DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Why I’m Voting For Opposite Man (Video)

Funny and clever.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/v...umn/3665008001/


Longish read, but necessary, in the interest of thoroughness. Glad I took the time.

Another Republican is finally stepping up to echo my observations of the past 4 years. Thanks so much, for finally growing some spinal cartilage at this late date. We really could have used you 2.5-3 years ago. And this past January, but whatever.

So now we have 4-star Generals who worked under him
Diplomats who worked under him
Justice Dept higher-ups who worked under him
Fired cabinet members who worked under him
a disgraced, imprisoned lawyer who worked under him
[insert any number of others here] who worked for/under him

all saying the same thing(s) about him.

None of these people are flaming liberals, whackadoo nutjobs or sinister deep state operatives. They were career public employees along with hand-picked folks on his side (until he said they weren't- and sent them packing). And they are all saying the same thing(s)- with maddening consistency.

In the early days of this admin, I used to say "drip, drip, drip" as these people/stories came out. I canned that quote a long time ago. We now have basically a fire hose of info from intimate, inside sources who give us the portrait of the man. The more they speak up, the sharper that portrait becomes.

I think this rising wave of revelations are coming from these people because they have a great fear of what a 2nd-term Donald Trump presidency would bring us. They know him in ways we never could... and they've all become a chorus singing in unison. The only way a person can no longer hear them is if he's actively tying to not listen.


I don't know what else to say about this any more.

You could tell the other half of the country what you preferred candidate has to offer them. and I am serious, that is how most people are going to cast their vote.

We have all pretty much acknowledged that both candidates are corrupt, so no point fighting about that.

So, if Biden is offering a voter nothing, then why should it matter if other politicians and bureaucrats support him?

Complete and utter false equivalency

How so?

You want to know what Biden offers? He offers promise and hope from the platform of the demoratic party.

Want to know what they have to offer everyday Americans? Let me give you some information from his platform.

Link

Some things he's offered that will help all Americans?

Student debt forgiveness.
Free post-secondary education to those under a certain income bracket.
Meaningful healthcare reform.

These very things will change the world for my students where I live s003apr. I would love to know what President Trump did to make life better for Alaska Natives. Do you know anything, other than a token visit by AG Barr, that he offers to the community that I serve.

Check the link. You'll see what he has to offer.

Obama's healthcare reforms have ended up costing people like me $10s of thousands. It was a gift to the drug and insurance industries. It is a giant negative for the vast majority of working middle class Americans. Trump has signed an executive order that requires drug companies to charge the same low prices in the U.S. that they charge elsewhere. That means my family members can stop trying to find ways of getting drugs from Canada. The ACA offered something for some Americans that were low income and high risk, but it came at the expense of everyone else. Mostly it was just a gift to Insurance and Big Pharma. Why would you expect the same players to deliver something different this time around?

The education plan offers something to some people and I can see why young adults would love for someone else to pay for them to spend a couple of years in an education resort. But, I also think it is incredibly unfair to give a handout worth $50K to someone to get a worthless liberal arts degree, while the kid that goes out and becomes a plumber gets nothing but the opportunity to pay taxes that go towards his college-bound friends time at a 4 year party. This plan is going to hurt most Americans for the benefit of few - and arguably not even for their benefit because it keeps them from becoming responsible adults.

For the majority of Americans that bear the burden of responsibility to keep this country moving forward through hard work, productivity, and civid pride, these plans offer nothing but the opportunity to bear more of the load.

Here are some other progressive reforms that we had under Obama that you can expect to get more of:
1) Increased wars and foreign conflict by war criminals - since under Obama we dropped more bombs than any other presidency (the Air Force actually ran out of bombs), and had conflicts in 7 different countries. We contributed to a genocide in Yemen, provided weapons used by Al-Nusra and ISIS in Syria. I could go on...

2) Increased use of intelligence assets against U.S. citizens and Congress - Use the CIA to spy on reporters and Senate committees, just like they did under Obama

3) Increased use of the espionage act to go after whistle blowers and hold them without trial and also using the espionage act against foreign journalists and plotting to assassinate them, torturing whistle-blowers like Chelsea Manning, Basically, try to punish and kill anyone that tries to tell the truth.

4) When hard times come, get behind the banks and big businesses, bail them out while they allow 5.1 Million Americans to get kicked out of their homes

5) Authorizing and providing for the increased militarization of the police

6) Approval of increased Artic and Gulf drilling


Biden has only one thing to offer ALL Americans. That is his investment in cleaner energy, but, like all of his projects, it will only happen if he gets to pick and choose which companies get to cherry pick which friends get to profit off of that investment.

Could you provide sources that back up your claims?

And since we're talking about it, more people were deported under Obama than any other president before him. We had 75 straight months of job growth. The auto industry was saved which saved tens of thousands of good paying jobs.

Obama Care is so awful that despite it being One of Trump's very top priorities ... despite him having the Senate and the House and all this time .... he couldn't come up with something better.

Who knew healthcare could be so complicated ??

It seems you have gone from trying to be fair and balanced to being very skewed as we get closer to the elections.

So you didn’t read his plans. Let me help a little more.

He wants to provide people with insurance but it’ll be capped at 8.5% of a persons income. For someone making 42k a year, that’s roughly 350 a month. It’s less than 10k a year.

The education plan covers college, vocational, and job programs for immediate employment.

Take your Obama WHATABOUT to another thread. He isn’t running. Look through my post history on how I felt about him.

From what I've been reading from right leaning publications, the Democrats seem to be running the Hillary Clinton/Hunter Biden ticket and I'm not really sure I can get on board with that.

When people post Trump talking points, I will gladly call it out as well. The reason that I have more to say about the democrat points is simply because you, Pit, Rocket, Clem, Swish and OCD post a lot more content than the other side.

The reason I point these things out that I did is because those are displays of hypocrisy for anyone that considers themselves liberal or progressive.

I am an independent. I give my vote to candidates that preferably are moral, and if there is no morally superior candidate, at least have something to offer me and my community. Clemdawg alluded that there was nothing left to say. I am saying, make a convincing argument that Biden has something to offer the working people that shoulder the burden for this country and that he is actually not just pandering like his close associates have done in the past, because I have yet to see a single convincing argument that Biden is going to do anything for the working middle class. And words on a website are cold comfort because anybody can put words on a website, I am talking about showing us wheels in motion, something we can count on.

Biden's website is the most comprehensive list of policy that I have ever seen from a candidate. He is promising to give out free stuff like Bob Barker. It's clearly just pandering. There is no past or present action behind it. He is not going to hand out free stuff and if he does happen to give your group something, then the billionaires are not going to pay for it. Just like the ACA, it is going to be financed at the expense of the working class. He has a track record.

The managed decline of the greatest country, America, by an elitest few
in conjunction with a totalitarian group
resulting in the enslavement of the people
to Chinese interests.

This is what someone is voting for if they are voting for the democrats.

Only question is would it be enslavement to American traitor billionaires, who serve Chinese interests,
or enslavement to China outright.

Probably a, now then later scenario.

But hey, Trump is weird so who cares what happens to every living American Citizen, right?
pfft. You left leaning voters think, they won't come for you? So blinded, until it's too late.

Interesting opinions.

Where’s the factual basis for your opinions?

I appreciate the post. I don't agree with your conclusion on Biden but appreciate the post.

I see you refused to post sources for your above assertions. I wasn't holding my breath.

I will make an honest stab at this:

1.) The Trump tax cuts preferentially helped the rich. I'm not saying that they didn't produce some tax cuts for the middle class -- but on balance they were really biased towards helping the richest Americans.

Here' a few different links that support that claim, depending on which Think Tank you trust:

https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/4-27-17trumptax.png
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jSX5RHptKHY24M_SOCLUIc38ZsU=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9896769/tpc_final.png
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/YyGV2hVxv9fnXHDUbpLPRxHH8_k=/0x0:951x605/1720x0/filters:focal(0x0:951x605):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9896743/Screen_Shot_2017_12_19_at_10.30.48_AM.png

2.) You can make a much more targeted tax cut to the middle class - reverse the tax cuts on the richest Americans -- and still produce a ton of new revenue for the government.

For example - the richest Americans have GAINED $845 billion dollars during the first six months of the pandemic:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news...20-9-1029599756

Most of this is due to our greater reliance on tech during the pandemic (Zoom, Microsoft teams, Amazon, etc have all made money).

And this is where trickle-down economics people really are incorrect. For the richest Americans -- I agree that you don't want to set the tax to 100% -- because then they won't produce new things.

However, it is not true that higher taxes lead to less production immediately. What you want to do is set the marginal rate of the tax on wealthy Americans such that you maximize the tax revenue from them. Most calculations anticipate that this is approximately 75%:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/15/this-eco...-75percent.html
https://www.vox.com/2019/3/19/18240377/estate-tax-wealth-tax-70-percent-warren-sanders-aoc

***NOTE: BIDEN IS NOT PROPOSING A 75% TAX ON RICH AMERICANS. EVEN BERNIE SANDERS WAS NOT PROPOSING A 75% TAX ON RICH AMERICANS. Interestingly, the US did have a 94% tax on the richest Americans as recently as 1960 (the good-old days) but that is neither here nor there.

My actual point: Lowering taxes on the middle class, and raising taxes on the richest Americans can actually produce more money for the government, and at the same time help the middle class in the current economy.

Social Programs:

1.) Obamacare - Has its high-points and low points. Many of the low points (rich companies gaining profits) was a necessary evil needed to get the votes in the senate. OTOH, the rules on pre-existing conditions have been wildly successful.

We have the most expensive medical system in the world, while offering less care than other advanced nations. Covid has exposed many of the flaws of our medical system:

1.) Hard to take time off work
2.) Slow insurance systems make it hard to rapidly acquire tests and care.
3.) People stuck with unpayable medical bills when they become sick, forcing us to bail out insurance companies.

Biden's plans are aimed to address these issues.

I can provide more, but need to run now.

Sorry Pit, just missed your post. I thought everything that I listed there was common knowledge. I am happy to find a source if you point to the one you want a source for ( I am not going to do all of them). I will even promise that I won't use a Russian news source.

What happened in San Fran yesterday?

I think that you will have a Democratic Senate, House, and President in a few months, but a year from now, the average joe will be no better off. That's just my life experience talking.

I don't disagree with any of your post, but they are not going to stick it to their masters. I think you will see them pay lip service and put in a progressive tax that looks more similar to Obama's, but they are not going to slap the wealthy with a harsh tax without giving them ample loopholes to go with it.

If I get a big tax cut, then you can tell me 'I told you so'.

I don't know, what happened?

Link isn't working

Hang on ... you were claiming that your taxes were going to go up significantly. Now you are saying you need a tax cut? Those are different talking points.

Biden - to my knowledge - isn't promising tax cuts. He's proposing increased taxes on corporations and those making over $400K.

Don't forget that he is going to triple republican trump supporter taxes and eat their kids.

You forgot about taking their guns. Like Bill Clinton and Obama did. Every Democrat either is going to or has taken their guns. Didn't you get the memo?

I'm not saying I would mind it!

Seriously though, I am not saying that I need a tax cut.

But under Biden's plans, I would in theory get one (surprise! I don't make $400K) and Jeff Bezos and Amazon would in theory get a giant tax increase in order to pay for all of these new programs like money for College education. I don't think it is a good idea to believe in these plans. Biden and his associates have a track record of saying they are going to raise revenues from the wealthy to fund government programs, but then raise funds from working folks to fund those programs.

I choose not to buy what they are selling. For me, actions speak louder than words and if I am proven wrong, I will gladly listen if you or anyone else says 'I told you so' because the plan is definitely to my advantage.

Back to my original response to Clemdawg when he said that he didn't know what else to say. If you are stumping for Biden, then you could say what is is actually going to do for people. That would be a great way to pitch a candidate if you can make that pitch in an ethical and honest manner. The only thing each of us has is 1 vote. Somebody should offer you something you care about for that vote (even if it doesn't benefit you directly) and they should have a track record of delivering on their promises. Biden is offering up a lot of new programs that are going to be very expensive. I am not going to benefit from those programs (which is fine), but based on his track record, working families are going to pay for those programs (which is not fine) and the long-term capital gains rate (where most Billionaire income is taxed at) is going to continue to stay right around 15 to 20%. If it were Bernie Sanders with these plans on his website, then it would be different. Agree with Bernie or not, he has a track record that suggests he is sincere in what he promotes. I don't agree with Bernie wanting an ultra-high tax on the highest earners, but I believe him when he says that is what he wants to achieve.

I am just mocking the absurdity of this election, where promoting a candidate has basically devolved to the point that candidates are sold to voters on the merit that they are not the other guy. What they actually offer people doesn't come under scrutiny, it's all about the other guy being evil and this candidate is not the other guy. Imagine going into a Chevy dealership and getting a pitch from the salesman about how awful Ford is and being asked to buy a Chevy based only on that premise.

The part you conveniently left out was that this was the only way he could get anything passed. It was not in any way a part of the proposal in the original legislation. Maybe you should actually try and tell the story of who it was holding out for such provisions in order to pass the bill to actually be honest about it.



It seems as though you're trying to blame Obama for the continuation of Bush policies. It wasn't the Obama administration who proposed and passed The Patriot Act. From the sounds of your post I'm guessing you were a part of the drama club in high school. Maybe even college.



You do realize the banks collapsing is what caused the Great Depression, right?



Once again you blame him for not stopping something that was actually passed and approved by the former administration.



Now you're Miss Cleo? Projection seems to be the favorite ammunition of the opposition.

Here are a few more things Biden offers America. A return to civility. A president who doesn't call for his opponents to be locked up. Someone who doesn't spend every day pitting his supporters against the rest of America. Someone whose #1 goal isn't to divide people.

The bar has been set very low and even Biden can beat the bar that is currently being set.

[1] Well you yourself said that Biden had spelled out what he plans and what he stands for more clearly than any other candidate you remember .... so clearly he is indeed putting a line in the sand. You choosing not to believe it doesn't mean that he isn't doing what you claim he and his supporters aren't doing.

[2] Frankly when the alternative is Trump - I think "vote for this person because they aren't Trump" is entirely 100% valid and merited.

[3] I agree: Trump saying vote for me because I am not Biden and he wants to raise everyone's taxes (by 12% based on the add I keep seeing), take your guns, and is controlled by the looney extremists ... none of which are true ... is baseless fearmongering and for a guy in charge for the last 4 years who does not wants to take responsibility for anything is really pathetic. Which is why point [2] is so valid.

See, that's the double edged sword. Wealthy people, and corporations, make the donations to politicians. Politicians take the money, make promises, make a big scene about raising taxes on the rich, and then write tax laws with loopholes for the wealthy, and the corporations so they can get out of higher taxes.


Because the politicians need the money to get elected. The politicians can SAY they supported the new laws, but they tell it to us peons. They can SAY it's only for the 'rich', that makes good press. The reality is generally far different.

Is this a trap?

No, it's trying to use an extreme example of a few to make it sound like how it represents some larger picture that doesn't exist.

You know, how some people act like the Proud Boys represent all Republicans.

Incorrect, yet again. It is a factual event that happened. I made no widespread example of it. The fact that you ignore it, as does the media, speaks quite loudly.

Oh I don't ignore it. It's terrible. Lots of factual events happen. What and which events are chosen to be brought to light by certain individuals aren't random acts. They choose which events they feel worthy of being brought to light and which events don't.

So, Trump has so many issues that many times his own party members won't stick up for him. He is such a bad President that you might think it is important to beat him at all costs. Any President might be acceptable as long as it's not him. But what if the DNC picked such a bad candidate that he manages to lose to Donald Trump?

Are you okay with that?

Do you understand how someone like Donald Trump can beat Hillary Clinton in a country where there are more Democrats than Republicans? Do you understand how Joe Biden could still manage to lose?

Let me tell you, it is not moderately progressive or liberal ideas that are keeping Independents from coming out for the Democratic candidate. It's trust that is the issue.

Could be that. Could be the left just simply hates trump enough that they would vote for anyone but him, as it seems they are. No problem with that. I voted not 'for' trump, but against hillary.

But what drives me crazy is the msm totally ignoring anything negative about biden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnISKaknyII

You don't get to see the bad, the negative about biden. And other than some fox, or checking out foreign press, you never will. People don't do that. I call them ignorant. They don't want the truth, they want THEIR truth.

Hunter biden, drug addict using his dad as fodder for a pay day, and his dad benefitting from the pay day. Literally.

Hunter getting a job/contract with gas company in Ukraine? For what? Smoking crack? Hunter getting a 'consultation' contract with china......for what? Other than money, contact with is dad. The mayor of moscow's wife sending hunter 3.5 million? For what? Access to his dad.

Oh, and let's not forget the 2 'partners' of Hunter that are now in jail awaiting trial, and long prison terms while hunter gets off scott free? Odd, isn't it?

But you won't see any of that on cnn, nbc, cbs, abc, msnbc, etc. They shut it down by downplaying anything hunter related. And no, hunter isn't running for president, his dad is. However, his dad is complicit in it, in a hidden manner. What was Joe called in the e-mails? Joe gets 10%.

Same with the Ukraine investigator that got fired because biden threatened to withhold a billion dollars if they (ukraine) didn't fire the investigator..........you know the clip, where biden is on camera threatening to withhold the billion, and gave them 6 hours to do so, and his "son of a B..., they fired him".

I mean - the Republican Senate just put out a 70 page report that never alleges that Joe Biden did anything improper in his dealings with Burisma/Ukraine:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/s...b378ee/full.pdf

They make some allegations that Hunter cashed in on his Dad's popularity....

I think Republicans are in a fairly weak position to argue that children cashing in on their Dad's presidency is an election issue.