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No I was talking about him being remotely consistantly accurate. If you can name me 2 games name them...............heck give me 2 games he didn't make 5 throws into triple coverage. Name me 2 games he didn't consistantly over throw/ under throw his WR/TEs by 3 feet.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Agian I am more into the QB leading us to wins, and I feel he is doing a good job at that. He throws too many INTS, the throws into coverage, he can't move.....But is he putting us in a position to win games or not? I've been watching this team not be in a position to win games for for too long.
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He does bring some positives to the game........big arm and quick release.....no doubt about it. However, when people start throwing out 1st round draft pick returns on this kid (which is what we were talking about his upside) then all those other things come into play in a GMs evaluation.
To end this I will say again, he's a servicable QB if you have the talent around him, but he isn't a QB who GMs are going to give a 1st round pick for, becuase of his ???s and LIMITED upside.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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.mainly becuase of his limited upside.
When you qb a NFL team and throw up 40+ points, I would say that demonstrates the upside.
His upside won't be the limiting factor...any downside will be the limiting factor.
Anderson has lot's of upside....the downside is the question that has to be answered.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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....the downside is the question that has to be answered.
And, in your opinion, his downside is what?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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....the downside is the question that has to be answered.
And, in your opinion, his downside is what?
In a nutshell.....touch passing and accuracy.
Probably the same as others.....
I don't mention consistency because consistency comes with experience..
And if it doesn't come at some point, it isn't a consistency problem, it is simply a problem.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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However, when people start throwing out 1st round draft pick returns on this kid (which is what we were talking about his upside) then all those other things come into play in a GMs evaluation.
Now wait a minute Big Willie,, who said we would get a 1st round pick for DA?
What I have seen written is that if we make him a high tender offer,,, then whoever wants him would have to offer up a a 1st round pick.. Those are the NFL Rules,, not conjecture.
Whether some team will do that is the question... Not sure any would.. But given the nature of the beast,, and knowing that some teams are in a world of hurt in the QB area, it's NOT impossible that some team might.
Do I personally believe a team will give up a #1 for him,, at this moment, NO!
But if the kid keeps playing as he has and continues to improve in the areas that need improvement, then sure. Why not.,. But then the question becomes, why would we give him up in preference to UNPROVEN ROOKIE (BQ) .
Which by the way is why I advocate giving BQ sometime under center in games that count!
PS: for the record, I'm pretty sure BQ will be just fine.. but I'd still like to see him in action.....
#GMSTRONG
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It's not Anderson's fault BQ isn't getting playing time. He's putting up enough points to be giving Quinn some mop up time in the 4th quarter if only the other side would quit scoring too. That's what we need to be doing with Quinn right now. We're not finishing teams off early enough to make that happen.
The team needs to be focused on winning... not trying to prep the "QB" to start for next season....
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IMO, we should put whatever tender we think we can actually get from another team, and let him walk, and get back a 3rd or 4th round pick.
Unless he wants to re-sign for a reasonable rate, as a backup, I don't see any other option.
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We will go the high tender...but...we don't have to take the 1st and 3rd rounder....we can let it be known we would take less.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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1st let me say this, if you have a QB that throws more TD's then int's you have a pretty good QB. That said I think people tend to make to much of the good DA, bad DA thing. Yes he has had his moments, but who as a QB doesn't ??
I was never a DA pimp, I thought and thinik strong armed QB's are over rated. If a strong arm win's games then I want a strong arm, and to that end DA has shown an ability to get it done with touch if need be. To his credit he has gottin better, and I believe he will continue to get better. It's hard to think of a guy who is for all intense and purposes a 1st year starter playing much better then DA has. Lets put it this way, if and when it becomes time for BQ to play I would be more then happy if he was able to even approach what DA has done as a 1st year starter. To think that the Browns are near the top of the league in total offense and points scored with a 1st year starter is a credit to DA's play. Yup, int's are always a concern, but if you can't see that the guy is getting better game to game then your not watching, or you just want BQ to play at all cost, and choose to ignore how great DA truly has played. To say that you see no upside to DA is just well foolish thinking.
How this all plays out is anybodies guess at this point but the Browns are in a great position to not only get back their 1st round pick but a bit more as well. As I look around the league I see quite a few teams that are likely to come knocking for DA's services should we decide to take that route, or we could even trade off BQ. Either player has a better value then anybody in the upcoming draft, DA becuase of his performance and BQ becuase he will likely have that 1 year watching and learning under his belt, something nobody in the draft can offer. It's a guess as to what will happen, and God I pray when the time comes that we do make a move it's the right call. Perhaps those that make these types of decisions will opt to stand pat, and keep them both, but I wouldn't automaticly assume that DA would be the guy pulling splinters from his ass, or that he would be the guy traded for that matter, anything is possible at this juncture.
Will get DA signed to a long term deal tho, there is just no questioning that. To me it is a no brainer that you get him signed, and go forward with whatever is the long term plan, trade, or play, or backup. But DA has to my satisfaction proven to be a very good starting QB, one that can and will lead the Browns to win's. The one and only question left in my mind at this juncture is can DA put the team on his back and lead them to a win at crunch time, if so he has got to be our man going forward, I would think!!!
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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We will go the high tender...but...we don't have to take the 1st and 3rd rounder....we can let it be known we would take less.
My understanding is that it's a rule,, but if you are right in that we can accept less, I have only one question,, WHY?
I actually love being in a situation where we have two QB's that can take over a game. (well, we have one that can and the other that we think can)
If it comes down to it, I wouldn't accept less... I'd rather have both guys on the roster. But that's just me!
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I know a team who puts a franchise tag on a player can take less if they choose. Seems someone just did it not too long ago.
Why would we take less??.....to get a deal that otherwise might not happen.
We are making a big assumption it even gets to that point, but a team may only want to give up a 1st....or only a 2nd rounder.
If our real desire is to trade the guy and turn it over to Quinn, and get something for Anderson before he really can walk, then we would take less if the tender offers aren't there.
If he leaves, we don't even get comp picks since we didn't draft him.
Understand??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We are making a big assumption it even gets to that point
True enough
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If our real desire is to trade the guy and turn it over to Quinn, and get something for Anderson before he really can walk, then we would take less if the tender offers aren't there.
If it is our real desire to dump Anderson,, they yeah, take what you can get. But at this point, do you think that's even remotely the case? I don't. May that change if DA goes down the crapper...You betcha it will.
I'd rather give DA that high tender,, he either remains our starter or becomes the 2nd stringer.
If DA continues to play and improve over the course of the year, then I don't want him gone AT ALL unless we get something really really good for him,, I wouldn't let him get out of town for less then a 1st!
If nobody gives us a 1st,,, I'm OK with carrying Quinn and DA for years to come.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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It is a one year offer...and if Anderson playes well, he won't want to be a 2nd stringer....heck..we might not want him to be a 2nd stringer.
Back in the days of the Couch /Holcomb debate I always said it wasn't a good situation when your 1st team player isn't much better than your 2nd team player. It creates problems. You need to have clear separation between the two.
I don't know which way this is going to go between Quinn and Anderson. I assume Quinn is still the future...but if Anderson keeps playing as he has the last 3-4 games, it is going to create a problem for Brady. It isn't going to give him much wiggle room.
What could be shrugged off as rookie error isn't going to last as long when the guy on the bench might be viewed as better....note..I said might....much has to transpire before we know where this goes.
No....if Quinn is the guy, and Anderson doesn't flame out so to speak, I don't think it would be wise to head to camp with both on the roster.
QB is the one position on the field where I don't want the back-up anywhere near as good as the starter.
It creates problems....look at SF...they had tow HOF qbs..and it created problems.
This could be just like that, be it the qbs being mentioned have a long road to go before they will be called HOF'ers.
We saw it with Couch/Holcomb...be it those guys weren't as good as the guys we have now...the problem remains no matter the level of play.
Your starter needs to be the starter. He can't be looking over his shoulder during the season....save that for the off season....not during.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If DA continues to play and improve over the course of the year, then I don't want him gone AT ALL unless we get something really really good for him,, I wouldn't let him get out of town for less then a 1st!
If nobody gives us a 1st,,, I'm OK with carrying Quinn and DA for years to come.
You keep talking about what you want but, if DA can keep this up (and that's a BIG "if"), this will become what DA wants. If DA has any desire whatsoever to start and keep his job, knowing that Quinn will be lurking in the shadows, then he goes elsewhere. It's as easy as signing the one-year tender and waiting it out. If you want to keep DA long-term, then you have to pay him a good chunk of change and trade off Quinn, since Anderson will (or sure as heck should at least) demand a commitment before signing on the dotted line. Either way, one of them has to go. Does it make more sense to trade off the guy on a one-year deal that's very easy to trade off or a guy on a rookie contract (with probably a higher ceiling) that isn't easy to trade off at all?
It's fun to look at this like Madden and say things like "I wouldn't let him get out of town for less then a 1st!" but in reality, if you don't get rid of him for fairly less than a first during this off-season, he might get out of town for absolutely nothing (see: Michael Turner), and there isn't a thing you can do about it.
We're... we're good?
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It is a one year offer
Wait,, who said it's only a 1 year offer... if they make him a high tender, it doesn't have to be for one year, it could be a multi year deal...
You may ask, why would he take that to be the second banana? Good QUestion.. but who said he'd be the second,,, why can't it be sold to him that it's a competition between him and Quinn....
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Back in the days of the Couch /Holcomb debate I always said it wasn't a good situation when your 1st team player isn't much better than your 2nd team player. It creates problems. You need to have clear separation between the two.
Couch and Holcomb was a different situation. Back then we were talking about picking the lesser of two evils.. Neither guy was a stud.
In this situation, we have a guy that is playing studly and seemingly, getting better.. and we have Quinn who by all accounts has all the traits of Studdom (is that even a word).
TO me, having clear separation between your starter and 2nd guy is a bad thing... in reality, it's what most teams have.. But I bet if you ask Bill Belichick which he'd rather have.. Two Tom Bradys or a Tom Brady and a Vinny Testiverde.. I bet you he says Two Tom Bradys.
The only reason to have clear separation is for the fans... otherwise, I can't imagine it being a good thing..... Think Joe Montana and Steve Young rather than Tim Couch and Kelly Holcomb.
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No....if Quinn is the guy, and Anderson doesn't flame out so to speak, I don't think it would be wise to head to camp with both on the roster.
Why not? To satisfy fans.. I would think the better the players are, the better the team is. The only time this doesn't work is when having two capable QB's divides the loyality of teammates.. and if the Coach allows that to happen, then he's the bad guy..
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It creates problems....look at SF...they had tow HOF qbs..and it created problems
Only when it became clear that Montana was on the downside.. then they made the move they had to make. We aren't even in that boat yet.. and besides,, I don't think we can call either of our two guys HOF's.....YET!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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You keep talking about what you want but, if DA can keep this up (and that's a BIG "if"), this will become what DA wants.
True enough,,, and in that case, Phil has to do what's best for the club and if that's accepting less, then he's gotta do what he's gotta do.
In which case, if he (phil) thinks thats a possibility, then someone better find out if Quinn is the real deal.... Don't you think?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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You keep talking about what you want but, if DA can keep this up (and that's a BIG "if"), this will become what DA wants.
True enough,,, and in that case, Phil has to do what's best for the club and if that's accepting less, then he's gotta do what he's gotta do.
In which case, if he (phil) thinks thats a possibility, then someone better find out if Quinn is the real deal.... Don't you think?
Exactly. The way the current scenario is setting up, DA could play well all year and STILL get traded because we can't give up on Brady (being our first rounder this year) without even giving him an NFL game. I'd love to have this whole situation sorted out and decide who gives us the best chance to win, but that isn't going to happen until Brady hits the field, which no one seems to want to happen right now. As for me, I want to win now just like everyone else, but why not do it and figure out our QB situation at the same time? I'm not an advocate of pulling DA when he's succeeding at all but, if he struggles, you have to seriously consider it for the good of our team both now and in the future.
The window of opportunity is short - we need to figure things out as soon as possible so that the guy we do keep is the best quarterback for us.
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Your right....I was thinking franchise tag, which is a year to year deal.
I still don't see Anderson too keen on signing a long term deal, at which point it becomes a 1 year deal. And I doubt the Browns go too wild with their offer because they can't afford to pay starting pay to two qbs for very long....if Anderson turns around the other way again, I doubt they want to be stuck in a 5 year deal worth 2-3 mil a year.
No matter what, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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.. " Studdom " You get my vote for word of the week !  .. I was on the DA. band wagon late last season ( Frye vs. Anderson  .. I like him and hate in the same half of a game ( I'm not alone ) .. The young man has 10 ( at least ) games to show what he can do ( progress or not ) .. .. I still think much of the credit gos to Chud's game plan and calling #1 , and a real " OL " for the first time in an century .  .. Now throw in the development of Win2 and Edwards ; excuse me Mr. Edwards ( I am eating crow ) and you have the makings of a real offense with a QB. that just dosn't loose the game for you . .. Not to worry about a QB. situation  .. Think about how to get back into the first round in next years draft and get a ton of help fir the front seven on the " D ".
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but that isn't going to happen until Brady hits the field, which no one seems to want to happen right now.
Kinda what I think as well,, I'm hoping I'm wrong and RAC finds a way to get Quinn some quality time this season..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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If we keep winning and Anderson keeps playing well......Quinn only gets in if Anderson gets dinged.
At least for here and now, this is Derek Andersons team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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" Studdom " You get my vote for word of the week !
FInally,, I get the Coveted WOTW Award!
I want to thank my mother and father for teaching me to never give up and I'd like to thank..................................Blah Blah Blah.............................
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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To a degree, I agree that this IS DA's team... RIGHT NOW! And I suppose, like San Diego, we won't let a 1st rounder sit on the bench forever.... But I have two concerns.. In no particular order, they are: I don't want to lose DA without getting something for him And I want to know if BQ is the real deal before we are forced into doing something with DA. I have no idea if both can be done.. Faith in BQ may have to come from within rather than seeing him on the field.. Not sure. That's pretty much what happened in San Diego and it worked out ok... (until Chud, Cam Cameron and Marty all either left or were fired) I guess we'll see soon enough,, In the mean time, I'm enjoying watching a rather interesting and exciting Offense take the field...... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Good point Shot. We don't want DA to just walk away and we want to know what we have with BQ. Kinda hard to do both w/o DA getting hurt really. I'm not suggesting that DA getting hurt would be good for anyone, but it's hard to see how we can shop DA and know that our next QB is ready to go... And how ironic might it be if we trade/dump DA and turns out BQ was the next Ryan Leaf... The choices the organization makes regarding our QB situation will impact the team for years. The decision made will shape this team for many years to come. I hope they make the right one. 
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Daman, this had better be DA's team right now. The chemistry on offense is being seen growing weekly. The players have confidence in him, especially Edwards and the rest of the recievers. To change this at this point would be foolish IMO.
As for Quinn. He is still a question mark, even though many are pimping him as better than DA. I've seen one post say he has a 70% completion record to DA's 59%. Using college stats are ludicrous, until he sees live regular season action, I'm holding back my opinions.
When Quinn was holding out, I could swear that some of the holdout was about pay for being a starter. I could be wrong, but won't the team save money the longer he is on the bench?
Bottom line IMO is, if DA plays good enough to put the team in the playoff hunt, I can't see a coach with any sense at all pulling him. Next years training camp should be where his fate is decided. If it was me, I'd sign him to an extension now, and let the future play itself out. Talks of him gone before Quinn proves he can play are not reasonable.
#gmstrong
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And how ironic might it be if we trade/dump DA and turns out BQ was the next Ryan Leaf...
Oh man, I just read that and a chill went up my spine...... YIKES,,,, I don't even want to give that another thought..... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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That's why you don't trade anyone without knowing what you have in the replacement 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Talks of him gone before Quinn proves he can play are not reasonable.
Not reasonable is putting it mildly. Quinn's proven nothing as of yet.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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That's why you don't trade anyone without knowing what you have in the replacement
Welcome to my neighborhood,, would you be my, could you be my,, Neighbor! 
Now boys and girls,,, How do we find out if the replacement is adequate to fill the shoes of the current guy?
Can you say "PLAY HIM"?
I'm so easily amused 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Faith in BQ may have to come from within rather than seeing him on the field
....Parcells pretty much knew what he had in Romo without seeing him during a game...I think Rac might know more about where BQ's at at this time then we give him credit for.
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I think Rac might know more about where BQ's at at this time then we give him credit for.
After the Frye fiasco, I wouldn't put a lot of credence in RAC's qb eval ability.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I think Rac might know more about where BQ's at at this time then we give him credit for.
After the Frye fiasco, I wouldn't put a lot of credence in RAC's qb eval ability.
I think we can all agree tha Frye played the best in preseason though..
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Posts: 39,678
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
After the Frye fiasco, I wouldn't put a lot of credence in RAC's qb eval ability.
I think that applies to O in general.
If RAC had his way Chuck would be QB and Mo would still be calling plays, and everything would be fine in RACs eyes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
After the Frye fiasco, I wouldn't put a lot of credence in RAC's qb eval ability.
I think that applies to O in general.
If RAC had his way Chuck would be QB and Mo would still be calling plays, and everything would be fine in RACs eyes.
i dont think so
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
i dont think so
Great.
I do.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
After the Frye fiasco, I wouldn't put a lot of credence in RAC's qb eval ability.
I think that applies to O in general.
If RAC had his way Chuck would be QB and Mo would still be calling plays, and everything would be fine in RACs eyes.
i dont think so
And you would have David Greene as our QB!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Quote:
And you would have David Greene as our QB!
umm... and ur point? lol...
look how many wins he got in college?
he didn't even a get a chance to prove he is ready for the NFL..
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103 |
Quote:
Quote:
And you would have David Greene as our QB!
umm... and ur point? lol...
look how many wins he got in college?
he didn't even a get a chance to prove he is ready for the NFL..
It was a joke...funny haha.
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