Pill touted as anywhere from 99% to 91% effective. . . . Condoms - 85-90%.
What do you want to do with all the unwanted pregnancies that arise through people who were taking precautions.
I mean it's great to focus your argument on one small slice of the pie that is the irresponsible people or just plain dumb people who get pregnant .... but it doesn't actually work across the board.
Maybe those that are so anti abortion need to be eligible to foster care for these infants that they are so adamant need to come into our world when the real parents may not want them?
Got those stats from the pp site?
Why is it that condoms are always considered effective at preventing sti's but not pregnancy? Could it possibly be some morons don't know how to properly use a condom? Most stats I've seen shows that improperly using a condom is the main cause of failure. Let's face it, not even abortion has been proven 100% effective.
Also, to push back at a point you made, maybe pro-abortion folks ought to be responsible for the clean up and disposal of discarded babies, not to mention the care of those women that suffer psychological or medical issues after an abortion.
As I have said before, there are pills, condoms, iuds, hormone therapies, insertables, methods, creams, gels, sponges, surgeries, and many more methods to prevent a pregnancy, and a few to prevent implantation. I can even understand the use of abortion in the event of rape, incest, and severe medical defects. Why is this last option to be kept for those that want to be lazy and unprepared.
Changing a condom is far easier than changing a diaper.
Do you happen to know - statistically - the effectiveness of all the different contraceptives? I've seen the Pill touted as anywhere from 99% to 91% effective. . . . Condoms - 85-90%.
What do you want to do with all the unwanted pregnancies that arise through people who were taking precautions.
I mean it's great to focus your argument on one small slice of the pie that is the irresponsible people or just plain dumb people who get pregnant .... but it doesn't actually work across the board.
Maybe those that are so anti abortion need to be eligible to foster care for these infants that they are so adamant need to come into our world when the real parents may not want them?
Got those stats from the pp site?
Why is it that condoms are always considered effective at preventing sti's but not pregnancy? Could it possibly be some morons don't know how to properly use a condom? Most stats I've seen shows that improperly using a condom is the main cause of failure. Let's face it, not even abortion has been proven 100% effective.
Also, to push back at a point you made, maybe pro-abortion folks ought to be responsible for the clean up and disposal of discarded babies, not to mention the care of those women that suffer psychological or medical issues after an abortion.
Not pro abortion. Pro choice. How many times do we need to go over that? I’ll ‘clean up and discard medical waste. I do it regularly for my job. As to post abortion care for women. I’m all for it. Heck of a lot cheaper than having a kid in the foster care system for 18 years then the legal system for the rest of their adult lives.
As I have said before, there are pills, condoms, iuds, hormone therapies, insertables, methods, creams, gels, sponges, surgeries, and many more methods to prevent a pregnancy, and a few to prevent implantation. I can even understand the use of abortion in the event of rape, incest, and severe medical defects. Why is this last option to be kept for those that want to be lazy and unprepared.
Changing a condom is far easier than changing a diaper.
Do you happen to know - statistically - the effectiveness of all the different contraceptives? I've seen the Pill touted as anywhere from 99% to 91% effective. . . . Condoms - 85-90%.
What do you want to do with all the unwanted pregnancies that arise through people who were taking precautions.
I mean it's great to focus your argument on one small slice of the pie that is the irresponsible people or just plain dumb people who get pregnant .... but it doesn't actually work across the board.
Maybe those that are so anti abortion need to be eligible to foster care for these infants that they are so adamant need to come into our world when the real parents may not want them?
Got those stats from the pp site?
Why is it that condoms are always considered effective at preventing sti's but not pregnancy? Could it possibly be some morons don't know how to properly use a condom? Most stats I've seen shows that improperly using a condom is the main cause of failure. Let's face it, not even abortion has been proven 100% effective.
Also, to push back at a point you made, maybe pro-abortion folks ought to be responsible for the clean up and disposal of discarded babies, not to mention the care of those women that suffer psychological or medical issues after an abortion.
Not pro abortion. Pro choice. How many times do we need to go over that? I’ll ‘clean up and discard medical waste. I do it regularly for my job. As to post abortion care for women. I’m all for it. Heck of a lot cheaper than having a kid in the foster care system for 18 years then the legal system for the rest of their adult lives.
Pro abortion. That choice to most of them means killing an unborn child. So, when you're cleaning up that "medical waste", will you actually look in the bags? At 7 weeks, there are arms, fingers, toes, legs, a face. Most of then are ripped apart by the vacuum they use. I've worked in a slaughterhouse and seen where meat comes from. It's rather gruesome for some people.
Republicans have to decide which SCOTUS appointee they stole.
In 2016 with eight months to go before the election, they said they should not hold hearing on a SCOTUS nominee because it was an election year and the voters of that presidential election should have a voice.
This time around they are saying with 40 days left they have time and will hold hearings in an election year. So they have changed their mind according to who is president.
In one of these two cases they lied about their beliefs in order to control the SCOTUS. In one of these cases they are using leverage to steal a SCOTUS seat. All you need to do is be honest enough to let us know which SCTUS seat they are stealing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
don't hide on nov 3rd. i'll be here regardless. will you?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
What do you know about honesty? RGB's final wishes? What you and the Democrats desire?
Those are emotional responses to the Presidents Constitutional Duty to nominate a Supreme Court Justice and fill a vacancy.
Remember the Constitution???
They blocked Garland during an election year because they said the voters should have a say in the 2016 elections. Now that Trump is president they say it doesn't matter that it's an election year. Maybe try that.
So you're saying that in 2016 the Republican led senate ignored the constitution?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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