DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 37 Bengals 34 Post Game

It sucks if OBJ is done for any extended period of time.

But I love seeing Higgins in the game. I am still lost as why he didn't get some playing time going back to last year. All he does is make plays.

Going forward, we have to do something with our defense. Isn't there somebody out there we can get to bring in for Sendejo and Taki? Sendejo has just been horrible.

After a bad start, probably the best game Baker has played here-he was money from the first quarter on.

On a side note, I had to go somewhere and wore my Browns jersey the first week against the Ravens and we got trounced. I didn't wear any Browns gear for 4 weeks-went to take the dog to the park before the steelers game and wore a Browns shirt and coat and got crushed.

So far-No Browns gear on game day 5-0
Wearing my gear on game day 0-2

I know what I have to do

100%.

He played great.

A lot of injuries in this game...Good pass protection...but definitely was not the best run blocking day...way too much penetration allowed in the run game...Garrett is a beast...love Richardson's motor but the rest of the DLine needs to step up...Our biggest problem on D is at safety. LB is an issue...but they have been adequate...you can win with their play...love BJ Goodsen's leadership...But our safeties are a big issue. You cannot place it all on Sendejo...I like Harrison's promise...but overall we are picked apart by our safeties...most of the plays attacked them and the LB's. The LB's play ok...but with our safety issues ok isn't going to cut it...I actually like our corners between Ward, Mitchell, and Johnson...any catch against them is usually well earned...Wow...not the best of starts for Baker...but that last drive was special...the play I remember most is that first one...about to get dragged down and he side arms it down the middle....actually every play in that drive was memorable...lol...Praying for OBJ...I don't see the selfish player the media make him out to be...but then...I don't trust the media in anything so...lol...I think O'Dell is an amazing player and can single handedly turn a game....like he did in Dallas...we might be a better team without him...Not because he is a disruptive force on the team...he isn't despite the pundits declarations....but because I think we try to force things his way. Today we let the game come to us...and used TE's and with Landry hurting we found Higgins and DPJ stepping up...we threw to the open man instead of trying to force something...Yes we miss Chubb...But we saw some of what was so special about Hunt in KC...not that we hadn't seen these things...but when people were focusing ON HIM...and he was still slipping tackles and getting large chunks....A better day by the OL and he could have had a stellar day...Man Bryant is going to be a beast...and Njoku holy smokes that was an amazing catch...but he always makes the amazing catches...its the easy ones we need to see him make often...but you have to admit...all has done this year when he is in is exactly what we hoped to see from him...I cant see us keeping hooper Bryant and him...next year...So enjoying it now...

I see a safety in our future come draft time...combine with Delpit..Harrison..Joseph and whomever..whether Redwine or another...and I think we can seriously slow down the numbers thrown against us...

We got Harrison Bryant in the fourth round and he’s our best right end.

'sup, Vers?
long time/no chat.
stay safe, bro.

Clemdawg wouldn't say that at all.
What I would say are these things- in no particular order of importance:

1. I think much of what you say about Baker is dead on-point. BM has deficiencies that are apparent and well-documented, not by just you on this board, but also by voices from around the league who know The Game.

2. That said, I wonder how much of BM's inability to read the field can be attributed to always having OBJ in his peripheral vision. In a recent post, I read this article that gave a great breakdown of how a QB is supposed to see the field (somebody could prob find it in about 15 seconds, it was a very recent add here). Patterns, colors and movement trends was what I got out of it. The retired QB being quoted in that article also warned about QB's seeing individual players/elements- citing 'tunnel vision' as the culprit behind a s#many bad QB plays. Just going from memory, and surmising out-loud here.

3. It seemed to me that the playcalling changed after OBJ left the field. It took some time for stuff to get worked out, but early in the 2nd half, Baker settled into a groove. Seemed to me that the tempo was ticked up, the plays were simplified, and...

4. ...other players stepped up, because they knew they were needed. Perhaps the presence of OBJ has an effect on them, as well? I can't prove this to be true- like I said, I'm simply musing with the pack tonight.

I think it's possible for your assessment of Baker's current skill set to be 100% factual and analytically accurate, while we Browns fans also get to watch a game flow through a conduit where his natural abilities are accentuated. I think both things can be experienced at the same time, even within the same game.

In Clemdawg's world, both truths can be valid simultaneously. That's the beauty of a game so simple and complex.


Good to talk with you again.

_______________________________

As I assess Baker's perfomance, both pre- and post-OBJ, I deign to (mis)quote Sir Charles Dickens, when I say:

"It was the worst of times; it was the best of times."

Something changed after the team was forced to reshuffle. That change was, to my eyes, for the better.


Now, before anyone chooses to get triggered by these remarks and label me an "Odell Hater," let me put that to rest right now. I think the guy's fantastic. I love what he can bring to a team, a game, or an individual set of downs. That said, I believe that an outsized talent like his is best put to use on a team that is 1 player removed from a Super Bowl ring. It's incredibly difficult to integrate an individual talent such as this on a team that is still building essential parts of its foundation.

I believe that John Dorsey pulled the trigger on OBJ because talent like his is a no-brainer, but I also believe that a team, operating under a first-year system (yet again... my perennial pet-peeve), under these extraordinary CoVid circumstances, needs to build a foundation that involves all players on all squads.

I hope/trust/pray that Mr. Beckham's test results bring good news. I'm also cognizant of the philosophy: "next man up." In his absence today, Browns fans were given a glimpse into what this team might create for us down the road should we be forced to compete without such a potentially potent weapon.

If Elves can mount a strong run to contend for post-season, a healthy OBJ would be just the addition to the team I described earlier. If he returns next season, he has the chance to become what I originally described as The Ideal FA Signing.


He got here a season or two too early, IMO.

I’ll have to rewatch the game and see what you are talking about when it comes to the oline. From what I saw was the Bengals selling out to stop the run bringing extra guys on running downs. It’s wholly possible that I am wrong.

I think the problem with the OBJ/Baker problem is that Baker has the ability to be unselfish in the huddle. He's not there looking for Odell to get open. He just tries to get it to the open receiver.

But when you have an athlete like OBJ in the huddle too.. not only is he calling that he's open. The Defense is also running doubleteams and rolled coverage his way.

I like OBJ and I like Baker but I see a Baker who somehow reads better ball when there isn't a superstar on the field too

I could be wrong, because I was distracted at the bar...but after Baker's 0/5 and OBJ injury they had Baker go to shorter throws and ditched the long ball.

We know Baker can make all the throws, so I was thinking he had a problem with the long balls due to his rib injury.

We did go to shorter passes for awhile but he aired it out at the end of the game.

Baker had 4 or 5 deep passes in the 2nd half.

Ok. I guess I missed some of it. Chatting with friends and all.

We did have some deep passes but it looked like we simplified the offense down to one read for Baker. I don't know for a fact but it looked like that to me. Maaybe that is where baker is at right now.

I do the same things, lol. Wear the same shorts, underwear, and socks. The shirt changes depending on if we lose or win.

Is it just me, but I thought the book on Baker was to pressure him. Cincy brought no pressure at all. They only got close on one play.

That was the Steelers book. I think Cinci was reading Mary Poppins.

It’s easier to get pressure when you have the Steelers players.

Years ago, on the Old Board, we had a gameday thread entitled:
"It's My Fault The Browns Lost."

It contained a crapload of posts from posters who stepped up- to take full responsibility for the most recent (and most typically crazy) Browns loss... and to share their superstitions about gameday fortunes.

That thread has to be at least 15-20 years ago.
I'm certain it's lost to the passage of time.

I remember laughing my fool O&B arse off when we made it.

I find that the Browns actually play better when I where their opponents colors.
Did it by accident a couple times over the years and it seems that we we win more of those games that we lose. Figure I confuse the football gods and they think that I am rooting for the other team so they make the other team lose

Do you mean Gruden's not going to figure out that one play, that the Bengals' ran, in the 2nd half, where the Wr suddenly makes an open, uncontested catch, 8-13 yards straight up from about 1 yd wide of the tackle box,

and then the Bengals' repeated, again-x-15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 times,
and the Browns still didn't show they could stop it,
(well they would tackle it, after the 8 yard gain),
still didn't show they could stop it by games end.

Kinda rewatching some highlights this morning:

- Bryant is our best TE. He’s an absolute steal right now. He’s a top 12-15 TE in the NFL.
- Lost in the shuffle was Njoku’s TD catch. Heck of a play by him (and throw)
- Baker, for whatever reason, is better without OBJ. Whether it’s chemistry, his mindset, the play calling, or whatever ... I don’t know. Strange.
- Higgins has the knack with Baker. We’ve seen it for 3 years now since their first TC.
- We really, really miss Chubb. It’s funny how nobody in the media really mentions this fact .. he’s our best offensive player. Hunt has been admirable, but having both of them is dynamic.
- We need Malcolm Smith on the field as much as possible.
- One last thing that was important (and smart/telling) ... the drive BEFORE our last drive. The one where we took the lead (before they took the lead with 1 minute). Stefanski had us at a semi-fast pace. We weren’t trying to take much time off the clock. He was looking ahead knowing one of these things would be true: either they’d score and we’d need time OR they wouldn’t score and we would just have to get one first down. Very smart.

Offensive Players of the Week
Baker Mayfield, quarterback, Cleveland. He came through at a crucial point in his team’s season. Mayfield laid two eggs against division rivals in the first six weeks, and he was poor in the first quarter (0-for-5) at Cincinnati on Sunday. Then he came alive, completing 22 of his last 23 throws for five touchdowns, including the best stretch of his young career on his last five drives: a three-yard TD pass to Harrison Bryant capping a 75-yard drive; a six-yard TD pass to Bryant capping a 75-yard drive; a 16-yard TD pass to David Njoku capping a 79-yard drive; an eight-yard wheel route TD to Kareem Hunt capping a 75-yard drive; and, to win with 11 seconds to go, a 24-yard TD pass to sixth-round rookie Donovan Peoples-Jones capping a 75-yard drive. I’m not saying this game will change Mayfield’s career; one game never does that for a player. But it’s a hell of a start to change the narrative on him.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/10/26/bucs-antonio-brown-nfl-week-7-fmia-peter-king/

That stuff wins games. I noticed it live as well, but forgot about it! Thanks

JC...

I was wondering if anyone noticed late in the game when we put Karl Joseph in at OLB, I only now saw it on highlights (he made the tackle on Giovonni Bernard) It was in the red zone, so I'm wondering if Woods will look into that further, considering the poor play on D.

Gotta give it to Higgins and Bryant and Jones.... Yikes. when needed they came up big.

No slight on Baker and Hunt and Landry. but those guys were not expected to come in and do what they did....but they did

Honorable mention to Njoku..

A healthy D would be big..

Baker Mayfield can be a field General.. He can be the Stud QB we all want. Not sure what happens to him from time to time. But the stuff is there to be great.

Here's the first line from MKC's lead article in today's Plain Dealer sports page:



Maybe I missed it, but that's the first I heard about a cracked rib (except for Landry's). As far as I've heard, all the Browns ever released was that Mayfield had "bruised" ribs, or the even more vague "chest injury". If its true he deserves a lot of credit, as well as a little slack from critics, IMO.

I saw the hand waving but in real timeI couldn't understand what he was going on about.
Kudos to him

Yeah, the guys on the radio confirmed a cracked rib before the game I believe

Higgins and Bryant were just superb. Adding in DPJ (oh yeah, and Hunt) made it a great offensive day.

The defensive grades will be interesting

Oh and one more thing ... Harrison Bryant looks like he’s about 12 years old LOL. I saw his interview and I was like “Wait, WHAT?”

jc

That was an amazing catch. If that kid can keep healthy and keeps learning, he will be an elite talent in my opinion.

Lots of discussion already.

Baker vs OBJ - This discussion is ridiculous. OBJ going down didn't magically make Baker play better. The first INT was an AWFUL throw, but the decision to go to OBJ (who was 1-1) was correct. OBJ went down on the first play, but Baker didn't start playing well until around the half. So... the argument is that OBJ going down made Baker a better QB, but it was a delayed effect for that long? ok....

Ward had a good game. Garrett had an awesome game. Everyone else on D was just kinda along for the ride. Hope there are some uncomfortable conversations about that.

Priefer deserves a big pat on the back. I thought our kick coverage was excellent all day (when it was poor earlier). Interesting that we would periodically kick to them so they could run it out.

Hunt was running hard. Hope he gets some props, as his running was of the 'unsung hero' variety. Not flashy by any means, but he did his job. Only 76 yards, but got there at 4.2 per.... Had a bunch of big runs and was dragging their whole D behind him at times.

DPJ... is he REALLY hesitant on kicks? To my eyes, he looks like the complete opposite of catch-read-go.

Landry is a beast. Same with Bryant. Both had monster games. Glad Hunt got in the endzone.

I was less than impressed with Njoku. That TD saved his day, because I didn't see him do much else, and I thought I saw him involved with some less-than-stellar blocking.

Cinci D came to play. Gotta give props to them.Going into the game, I was getting ready to explain away a big day by Mayfield, but that wasn't the case at all. Their DBs played VERY well pretty much all day.

OBJ hurt his knee when he launched himself into our fullback when trying to tackle the DB. Don't want to sound like I'm kicking him while he's down, but that was dumb.

Good point about DPJ on kick returns. Maybe since he’ll be more relied upon in the passing game he won’t return them anymore. IMO we need more speed back there

DPJ looks like he's running with lead boots on returns.

I saw a great performance from Baker and pretty much all the WR's and TE's yesterday. The chemistry between Baker and Higgins was obvious.

There was evidence of some of the things we have all been looking for. Stepping up in the pocket, looking off his initial target, stringing together a sold game with the exception of that first quarter. Coming through in the clutch and being able to carry the team when the running game won't carry the team. These are all solid signs moving forward.

Circumstances we need to consider here. When your OL is keeping you clean and giving you time, conditions are presented that make it much easier to find a comfort level. If the improvements we saw yesterday by Baker were ever going to materialize, the conditions provided by our OL in this game were the perfect conditions for that to happen.

But confidence breeds success. If Baker can keep that confidence and build on it, this could be the turning point we've all been hoping for. By contrast, it could be that once we face teams with a sold pass rush, making the pocket not nearly as stable as it was yesterday, we may see a return of "Bad Baker".

Only time will answer that question. As I've been conditioned over the decades to be as a Browns fan, I will be hoping for the best but fearing the worst.

Our defense is putrid. We will need to be able to keep putting up a lot of points against good defenses to be able to compete moving forward. I know we've faced some teams, like the Colts, who had a highly rated defense. But that's because they hadn't really played anyone. Only Pitt and the Rats had solid defenses. And we saw how that went.

Here's hoping to see improvement against the toughest teams in our division moving forward. Baker found the zone today. Something we all hope to see continue.