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I can't believe these threads. All I read from fans are how bad DA is and it's only shoddy defenses that make him look good, if DA keeps winning I wonder what we'll get in a trade, I'm sure Brady Quinn is the real deal even if he has never taken a regular season snap in the NFL.
Even if DA is good because of his supporting cast in this offensive scheme, why change that? It still means he's good as a Brown and is producing more wins. Are people so big on Quinn and the "future" that they are missing the proven future that is unfolding this season? The scary thought to some: What if DA continues to get better and our little boy Quinn doesn't start for a very long time?
I'd hope they sign a contract extention for at least a couple years to see how DA pans out in the long run. Good news is we still have the potential of a viable backup in Quinn (notice the word "potential").
I agree Hew. Right now, BQ has raw potential. That's it. DA is producing wins as the Browns QB. Actual NFL wins should trump potential.
![[Linked Image from i45.tinypic.com]](http://i45.tinypic.com/adhq2o.gif)
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DA is doing all the right things. He's got the measurements, arm strength, height, size. He's showing that he can make the throws. And he's putting points on the board, and winning games. Plus, he's only 25.
I hated DA, but the guy has shown that he can play. Sure Chud's offense has helped him realize his potential. But look at the offense---its actually productive, its consistent. I see no reason to put in Quinn unless DA completely falls off the wagon. I don't even see the point in keeping Quinn if Anderson continues to progress.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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'Toad isn't arguing that DA hasn't done a good job pummeling the league's punching bags, but rather, that the fact that he has says little for his value and future performance against competitive defenses. At this point right now, do you think a GM is going to be coaxed into giving up a high pick (especially in such a QB heavy class) for a guy whose wins this year are against teams with a 6-24 combined record, three of whom have given up 92, 100 and 102 QB ratings on average to opposing QBs? They're going to want to see more, 'Toad wants to see more, I want to see more, and it makes perfect sense.
I broke down DA DURING THE preseason to Pitdawg and told him he's inconsistant...wait till we play Pitt and Bmore again and see if he plays BETTER against them then he did before.
He is still repeating the same mistakes he is known for, but he is covering them up and being bailed out later in the games..
FYI the Seattle game is going to test him this week...
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Legend
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i'm perfectly fine with DA's "mistakes" if he keeps putting up 28 points a game, and plays anything close to his present TD/interception ratio...
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I don't even see the point in keeping Quinn if Anderson continues to progress.
Now that would be an interesting conversation with Savage, RAC and Lerner...
... so, we spent next year's first round on him
... yep!
... now, we don't want him (at least on the money we just gave him)
... yep!
... think anyone else will take him?
... someone will eventually!
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do you think a GM is going to be coaxed into giving up a high pick (especially in such a QB heavy class)
watching this 'QB class' makes me really happy we got Quinn last year. I can't say that any of them really excite me. The kentucky kid has odd mechanics and a long windup. BC's Ryan isn't very mobile and if you get him on the move, not very accurate. Henne tanked this year, same with Booty. Brennen- yikes, system qb. The new brand of college qb- Tebow and the rest would make me nervous at the nfl level.
Who else has looked good????
Anderson has value. Give him the high tender, problem solved for a year.
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i'm perfectly fine with DA's "mistakes" if he keeps putting up 28 points a game, and plays anything close to his present TD/interception ratio...
Except that in the three games DA has played against the Bengals, Dolphins and Rams (three of the worst defenses in the league with a 2-21 combined record), DA has put up 11 TDs and 1 INT. Outside of those games, he's 6 TD and 7 INT. Let's see him keep it going against Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore again before we crown him.
We're... we're good?
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DA didn't make up the schedule he just gets to play it.
I can see it now... some GM debating trading for DA is in the office looking at his stat sheets, film and splits and realizes he's only beaten cupcakes, but then he says "DA didn't make up the schedule he just gets to play it." and deals his first and third off. 
'Toad isn't arguing that DA hasn't done a good job pummeling the league's punching bags, but rather, that the fact that he has says little for his value and future performance against competitive defenses. At this point right now, do you think a GM is going to be coaxed into giving up a high pick (especially in such a QB heavy class) for a guy whose wins this year are against teams with a 6-24 combined record, three of whom have given up 92, 100 and 102 QB ratings on average to opposing QBs? They're going to want to see more, 'Toad wants to see more, I want to see more, and it makes perfect sense.
I'm thankful of our performance thus far but beating the teams we're supposed to is only one part of the equation.
I understand completely what you are saying. I agree to a certain degree. I have a wait and see outlook as well. And I do not think it is a unrealistic approach to the situation with DA. And I suppose we are all getting ahead of ourselves to a degree.
That all said assuming DA continues to perform near the level he has I would if I where a GM be inclined to think or at least consider trading for DA. There are teams as of this moment that are a QB away from being playoff teams, or at least much better then they currently are without a decent QB. That in and of itself would be motivation enough to get some teams to pony up.
Since you mentioned it I have a question for you tho. Who is in the draft that you would trade for DA right now out of the QB crop to come??
To me it is simple, a QB that has proven to at least some degree in the NFL that he can get it done, against a kid that by all appearances may or may not be able to even come close to what DA is doing at this juncture. Not to mention experience, and hey DA is what 25, there may very well be several QB's in the draft that have way more potential and in fact may have great careers, but none of them have proven anything at the NFL level, none of them have a day of NFL experience, and none of them have even beatin a team that is as good as the worst NFL team, and DA has shown at least some ability to be very good. You aren't going to do better in the draft IMHO, hell most of them don't really even have much of a youth advantage over DA. No DA IMHO is worth trading a #1 for and you have done more to convince me of that fact then any post I have read, your points raised some valid ideas, now after some thought I think DA is worth more then a #1, we will see, interesting, and thanks for the ideas..
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Since you mentioned it I have a question for you tho. Who is in the draft that you would trade for DA right now out of the QB crop to come??
Despite what the media and the talking heads say about DA, I think perception is a bit different from people in the know. Granted, I bet you anyone looking for a quarterback will take a second look at Anderson after what he's done so far, but remember Phil's comment when he traded Frye - he dealt Frye because he had more offers for him. There's something about DA when watching film that people didn't like, but that has thus far been masked behind horrible opponents and great line and receiver play. Could he continue? Of course... but he could also regress against better competition.
At this point, watching DA beat up on easy opponents isn't going to get anyone forking over a #1. A later pick, perhaps, but a #1 is a bit too high to hope for at the present moment. Now, if he continues his hot streak against Seattle, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc., then the possibility grows by leaps and bounds.
In the draft right now, there are a few quarterbacks (Brohm, Woodson, Ryan) among others that teams would take over DA. For whatever reason (and there's plenty of random ones), a proven player isn't worth as much in a trade as a draft pick. Look at what some of the highest caliber trades have gotten over the years. Even Schaub, who was considered a top trade target, only got two 2nd rounders and a swap of a couple draft slots. If you ask GMs around the league which QB they would take right now, dollars to donuts they say Schaub, regardless of what Anderson is doing right now.
A team isn't going to acquire a player so he can beat up on weak teams while crumbling against the ones that matter. When DA shows he's more than that, his value will be where people assume it is right now. Until then, I think many are guilty of overvaluing him.
We're... we're good?
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Except that in the three games DA has played against the Bengals, Dolphins and Rams (three of the worst defenses in the league with a 2-21 combined record)
Explain to me how these are three of the worst defenses. I know Cincy is and the Fins are terrible, but St. Louis? I haven't seen any of their games (except for ours) so all I can go by is stats. The fact is they give up a lot of points. They also play more on defense because of completely inept offense. St. Louis hasn't played a team lower than 17th in total offense (except San Fran).Just because they haven't won doesn't mean they're the worst. Oakland was considered to be one of the best defenses last year yet they couldn't win but a couple of games.
Bad records are not always indicitive of bad defenses. St. Louis has given up a lot of points because they were playing on short fields.
You have brought up opposing QB's ratings in another thread. The QB ratings for QB's they have played are..
Jake Delhomme CAR 111.8 Not enough passes to qualify (125.4)
2 Jeff Garcia TB 106.2 (83.7 against St. Loius)
6 Tony Romo DAL 95.6 (115.6)
7 Kurt Warner ARI 95.2 (69 in split duty)
11 Derek Anderson CLE 88.9 (143 against St. Louis)
12 Matt Hasselbeck SEA 88.7 (75.3 against St. Louis)
24 Kyle Boller BAL 78.4 (63.8 against St. Louis)
29 Matt Leinart ARI 61.9 (47 against St. Louis)
Alex Smith SF 66.6 not enough games to quaify (64.7 against St. Louis)
Now I'm not saying St. Louis is a premier defense, but I don't think they are as bad as portrayed. DA did have a higher QB rating in the Baltimore game than he deserved. He got bailed out on some terrible decisions. The thing is his decision making is getting better. He is not throwing to recievers who are blanketed. He has thrown into tight coverage the last two games but has thrown the ball so well they have not been close to picks. The fact is he is improving, something I didn't think was possible.
#gmstrong
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I agree.
St Louis has a pretty good D.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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The Browns are getting so much media press right now... OMG!! its like the 10th time I heard ESPN talk about them and Anderson today...
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j/c
On NFL Countdown they just discussed DA. Mort mentioned how the Browns could put him on the market for a 1st and 3rd round pick and Bill Parcells and Mike Ditka reacted like he was crazy for even suggesting putting DA on the market. Parcells especially was against putting DA on the market, suggesting they should take Mort's temperature for suggesting something so crazy. . Thought it was interesting.
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I saw that...
the Browns MUST keep Anderson as the starter....
forget Quinn... we have no idea what he will do in the NFL..
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We keep him, and release Dorsey.
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Yeah, I agree. I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to trust Bill Parcells.
I also though it was interesting how Mort pointed out the Browns are not financially strapped to Quinn since he was the number 22 pick, and his salary is not that prohibitive.
Parcells also said how its evident that the WRs trust Anderson and love playing for him because they know he'll get them the ball. Overall they praised DA quite a bit.
It's nice to hear some positive press about the Browns, and tons of it is due to DA.
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Mort mentioned how the Browns could put him on the market for a 1st and 3rd round pick and Bill Parcells and Mike Ditka reacted like he was crazy for even suggesting putting DA on the market.
Well there you go....2 HOF guys saying Anderson is looking pretty good.....yet on here you have guys saying they aren't convinced.
Guess who I am going to listen to???
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hahaha, my thoughts exactly.
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Mort mentioned how the Browns could put him on the market for a 1st and 3rd round pick and Bill Parcells and Mike Ditka reacted like he was crazy for even suggesting putting DA on the market.
Well there you go....2 HOF guys saying Anderson is looking pretty good.....yet on here you have guys saying they aren't convinced.
Guess who I an going to listen to???
Considering these guys don't take the time to watch the games, I would say it's a toss up. One of them said DA is very accurate.  He has been playing great but accuracy isn't a strong suit.
#gmstrong
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Coach Parcells or Coach B??
Coach Ditka or Coach B??
Sorry B.....your name fit....several other names could have been used.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Considering these guys don't take the time to watch the games,
With respect, i don't think you know how much they watch or don't watch....and I also suspect they don't have to watch nearly as much as you or I to form a pretty accurate opinion.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Call me crazy, but isnt this a major "DUH", ??????
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Considering these guys don't take the time to watch the games,
With respect, i don't think you know how much they watch or don't watch....and I also suspect they don't have to watch nearly as much as you or I to form a pretty accurate opinion.
I think it is quite obvious if you listen to them talk.  Sorry, noone can get an accurate picture if they don't watch the games. They know more about football than I ever will know or be able to understand but it is impossible to get an a true idea if you haven't seen someone a lot. The guy said Anderson is an accurate QB. Are you telling me he has seen DA play? Do you actually think DA is accurate?
#gmstrong
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I don't think he is inaccurate. What was he last game??? 18/25?? Not totally sure and don't feel like looking it up right now. But....I understand your point...the season avg is in the 50's.....but for me....17n TD passes erases that that. I think you agreed with Diam that stats are for losers.....if not, I stand corrected. At any rate, you are a friend, but I think you sometimes focus on things that aren't that important.....like I never do. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Except that in the three games DA has played against the Bengals, Dolphins and Rams (three of the worst defenses in the league with a 2-21 combined record), DA has put up 11 TDs and 1 INT. Outside of those games, he's 6 TD and 7 INT. Let's see him keep it going against Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore again before we crown him.
So a win in Seattle would Garnish a little respect for DA? Somehow I don't think so with the posters on these boards, plus he has already shown the ability to beat Baltimore this year. The game I look forward to most seeing is Pitt. Though if our defense doesn' t learn how to tackle, Willie P is going to have another big day.
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But....I understand your point...the season avg is in the 50's.....but for me....17n TD passes erases that that.
17 TDs makes me look past a lot of things...including him not being very accurate. The thing is one of these ex-coaches (now a talking head) said something that is flat out wrong and I'm just pointing it out.
I don't believe stats are for losers. I just think they need to be used in context and only paint part of the picture.
As far as his accuracy issues, I don't look at his completion percentage all by itself. His will be lower than a lot of QBs because he throws downfield more. The thing is for most of the year, he is way off target on many throws. That has been changing. I think he is learning not to make as many bad decisions and getting more comfortable running the offense. We will see how he does against teams that can apply more pressure.
Overall, I think he is starting to prove to be better than I ever thought possible. When the end of the year hits I'll let you know how good I really think he is. I'm not one who isn't afraid to admit when I'm wrong so I won't be making excuses for how he turns out based on what I have said in the past. 
#gmstrong
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Ammo,
If I remember correctly, the NFL has outlawed the "poison pill" clauses because of the Hutchinson & Burleson contracts...
I did a little light searching but couldnt turn up anything. ...but I remember reading that the NFL had done something to stop it. I mean if you think about how come there weren't any offers like Hutch's and Burleson's last year? It only stands to reason that they did something to stop it or someone would have tried it with Michael Turner or Matt Schaub....
If anyone can find an article it would be much appreciated
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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clicking loki. Anderson's stats are great so far. 119-209 in att/completions 56.9 % (*big improvement past 2 games) 1,744 yards 8.3 per attempt 17Tds 8 INTs 95.5 rating (*big improvement past 2 games) 4-2 as a starter, admittedly against mostly bad teams. It might not last, but I don't see what the problem is. He's our QB and he's having a great season.
gmstrong -----------------
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I don't think so..in fact I remember the talk of the Patriots possibly doing that in the Welker deal against the Phins but they didn't include one.
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until you know exactly what Quinn brings, you can't give up a QB like DA who is set to break numerous passing records for Cleveland. Tender him the higest this year, FIND OUT what Quinn can do, and decide from there. I will trust the FO's judgement, but we need to get something for Quinn or Anderson and not let him leave just like Brees for nothing
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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We need Anderson on this team. We would be foolish to attempt to move him unless we enjoy struggling with a virgin,college QB leading our team on Sunday.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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until you know exactly what Quinn brings, you can't give up a QB like DA who is set to break numerous passing records for Cleveland. Tender him the higest this year, FIND OUT what Quinn can do, and decide from there. I will trust the FO's judgement, but we need to get something for Quinn or Anderson and not let him leave just like Brees for nothing
Brees's situation was nothing like Anderson, in that Brees has a badly blown shoulder.
Setting that aside, you gotta know that the FO won't let Anderson walk away.
(God, am I REALLY having this conversation about Derek Freakin' Anderson?!?!?!  )
If Anderson can somehow keep this up, Quinn won't get off the bench this year. The simple reason is that there'd be no need to rock Anderson's boat.
What in the world is Browns football coming to.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Ammo,
If I remember correctly, the NFL has outlawed the "poison pill" clauses because of the Hutchinson & Burleson contracts...
I did a little light searching but couldnt turn up anything. ...but I remember reading that the NFL had done something to stop it. I mean if you think about how come there weren't any offers like Hutch's and Burleson's last year? It only stands to reason that they did something to stop it or someone would have tried it with Michael Turner or Matt Schaub....
If anyone can find an article it would be much appreciated
No there is no rule, it's still a gentleman's agreement.
That'd be my worst fear, tendering DA intending to keep him but someone makes an offer we can't match.
Looking at the Tony Romo contract, it's very possible. Especially if this keeps up, teams will have more film on DA than on Romo by that point.
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Legend
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Guess who I am going to listen to???
Just remember Peen, Shannon Sharpe said the Rams were going to the Super Bowl this year. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If Anderson can somehow keep this up, Quinn won't get off the bench this year. The simple reason is that there'd be no need to rock Anderson's boat.
Dispite my criticism of Anderson I never want to see a player fail...as I said to Diam..as long as he doesn't implode and the offense bogs down he will be the starter..which I don't have a problem with.. The hiccups that he has annoys me but he is helping to get wins and thats what this team needs.. The more we win the better it is..plus it keeps that lost first round pick looking every bit as low as i hoped for 
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Since you mentioned it I have a question for you tho. Who is in the draft that you would trade for DA right now out of the QB crop to come??
Despite what the media and the talking heads say about DA, I think perception is a bit different from people in the know. Granted, I bet you anyone looking for a quarterback will take a second look at Anderson after what he's done so far, but remember Phil's comment when he traded Frye - he dealt Frye because he had more offers for him. There's something about DA when watching film that people didn't like, but that has thus far been masked behind horrible opponents and great line and receiver play. Could he continue? Of course... but he could also regress against better competition.
At this point, watching DA beat up on easy opponents isn't going to get anyone forking over a #1. A later pick, perhaps, but a #1 is a bit too high to hope for at the present moment. Now, if he continues his hot streak against Seattle, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc., then the possibility grows by leaps and bounds.
In the draft right now, there are a few quarterbacks (Brohm, Woodson, Ryan) among others that teams would take over DA. For whatever reason (and there's plenty of random ones), a proven player isn't worth as much in a trade as a draft pick. Look at what some of the highest caliber trades have gotten over the years. Even Schaub, who was considered a top trade target, only got two 2nd rounders and a swap of a couple draft slots. If you ask GMs around the league which QB they would take right now, dollars to donuts they say Schaub, regardless of what Anderson is doing right now.
A team isn't going to acquire a player so he can beat up on weak teams while crumbling against the ones that matter. When DA shows he's more than that, his value will be where people assume it is right now. Until then, I think many are guilty of overvaluing him.
Not trying to insight a riot here. I have long held the opinion that one of the key reasons the Browns offense has sucked so bad was becuase the o line sucked. I have long held the opinion wrongly if I am to agree with your POV that no QB can do well without at least an average line to protect him. I do agree that DA has no where near the success he has had if not for the line, no question, but not many if any QB's would, so your point here IMHO isn't a point, more a statement of fact. It hardly makes a case IMHO for why DA isn't a good QB, I would lean more towards the opposite actually. What I mean is this, if the O line has a good day DA will have a good day, but I believe that is true of all QB's. And yes again I agree the investment we made in the off season in upgrading the O line truly has paid off for us.
The reciever thing is like the O line thing if your the worlds best QB, you will suck if guys can't catch the ball, that is plain to see. In fact we saw a lot of balls on the ground last season, now I think our recievers are doing what their suppose to do catch the ball, I expect nothing less. So again more a statement of fact, and it really doesn't lesson DA's value since all QB's have to have recievers who can catch the ball.
You continue to make a point that DA hasn't done well against the better teams, lets look OK, he did haddle baltimore rather well, and he made a lot of mistakes against a great NE team, so did romo, and so will Manning would be my GUESS, so how good does DA have to be. he played like crap against NE, in the 1st half, but actually did pretty well in the 2nd half, as he did in the Raider game as well. I would expect a QB in his 1st year as a starter to have problems, but honestly, how can anybody be down on a guy that is starting his what 8th 9th gane that is number 2 in the NFL in TD's, and inspite of the competion has shown improvement from week to week. If your looking for negatives you can find them thats for sure, but the positives far outway the negatives that is plan for all to see. I expect DA will make mistakes as will Brady and as will Manning. It would be unbelievable for any QB to have the level of experience that DA has to have anywhere near the numbers he does, yet you find fault. I honestly believe he has done great, better then anyone has any right to expect.
The GM's in the league know better then anybody what a young QB goes thru, and they know what a young QB, goes thru when they are young and still learning with their 1st actual starting position, like it or not DA has performed at a level to this point in the season that will have GM's doing more then just looking or giving a 2nd look. Part of being a upper tear team vs a lower tear team is beating the teams in the lower tear. As you make this ascent up the food chain you begin to feast on teams that are in the upper tear with you then your a NE, or a Colts team, for now we are a upper tear team that has just begun to feast on lower tear teams, and a BIG Big part of that reason is because DA has solidified the QB position on the Browns. And yes I agree if the Browns are to begin to fiest on the upper tear it's not really DA that needs to play better it is the Defense that will need to play better. DA's level of play has been exceptable in every game IMHO. Could it be better, darned right it could, and given time I think it will be, at least the trend is towards better, and to me thats good enough for now, and bet your bottom dollar the teams that are looking for a QB, are looking squarely at DA, draft to the side..
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
Quote:
Guess who I am going to listen to???
Just remember Peen, Shannon Sharpe said the Rams were going to the Super Bowl this year.
That comment was about Parcells and Ditka....not Shannon Sharpe.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 435
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 435 |
Embrace it Toad! lol
Who woulda thought...Derek freakin Anderson.
I even remember saying he couldnt hit the broadside of a barn with a pass during preseason.
This crow is mighty good with hot sauce.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
I'm giving him three more games before I'm anointing him our savior.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Does he have to win them or just play well?
yebat' Putin
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Do The Browns Do Next Year
With FA Derek Anderson?
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