DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus President Trump calls for Neo-nazi White Supremacist Proud Boys to stand by.

...but I never heard anyone call them white supremecists.

You don’t have to be a white supremacist to support white supremacy.

You’re starting to really reach here, J.

Lol. Reaching for what? Just pointing out the irony.

The proud boys. Founded by a black man, now chaired by a cuban. Their membership consists of blacks, whites, Asians and Latinos. They have stated their goal is to teach men to be masculine, because they see the left wanting men to become pajama boy beta males. They are conservatives. Because they are conservative and masculine, actual hate groups like the splc have deemed them "white supremacists", because liberals think that is the worst designation they can give. Odd how a multiracial group can be deemed "white supremacist". Liberals don't even know what those are nowadays.

How their leader says Proud Boys members earn their stripes...



We don't encourage it but if you want to earn your fourth step in the Proud Boys you have to do it. lmao

"I attacked a couple of guys."

Not for nothing. But how they gonna know a member doesn't masturbate?

lol my goodness idiocy know no bounds..... don't whack yourself, just others . . . whack others. . . for the cause

Or am I reaching here?????

a bunch of losers who took "peaky Blinders" way too freaking seriously.

Just showing people the truth out of his own mouth. The deception being perpetrated by others is quite disturbing.

This:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys

Then this:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/groups

for a more complete list of Trump's base.

I don't think Gavin McInnes could even take corn pop.

Pokapornstar can't even take corn pop.

Maybe Corn Pop should be President.

It would be a wasted vote.

So will 45 to 50 percent of people's votes 😉

Gay men have taken over the Proud Boys Twitter hashtag

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/04/us/proud-boys-twitter-hashtag-gay-men-trnd/index.html

oh, the times we live in-

So this got me thinking for a minute because I was wondering what you meant exactly you meant by this.

So just to be on the same page, the Oxford dictionary defines white supremacy as: "the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races, especially the black race, and should therefore dominate society." This seems like a pretty good definition to me which I think most people could agree upon.

Did you mean that you can be a person of color and still believe that whites are racially superior and should dominate society?
or
Did you mean that you can be any average person, but could still support white-supremacy by, for example, turning a blind eye to the actions of white supremacists?


I am also struggling to determine if the Proud Boys are white supremacists. The articles that I have seen all seem to suggest that they are, but the evidence doesn't show the usual indicators of a white supremacist organization. For example, their ranks consists of mostly white, but still many minorities and their website has a "tenets" section where they lay out their core values and explicitly state that they are Anti-Racism. That's a strange core value to advertise if you are trying to attract white supremacists to your organization. Following their tenets, they have this statement:

From https://proudboysusa.com/tenets/


So maybe this "Western Chauvanist" concept is where the accusation of White Supremacy comes from, because Western culture is definitely interlinked with people of white skin color. So to better understand this, I had to look up what they meant by Western Chauvanist.
From https://officialproudboys.com/proud-boys/whoaretheproudboys/


So they are clearly communicating that some Western ideas are better and should dominate society. In my opinion, the question that remains is if western is synonymous with whiteness. What do you think? are they one in the same?

yes, and:



yes, but this one is obviously more nuanced, as the other is much more linear in its definition.

you'll have white guys who easily dismiss white supremacy simply because its not targeted at them. a blind eye to white supremacy is an endorsement of it. because that means they KNOW it exist, they just simply don't care.

also, you'll easily find minorities who think whites are superior, and we can easily see that direct link to colonialism. hell, there's examples all over the world.

for example, Vice did a dope video on how in China, they will literally hire white actors with no medical professional experience, throw a lab coat on them, and whatever product they endorse is now credible simply because a white guy marketed it.

or how skin lightening cream is a big deal in india and southeast asia, based on the idea that lighter skin is more desirable than their natural skin tone. again, directly linked to colonialism. we can go down a deep deep rabbit hole on that.

so, the issues becomes the term "whiteness" in how its used, because now we're definitely getting into a lot of complexities.

I think most people around the world would associate "Western democracy" with whiteness. the problem is that the countries spreading "democracy" around the world through colonialism hardly referred to themselves as white.

i doubt the portuguese and spanish considered themselves white while they were colonizing different parts of the world, and i doubt most of europe considered themselves "white" when they've been at war with each other their entire existence up until the end of WW2.

the issue is that America doesn't like to own up to the fact that the color coding really was created and amped up because of slavery. its why irish and italians would come to this country and be considered white, despite the fact that their "Whiteness" in europe meant absolutely nothing over there. go asked the irish how much their whiteness mattered to the british back in the day.

hell, go ask the polish NOW how much their whiteness matters to the british.

so unfortunately, the best answer i have is that it depends on who's doing the talking. people forget that Russia is NOT the west. they despise western democracy. Russia is full of white people so....im not sure they consider whiteness in their assessment of the west.

however, southeast asia? Africa? Central/south america?

Here? thats a different dynamic.

Gotta admit, I kinda got a chuckle out of that

s003per and swish,

Thanks for those 2 long posts. Obviously, a lot of effort went into both, and I appreciated reading them.

Thanks.

well i wish more guys would chime in with their own views on what being "white" means to them.

im seriously interested in learning about it. people will comment on everything else but actual discussions like this.

i come from a demographic who didn't get to grow up hearing about how we're from this country in africa from <insert tribe>, while a ton of white people actually know their heritage.

and since we have a ton of white americans who love bringing up heritage, i would like to learn something. but if people keep letting a black/puerto rican/turkish/white dude talk about whiteness and colonialism with little to no counter perspectives, imma keep thinking my views are mostly accurate, even if it actually isn't.

I never realized that's what you were after. My bad I guess. Well, here goes.

I'm white. I say that only because nobody would look at me and think anything else. What white means to me? Honestly, I dunno.... when I refer to my 'whiteness' it's usually as a joke (I'm a hockey-playing engineer living in the 'burbs and grew up fairly privileged in the midwest... what is 'whiter' than all that?). I'm not exaggerating when I say I've never thought of my 'whiteness' in a serious way.

As for my heritage, both of my parents' families are from Hungary. My dad was born there, my mom was not. Both sets of families fled to the US as refugees right after WW2, when the Russians rolled into the country and took over. Both were set up very well in Hungary, but had to give it all up and start from nothing once in the states (they did have family and friends here to help get them on their feet, though).

Kind of along the lines of what you were saying about how 'identity' is viewed differently here vs in Europe.... I was always told that I was 'Hungarian', and since both of my parents are 'Hungarian' that I am also '100% Hungarian'. Well, my mom was curious and did one of those DNA heritage test thingies. Turns out, it's much more complicated than that. 'Hungarian' is really just a mix of German/Austrian and other lineages. It was just kind of interesting to hear that part of my identity, as it was told to me, isn't really a thing.

To me, 'white' is just another describer... no different than tall/short, thin/fat, etc. I know it has cultural connotations, but I choose to ignore that. I don't find it particularly useful.

Being white doesn't mean anything to me. There is some Cherokee blood in me as well. I would have to say that the Cherokee part is what I'm most proud of.

My family is from the Appalachian mountains. They grew up poor and were born during the depression era. My parents moved north for work to escape the abject poverty of where they grew up. I'm mostly Scotch Irish. They went to the mountains because they had been persecuted everywhere they went. They wanted to be left alone and free to be who they were without outside interference. But when looking at a full DNA composition, I'm a mutt. Most everyone is to some extent.

I was raised being taught that society, especially the wealthy worked very hard to keep the poor and working class divided. That if they could keep poor blacks and poor whites divided, we would never have any power. That by being poor, we had far more in common that most realized. That our plight was quite similar. That only if we united could we hold the leverage to change things and that we had the numbers to do so if only we could get past the message of division being sown by those who held the power. It's still true.

That's why they work so hard to label everything that helps the every day American as socialist or unAmerican. It's why they try so hard to keep us divided by messaging that is now far worse. That if you don't believe the way they do, you aren't patriotic. And those that fall for that BS are to blame.

Sadly, it works.

I'm not so blinded that I refuse to see the history of white America. The injustice of slavery. The genocide of Native Americans. It's not a pretty history. Now, the powers that be say teaching the truth about America's history is somehow not patriotic. That's the purest form of a dog whistle. What they're actually doing is trying to legislate that propaganda be the mandated curriculum. While they continue to teach children that only places like Russia and China use propaganda.

I'll take a stab at this.

Growing up, I knew I had Irish, German, and Polish ancestry. Outside of that I knew next to nothing.

My one aunt and uncle (well, great Aunt and Uncle...grandma's sister) remained very involved in the polish community where they lived and he even played accordion in an oompah band. My grandparents would occasioanally have polka music on in their house on the record player but that stopped as my grandfathers hearing got worse.

My aunt ended up doing some tracing from where my dad's side of the family originated from, and my ancestors come from the Black Forest region of Germany. It's down by the French and Switzerland border.

Never really knew much about my mom's side other than the Irish part. No effort was really ever made for us to acknowledge or celebrate our culture.

Race wasn't ever really talked about inside our house. My mom always taught us to treat everyone the same regardless of skin color. Never did she try to tell us that one race was superior to another.
--------------------------
My wife has German, Austrian, and Swedish heritage through her family.

Through her grandmother, she very much knew about her Austrian heritage. Her grandmother is a WWII bride. She met her husband as he was occupying their house during the end of WWII when the allies came through Austria. She moved over quite soon after WWII; she remembers traveling on a boat through Ellis Island. She made sure to learn English but kept her Austrian roots. My wife got to travel a few times as a child to meet her cousins in Austria. She's proud of her Austrian heritage and keeps an edelweiss flower from Austria encased in a necklace that she wears from time to time.

She never knew much more about her German or Swedish heritage.
---------------------------

I'd like to know more about my background. Teaching where I do I recognize my students know more about where they come from than I do myself. Be proud of who you are! Just don't use your background to claim superiority over someone else to judge and subjugate them.

Being white doesn't really mean anything to me. I roll my eyes so hard whenever the SJW blabber about white privilige. I've never felt privliged.
I have worked hard for what I have. And especially with an online job, race doesn't mean much because we are just words on a screen.

I feel that minorities are generally nicer than white people and are more fun to hang out with. My favorite bar is a black bar, and I've been told it's "ghetto". But I don't care, I hang out there anyway.

Interesting question. All my life it really occurred to me that I was white. I was aways just me. There were only a handful of black kids in my grade school and about 20- 30 in my high school of 1000 kids. I knew they were black and I was white but it didn't really mean anything to me. I never saw them as different than I was.

Over the years I learned that we are different. Not as people but in the way we experience life. Have I gotten benefits from being white? I don't particularly think so. Nobody says hey, you're white her's $10. What I realize that I get from being white is piece of mins that with whatever I do I get judged based on he merits of my performance.

Whether I get or not get a job, a loan, arrested ... it is because I earned it, qualified for it, deserved it. If I was black, I would always wonder if I got that job to meet a quota, got turned down for that loan because of the color of my skin, or got arrested because of the way I look.

As a white male, I have none of those concerns.


As an aside, I don't think white people get things because they are white. They just don't get held back because of the color of their skin. The people who get the most advantages given to them because of how they were born? Two categories. 1st being those born into rich families. They are afforded opportunities that most don't have access to. The 2nd is the good looking. If you are physically attractive you have a huge advantage over the non attractive individual.

When I hear white supremacy, I tend to think of people that think that white people are either genetically superior or created superior by a higher power, and from that point of view, they rationalize treating non-whites unfairly or cruelly. That was obviously the case in slavery in the U.S. and other countries and also in Nazi Germany where this type of thinking was used to rationalize exterminating Jewish people and other minorities. I also think that a tone of racial, ethnic, or religious superiority is almost always present in any genocide

The problem I see with classifying people who promote western values as white supremacists is that it makes the case that the preference for ideas or things that originate from western Europe are part of the same white supremacy spectrum and if you take that spectrum to its extreme, you can argue that thinking Italian food is the best in the world is a form of white supremacy.

I just don't think it benefits anyone to pay too much attention to these things if they happen to be relatively harmless ideas. It seems to me that the discussion of white supremacy or any for of racial, ethnic, or religious superiority should be focused around people advocating for the unequal treatment of those outside their group, because that is when the really horrible things tend to happen.

I think you hit on something that others have sort of touched on.

There really is no “white” race. We all come from a variety of cultures. Seems like sinister elements have taught us to forget where our ancestry came from to value ourselves more important as “white” or something akin to the aryan nonsense.

We should take pride in our background and not use it as a way to claim superiority.

Wrong. Natural redheads are the pure white race. Well, pasty white or chalk white anyway.

Here's a good question; spaniards are by language hispanic and even though they usually have at least a mild olive or light brown tone in their complexion, they are considered white. Why? Why not hispanic? or is spanish speaking not the qualifier for hispanic? or maybe hispanic is not a race at all and latino represents latin americans not europeans... You tell me.

Same for european italians.

My fellow is Chicano. His father was Mexican, his mother Spanish. He looks white. But he is hardcore into his roots. He considers himself Chicano.

And he is a hardcore conservative. Way more right than me.

White supremacy is a political ideology, not a scientific or genetic based classification.

So you don’t have to be of NW European origin to believe in it.

Game.
Set.
Match.

Until people realize that their is only one race, we will see racists idiots among ourselves. Long live the HUMAN RACE.

I had no idea people from Spain were considered white.

Funny but not funny true story:

So my wife's grandmother on her dad's side had the last name of 'Garcia' and lived her life in or around San Antonio, TX. Her entire family claimed that she was of Spanish descent. So about 5 years ago we were having breakfast discussing the new DNA testing that shows ancestry, and my wife mentions her Spanish descent. I thought about it for a minute and looked at her and said I bet she was Mexican, not Spanish. She grew up along the border in Texas. Her last name is also a popular Mexican last name. And yes there were Spanish people there too but at the time (early 1900s) it was predominately a Mexican-American area, as far I could was concerned it was obvious.

My wife and her family balked at the idea and it was a big deal to them for some reason (her family not her, mostly her very republican brother). And they all stood their ground about grandma Garcia being Spanish. Well, lo and behold, my niece (same brother-in-law's daughter) did a DNA test like '23 & me' and she was shocked to find out she was 1/8 Mexican. She made the results known with an announcement at a full get together family holiday meal. I was amazed by the total dismay on their faces as the conversation progressed.

The brownness of being Mexican instead of the whiteness of being Spanish was such a thing back then that this poor woman lived a lie that was passed on for generations in effort to hide her heritage, even from family. Sad, but true.

So my wife and niece now claim to be part Mexican while the rest still claim to be Spanish. The only reason I can see for this is the whiteness.

Again, I kinda question the whole Spanish = white thing. Maybe I'm off on my own here, I just never considered Spanish people as 'white'. Granted, I can't think of many people that I know that are from Spain.

I think the whole 'not wanting to be Mexican' thing you're talking about is the negative connotation that goes along with being Mexican (vs wanting to be Spanish). My experience in Mexico only takes me so far in understanding this (worked in Tijuana for almost 3 years while I was living in San Diego), but I do know that Mexicans do struggle with some of the same things we're talking about in here re: being white (command of the English language, how you dress/look, etc). I also know that this is more/less prevalent depending on where in Mexico you are (TJ is a pretty cosmopolitan city... you don't see this as much as you would further south or east).

I agree with you on the 'funny but not funny' part.

I'm of Mixed Race.. My father was white and my mom was Dark white

So in a chicken analogy your dad was the breast and your mom was the thigh?