What a complete waste of time. One guy is just attack, attack, attack. The other guy is delivering platitudes and telling stories about the olden times.
Who lost? The American people. Who wins?
I won, because I watched the football game instead.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Trump was, as usual, making outlandish statements, most of which were complete lies. The man is inept. The fact that anyone can believe this man should be a leader of their nation is beyond me. It just proves to me even more that people are treating political parties like their sports teams now. They will vote and root for their “team” no matter how awful they are.
Forgot he would regulate everything on earth in the name of climate change.
Listening to Biden, if you drive a gasoline car, He won't let you have it anymore. Biden just said he's going to get rid of Gaoline engines for electric, 200 million electric charging stations or something, was his only answer.
Biden: Are you going to End oil??? "Yes"
Bidens Health plan on covid:
Biden what are you going to do on covid??
Bidens' plan, COUNT THE DEATHS, AND PLACE BLAME.
as a side note he mentions doing what's already being done, "masks" and "shutdowns if a percentage occurs" and of course NATIONALIZE THE SHUTDOWNS,
Bidens first response to Covid, "Number of people who died" and, "Blame it on Trump" and then,
blah blah, Bidens answer is stuff TRUMP ALREADY DID!!
Bidens own words, " I'm gonna put us back in the paris climate accord"
What a flippin Moroon! (In Bugs Bunnies' words)
Oh, and Biden is going to attack private health insurance after they already about chopped it halfway down, he want's to set it on fire as well, The Democrats in charge of health care = disasterous disaster, and compounding disasters!! In a disasterous way.
"Who built the cages Joe" "Who Built the cages???" Obama and Biden built the cages!!
They Broke it and Trump Fixed it.
Much like the TPP vs the ACC, something< it's how Trump fixed dirty smoke stacks better than the overregulating democrats. LOOK IT UP! He took their BullStuff unconstituoinal regulations and instead of fighting a court case that might get overturned, TRUMP FOLLOWED THEM, IN A BETTER WAY, AND SOLVED THE PROBLEM
These questions crack me up. So many of them are about convicts, drug users, illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, etc. Yet, no questions about the middle class. Pffttt. Then, the moderator keeps telling Trump to stop talking and let's Biden talk uninterrupted.
I am not going to debate any of you because I think most of the folks on this forum are despicable, but I am saying that I will not be swayed by the liberal media's portrayal of what is going down. I'm voting for Trump because the Conservatives are best for hard-working families such as my own.
OMG the Trump supporters think Trump won this debate. THIS is where we are as a country. Sure, Trump was on a leash and acted a little more civil but he drug conspiracy theories, lies, misinformation, and outrageous comments into the debate all night! He's just disgraceful as a POTUS, he should never have had a position beyond carnival barker in this world, but money will put a dumbass in front of a scholar every time.
The left thinks Biden handled business, the right thinks Trump won hands down... NOTHING CHANGED. Trump has to go, worst president ever and a miserable horrible person in general. Regardless of who wins this election, this country is pretty much done IMHO.
Half the country jumped on a train to wackadoodle-ville in 2016 and the other half that still believes in facts, science and what their eyes see (the left for those who can't do the math) are struggling to see any path forward with the Y'allyban right. The grand experiment is all but over thanks to stupid people creating some sort of alternate reality and thinking they are somehow better than the rest of the country and the world in general.
And let me clarify this, I do not by any means think being republican or a Trump supporter automatically makes you a stupid person. However, a smart person that makes a stupid mistake, learns from it, corrects it, and moves on... there is not much moving on from Trump on the right, so the facts speak for themselves.
"Stupid is as stupid does" ~ thanks to Mr. Gump we can now define all things Trump.
Pffft... I do like some of the Trumpians on here, but right now I wouldn't whiz on them if they were on fire. I've spent a lot less time in here and have been getting back into my workshop more. I'm going tomorrow morning to vote early for Biden, then other than following the outcome and clowning on a few posters that I do not like that much, I'm done with talking about it.
And one more note on the debate... Listening to Trump expound about how he has been better for black people than any president other than 'maybe' Lincoln made me think about how a poster on here makes a similar laughable claims. Both claims are at best asinine, if not outright insane.
Definition of a narcissist:
Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.
Proud boys are piiiiisssed they got called the ‘poor boys’ during the debate lmfao
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
OMG the Trump supporters think Trump won this debate.
Yes they do, and the Biden supporters think he won the debate. While I don't think many folks in the middle think either side won anything. For me (that does not include anybody else)I was a bit surprised that Biden lied so many times. Not that it matters because Trump lies all the time.
I actually thought the moderator did a pretty good job.
I also think hiden got his ass handed to him.
I thought the moderator did pretty decent as well, but that also goes to show hoe low the standards have gotten. She was very diligent about pressing Trump for details (which she should do) but didn't press Biden nearly as hard for the same level of detail.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Biden’s lie about fracking — “I never said I opposed fracking” — was so egregious that even CNN’s Daniel Dale mentioned it in his after-action report. Biden has repeatedly suggested banning fracking, sometimes specifying new fracking, sometimes specifying on federal lands (where a lot of fracking takes place), and has even promised to “get rid of fossil fuels.
Biden claimed, “There is no evidence that when you raise the minimum wage, businesses go out of business. That is simply not true.” Here’s a Washington Post story citing exactly that evidence.
he lied some more in the debate, for instance when he dismissed the now well-supported New York Post story about Hunter Biden’s business dealing as “a Russian plant.” There is zero evidence for this. He offered this line:
There are 50 former national intelligence folks who said what he’s accusing me of is a Russian plant. Five former heads of the CIA — both parties — say what he’s saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except him and his good friend Rudy Giuliani.”
He lied when he said no one under Obamacare lost private health coverage.
However like I said Trump was telling whoppers himself.
I didn't watch the debate ... and not saying this is you, but if the Trump supporters are getting upset about Biden telling porky pies ... ... it would be comedy at it's finest.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I watched it all. Even recorded a Fox station and CNN so I could watch the responses from both Channels after the debate. HOLY CRAP I must have missed two debates out of three last night as CNN saw and talked about a debate I didn't see, and Fox saw and talked about a debate I didn't see. Talk about the truth being in the middle.
I think that's a good assessment. He has to nail down a stance on fracking and be specific. It seems that he is trying to ride the fence until the election gets here. The attack ads are going to come out on that point very soon.
When the debate turned to corruption, it gave me a pit in my stomach because I thought both candidates were correct.
I think this was by far the best debate in terms of both flow and moderation. I sure won't feel a sense of exuberance though either way this election turns out. For me, it's about not feeling worse.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
I gotta say, I was shocked at how organized and civil (for lack of a better word). I kept trying to figure out what the moderator was doing, but she was extremely effective keeping everyone in check. It did start unraveling at about the hour mark, but I'm still really impressed at how smoothly it went for that long.
I actually felt Trump was much more effective than he usually is during this time. He eventually unraveled and started spouting whatever (like he usually does), but I felt he landed some hits while Biden really struggled to do so.
I do not understand why Biden struggles so much to land hits on Trump. The ammo to do so is everywhere. His best line was when he hit back at Trump about "blue states vs red states", and how "I'm a democrat, but I would be a United States president"... only to say in the next breath "but the red states are doing worse right now". Way to go, Joe. Your best line and you shot yourself in the foot.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Biden’s lie about fracking — “I never said I opposed fracking” — was so egregious that even CNN’s Daniel Dale mentioned it in his after-action report. Biden has repeatedly suggested banning fracking, sometimes specifying new fracking, sometimes specifying on federal lands (where a lot of fracking takes place), and has even promised to “get rid of fossil fuels.
Biden: "I have never said that I oppose fracking." This one is messy. Biden has misstated his own position at least once in the past, but his opponents have taken that misstatement and wrongly presented it as his position.
Biden’s position is that the United States needs to transition away from fossil fuels, but he doesn’t want to ban fracking outright. Instead, he opposes fracking on public lands and wants to stop the federal government from issuing new permits for drilling. He says that he’ll allow fracking to continue on private lands, where most of it takes place.
Biden did misspeak during a debate with Bernie Sanders in March 2020 when he said he supported a ban on "new fracking." He walked back those remarks the same day and has repeatedly said since then that he doesn’t support a ban on fracking right now.
I believe a key point is that very little fracking takes place on federal lands:
https://www.crainscleveland.com/energy-a...uld-restrict-it "The impact of Biden's plan would be limited since most fracking occurs on private land, not public. Onshore oil production on federally owned land was approximately 6.5% of the U.S. total in 2019, and onshore federal gas production made up 10% of the U.S. total, according to consulting firm ClearView Energy Partners."
Quote:
Biden claimed, “There is no evidence that when you raise the minimum wage, businesses go out of business. That is simply not true.” Here’s a Washington Post story citing exactly that evidence.
Factcheck.org has this. It seems like a lie to say "none" -- but it's not a strong correlation:
Biden & Trump on Minimum Wage Both Trump and Biden erred on the likely effects of increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour.
Biden went too far when he said there is “no evidence” that raising the minimum wage causes businesses to go bankrupt.
Biden: And there is no evidence that when you raise the minimum wage, businesses go out of business. That is simply not true.
He would have been correct to say the evidence is scanty.
It’s true that last year a Seattle-based restaurant chain, Restaurants Unlimited Inc., filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection claiming that minimum-wage increases in Seattle, San Francisco and Portland, Oregon, had pushed up its wage costs significantly. But the company also admitted that its troubles included opening two new restaurants where the expected number of customers failed to materialize — an unfortunate management decision.
Looking more broadly, three political scientists found, in a 1998 study published by the Journal of Economic Issues, that on average 48.4 businesses out of 10,000 failed in the year following an increase in the minimum wage. But that was not much different from the 47.6 failure rate in all other years.
Biden was responding to Trump’s claim that an increase in the minimum wage leads to firing employees.
Quote:
he lied some more in the debate, for instance when he dismissed the now well-supported New York Post story about Hunter Biden’s business dealing as “a Russian plant.” There is zero evidence for this. He offered this line:
I agree with you, I don't understand the assertion, unless something new is coming. I don't really trust the DNI assumption, because he hasn't been truthful in the past. But the FBI has said they are still investigating, and haven't made any statement that it was a Russian plan.
Rudy's texts from yesterday are clearly a Russian plant, but that's a different story.
I agree this is sketchy.
Quote:
He lied when he said no one under Obamacare lost private health coverage.
I agree with you - I think Obamacare helped a lot more than it hurt, but some people definitely lost insurance.
I think Trump behaving himself threw Joe off a couple times.
Here's a question for you guys (and gals): With the amount of support for Trump and Bernie combined, it was apparent to me that 2016 was an anti-establishment election. Does Trump get any mileage out of painting Biden as a career politician?
Last edited by DevilDawg2847; 10/23/2010:01 AM. Reason: wurds are not my strength
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
IMO (and I'm biased) it's one of the few things he has to hit at. Plus, it's what got him there, and it's a big part of what keeps his base.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I think he ran on that in 2016 and built upon a legitimate anti-establishment sentiment. I think he still might be able to squeeze some juice out of that lemon when he points out how long Joe Biden has been in office and how he never did any of the things that he says he is now going to do.
On the other hand, however, I think the past four years have made a lot of people go "well, the establishment was bad, but it wasn't THIS bad!"
So, to answer your question, Trump might be able to convince a smaller number that Joe never really did much and won't suddenly do much, but I think most undecided people would look at the president's past four years and say "yeah, you said you would drain the swamp, but you actually just brought in more alligators and mosquitos."
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
The whole idea of "MAGA" is a bit weird when you are the incumbent.
I think it would be reasonable to paint Joe as an insider, that might have stuck with middle class voters -- it is hard to do that, while also trying to paint him as a sexual predator and master of illicit business dealings -- which is what appeals to Trump's base.
Trump was, as usual, making outlandish statements, most of which were complete lies. The man is inept. The fact that anyone can believe this man should be a leader of their nation is beyond me. It just proves to me even more that people are treating political parties like their sports teams now. They will vote and root for their “team” no matter how awful they are.
I'm against the democrats because I'm against everything evil. And I HATE EVIL. Woke up this morning remembering everything evil that will happen if the democrats exist with power in any sort of way. It's an awful list, the unjustices.
Forget everything you or anyone ever enjoyed in life, if the Democrats get their way. I don't know how anyone, can fall for the democrats especially after all these years of evidence.
Obamacare took food off my table! One of the top (some number of) autrocities perpetrated on the American masses by the democratic party because they got away with it. Look what they did to schools!
I think he did get a lot of mileage out of it in 2016. I also think Hillary had been investigated and accused of so much people had little to no trust in her. And let's face it, she's certainly does not come across as likeable. So while he did get some mileage out of the "career politician" angle, I think it had just as much or more to do with the candidate he was running against as anything else.
The problem now is they have four years of evidence with Trump in office. As such, there is less trust in Trump as a candidate. And while it's true there are a lot of pretty uninformed voters, there are many who are informed. I think the average voter overall, because there certainly is no one size fits all, are more concerned with issues that seem to be slapping them in the face.
As such I think they focus on Covid, the economy and healthcare more now because of Covid. That and the fact that Trump is constantly pitting one side of America against the other with his rhetoric. Let's face it, the lengths he has gone to and things he has said about the opposing party and politicians who oppose him tries to portray them as evil, not just having differing views.
Biden did miss the mark when the debate turned to Covid. There's two undeniable facts he could have dropped in that debate to show just how badly we've done and how Trump refused to actually take charge.
We have 4% of the worlds population yet we have 19% of Covid deaths. That is enough to be staggering and sobering to everyone.
The number of nations that ban travel from the U.S. or demand quarantine from any U.S. travelers is staggering. This speaks volumes as to how we compare to the rest of the world.
Playing "pass the buck" to the governors isn't a sign of leadership. People understand that. They also understand Biden isn't looking to shut down the country. He's looking to give businesses and schools the resources and guidelines to open up safely and listen to health experts to lend that guidance.
Anyone who has paid attention understands that Biden hasn't proposed National socialized healthcare and isn't trying to end private insurance. He simply wants everyone to have the opportunity to be covered and be covered.
They also know Trump is trying to end Obamacare which is the only guarantee we have to protect preexisting conditions at this time. Trump has offered no plan to replace it. Even last night his answer was once Obamacare was done away with they would, "come up with a plan". After promising a plan for four years now, I think people find this quite troubling.
As for fracking, of course if green energy increases the use if fossil fuels will be slowly phased out. It's as though some Americans forgot how progress works. I mean those poor horse and buggy makers were put out of business by those mean guys who started replacing them with cars!
Trump focuses on jobs lost in the fossil fuel industry by ignoring the jobs that will be created in green energy.Even BP is in the process of cutting oil production by 40% over time and investing that into green energy. It's a market shift that is happening on a global scale and we can either be one of the world leaders or fall behind. As of now china is the leader while Trump and some in the Republican party make it sound like some evil and fight it tooth and nail.
While it's true that there aren't a lot of public land being used for fracking at the moment, the Trump administration has proposed opening up public lands for fracking. 1.2 million acres in California, oil drilling in Alaska. That's what Biden has been fighting against.
And if anyone was paying attention, Trump himself even said we are self sustaining in terms of energy. So there's no need to open up public lands for these things. We were actually already 90% of the way there in 2016.
Trump did conduct himself better until the rails started falling off right before the hour mark hit. If people listened to the lies about Biden's stand on healthcare, fracking and detention centers, then he scored pretty well.
May as well touch on that while I'm at it.
Yes some of those detention centers existed when Obama was president. Here's the difference. If someone entered this country illegally and were found to have criminal warrants or were abusive and endangered their own children, they were separated. When someone has an outstanding warrant and actually goes to jail, their children do not go with them. In this country, anyone found to be abusing their children are separated from their children.
Trump is the one who came up with the policy of separating all illegals from their children. Huge difference there.
In terms of the economy, we can see Trump saying extreme things of how Biden will ruin the economy. Yet we saw the the Obama administration bring our economy back from the brink of a depression. We saw the stock market steadily rise and 75 straight months of job growth. We saw how the auto industry was saved protecting a huge loss of good paying American jobs from being lost. And despite all of the bluster, we have seen the loss of hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs under Trump.
And oh how we saw Trump act as though money was the answer to everything. When asked about how minorities were impacted far more heavily by chemical plants and oil refineries and how his deregulation of such companies added to those health risks, his response was that they are making 9% more money now. I thought that was very revealing.
And then we saw the 1994 crime bill brought up by Trump. This is the perfect example of something we saw from Biden we have not nor will ever see from Trump. Biden admitted he made a mistake in supporting that bill. He has said this many times. All of us have made mistakes. Those who admit them, learn from them and grow. Those who never admit them will only multiply them and compound those mistakes by standing by them. I don't think most people see others admitting their mistakes and learning from them as a bad thing.
Now don't get me wrong here. Biden certainly wouldn't be my choice of candidates. But right now I think most Americans are looking for some sense of stability. Some sense that we need a president who will try and unify and not divide us. Someone who wishes to protect their healthcare and has an actual plan to do so. Someone who isn't embarrassing our nation when he opens his mouth on a daily basis. At this juncture, I think Biden will win by default.
Not an actual position I feel the voters want to be in but the contrast between the two is certainly clear.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The changed format benefited Trump. Him not being able to interrupt was a massive improvement.
Trump is the person that we know he is. The man only cares about money, preferably his money, and believes that is all anyone cares about. He is probably the least empathic person in this country. It is a me, me, me, world view. And yes, the man will say anything, anything at all if he thinks it will help him. His indifference to minorities is obvious. How he get even one vote from a minority after his answers last night confounds me. Simply stated he is everything I try not to be, or nor would I ever raise a child to be like him.
Biden is the person we know he is. Good bad or indifferent, he is a much more traditional politician. He could have easily brought Trumps kids into play but chose not too. Trump line of attack on his record and money dealings was a bit laughable, but that is all he has.
The debate changed no minds.
I dropped off my ballots yesterday, as there is no reason to have waited.
re: Trump was the one that came up with the policy of separating all illegals from their children.
Maybe I'm splitting hairs here (or I might be mistaken... this is all from memory), but I don't think this statement is totally true. The policies to split up families were always in place. Trump didn't change the decision process behind that. What he did change was implementing a zero tolerance policy on illegally crossing the border and prosecuting all of those that did. By doing that, it ensured that families caught crossing were detained far longer than they were before, thereby necessitating the separation per the established, unchanged policy (which basically said that the facilities that housed detainees awaiting prosecution were not safe for children... which was probably true back when not everyone was being prosecuted).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
