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Not sure if the discussion is about other Head coaches winning ANY more games than Hue ... or Many more games than Hue?
My 2 cents - but I think MANY head coaches would have won MORE than 1 in 32 games. Heck I think MOST head coaches would have found a way to win more than 1 game in 2 years.
I do not think ANY head coaches would have won "a lot" more games over 2 years than Hue did. As in the roster wasn't going to the play offs. 4 wins in any season would have been a MAJOR coaching achievement ...
In the year Hue was let go - we went from very limited success to much success .... INSTANTLY during a period of immense turmoil. I think that is ample proof.
I think regardless of talent on the roster - Hue was one of the very worst head coaches in NFL history. And that comes after me wanting him to get a second year and thinking he was a good choice when he was hired. Hard to believe that after Hue - Freddie was an even worse HC.
Last edited by mgh888; 04/30/20 09:52 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Freddie > Hue > Nobody - plain and simple.
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Dorsey should have known what he was getting into, but none of that matters now. The roster, while good last year, is even better this year IMO. The new crew better have it together, or the fans will run them out of town very quickly.
Being a Browns fan, I love this paragraph. Line by line "Dorsey should have know what he was getting into," Everybody who's been here since 2006 should have known what they were getting into, including the current group. " The roster while good last year is even better this year" Yes, just like every year since 2006, 10 days after the draft. " The new crew better have it together or the fans will run them out of town very quickly" Well Hue Jackson proved the fans don't have a say in it. He can Stick Around for 3 years. All due respect. I LOVE this paragraph.
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Someone corrected me right when Stefanski came on board that, despite being a run-heavy offense, he was able to get plenty of balls to his 2 big receiving threats.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Last year both thielan and Diggs complained about the lack of targets ... Diggs made such a fuss he got traded this off season .... i don’t blame Kev for that but neither of his two and really only receivers were happy last year ... there ire was directed at Cousins ...
Last year his TE’s had 49 and 48 targets respectively ... I believe i read that on here ... Bake is a different about ... i don’t believe our top two te’s will get that many targets because Bake will not rely on his TE as much ... he’ll throw more downfield to his wideouts ,,,
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I think that Zimmer put the Kibosh on the passing game which led to the complaints from Theilen and Diggs. Once they voiced their complaints as a result of the lack of passing in the first few games, they opened up their offense somewhat after that.
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U could be right but Diggs complained almost the entire year and Thielan missed a lot of it after he whined ... and like i said i don’t blame Kev for that ...
Zimmerman fired gm’s buddy i believe for passing to much so Kev definitely had his hands tied as far as that goes ...
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I thought he was more whining about the QB than the playcalling?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I think we'll see a lot of throws to the TE. In 2018, Njoku had 88 targets and 56 catches, Fells had 16 targets and 11 catches, and DeValve and Charles had a combined 12 targets and 8 catches.
Also, Baker used his TE a lot at Oklahoma. (Mark Andrews)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree. I think stats and analytics have shown that Baker’s at his best when TE’s are utilized, or at least on the field.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I thought he was more whining about the QB than the playcalling? I said that in my original post on it ... its right there ... something like “there ire was directed at Cousins” ... I also said twice i don’t blame Kev I think its who Cousins is as a qb ... make it 3 times now .... *L* ..
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We’ll know hopefully this Sept ... *L* ...
I don’t agree but we’ll see ...
Lets say we throw the ball 600 times being generous .... hmmm ... maybe the TE’s will get 100 targets .... *L* ...
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LOL...I do have my Tribal papers.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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This is probably not worthy of a separate thread so I will put it here.
I applaud KS for hiring Callie Brownson. I read how she landed here.
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/05...hing-staff.html
I found it to be a inspirational story.
Hard to break down those types of barriers. Ms. Brownson loves the game of football. She is passionate about the game. All she did was pursue a dream. Seems like everyone should be able to do that. Yet that obviously it is not the case.
I hope she does well. Good luck Callie.
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j/c:
Interesting if you look at the Vikings personnel usage and how it might equate to the Browns' this season. Still, I think many assumed the double TE formation and it does align with Stefanski's comments re: TE usage.
The questions becomes, at least to me, how that equates to pass vs run? Not sure if Stefanski was demanded to call the run more by Zimmer after he fired DeFlippo for passing too much.
Tackles are tackles.
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I have a suspicion that we will see way more passing than people think.
Too many weapons.
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I feel if Stefanski is the coach most hope he is that will be true. A great coach uses his roster to its strengths. Looking at his WR group with the Vikings and their avaivability, it makes sense he would focus more on the running game and TE's.
While it's true we have very talented RB's, it's also true we have very talented WR's and a huge investment there as well. I don't believe the WR unit will be downplayed. Who you have on your roster should create an impact on how the football is distributed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I would be tickled pink if a basic summary of our gameplan was to pound the ball mercilessly while sprinkling in long shots at OBJ. Chubb gets all his touches, and OBJ might not get a few, but those few are going for chunks and TDs.
... and then I wake up.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I have a suspicion that we will see way more passing than people think.
Too many weapons. I agree. It's not like we are going to run the ball 60% of the time. In the end it is probably going to balance out between 55% to 45%. Which side gets the higher percentage, I am not going to guess. It will depend on if we have the lead at half or not. If ahead, we are going to John Riggins truck 'em. If not, we are chucking the ball.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I have a suspicion that we will see way more passing than people think.
Too many weapons. I agree. It's not like we are going to run the ball 60% of the time. In the end it is probably going to balance out between 55% to 45%. Which side gets the higher percentage, I am not going to guess. It will depend on if we have the lead at half or not. If ahead, we are going to John Riggins truck 'em. If not, we are chucking the ball. Throw the ball to get ahead, throw the ball to stay ahead.
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IMO. Each game presents match-ups that the offense will look to exploit.
KS will create game plans based upon personnel match-ups they anticipate on down and distance.
When we line up with 2 TE's, 2 WR's and single back we could still run a four route scheme.
We we use single TE, 2 WR's and two backs it could still be 4 routes.
Our TE's and RB's are all capable receivers.
KS will look each week to figure what and how he plans to attack defenses. Each defense we face will be a different challenge to crack.
Offensively we have great versatility. We can dictate to defenses and force them to honor the run and pass.
It has yet to decided who call the plays. However, game plans will be critical.
What is the monster in the room is execution. It is not the talent. It is team and unit play.
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Legend
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I have a suspicion that we will see way more passing than people think.
Too many weapons. I agree. It's not like we are going to run the ball 60% of the time. In the end it is probably going to balance out between 55% to 45%. Which side gets the higher percentage, I am not going to guess. It will depend on if we have the lead at half or not. If ahead, we are going to John Riggins truck 'em. If not, we are chucking the ball. Throw the ball to get ahead, throw the ball to stay ahead. I don't agree with that. I am not talking being up by 3 points, say 10 points, 2 scores, running makes sense, as long as you can run the ball. Killing clock is a sound strategy.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I have a suspicion that we will see way more passing than people think.
Too many weapons. Your the new HC of the Browns. You walk in on the first day of camp and you see Mayfield, OBJ, Landry, Chubb, Hunt, Garrett, Vernon, Njoku, Hooper and Ward. Please describe your feelings at that moment? On paper, man we got us a team......ON PAPER
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
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I have a suspicion that we will see way more passing than people think.
Too many weapons. I agree. It's not like we are going to run the ball 60% of the time. In the end it is probably going to balance out between 55% to 45%. Which side gets the higher percentage, I am not going to guess. It will depend on if we have the lead at half or not. If ahead, we are going to John Riggins truck 'em. If not, we are chucking the ball. Throw the ball to get ahead, throw the ball to stay ahead. I don't agree with that. I am not talking being up by 3 points, say 10 points, 2 scores, running makes sense, as long as you can run the ball. Killing clock is a sound strategy. So is scoring more points.
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Passing when WAY AHEAD very late in the game worked out real well for the Falcons in the SB a few years back ... even Shanny admitted it was his fault that he stood to aggressive for far to long ...
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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That says a lot for ...... ummmmmm, who, exactly?
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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5 more wins and he wipes out 99% of them lol
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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5 more wins and he wipes out 99% of them lol Did someone say it’s the best start since Blanton Collier? My goodness
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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Guys, we are 5-2!
That sentence feels so foreign coming out of my mouth.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I really love what I am seeing out of this team. He just seems better fit to handle the ridiculous pressure of a 53 man roster, practice squad, coaching staff, etc.. We have a lot to learn about him but taking this team to 5-2 is really impressive. Especially considering what this organization has gone through for 20 years.
I don't have much other than that to say, other than, how DUMB is John Dorsey for not hiring him when he could have last year. I think he let his pride get in the way, and it cost him his job. He could have been with this organization a long time.
Of all the bad moves this team has made through the years, John Dorsey hiring Freddie Kitchens has to be right up at the top. Just dumb.
And more than anything I think it cost Baker a year of his career. 2019 Was a huge waste, and we could have been in year two of the Kevin Stefanski era, and maybe Baker is just that much more comfortable.
Try not to think about that too much as it will just anger you.
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All Pro
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Spergon , playing the “What if...?” game will only give you ulcers. It didn’t happen, no sense in rehashing it.
KS is here, now, and this team is 5-2, here, now.
Just enjoy the feeling, here, and now.
Last edited by Hamfist; 10/26/20 10:51 PM.
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Especially when he has put this all together with a non-existent off-season. Additional challenges at practice and meetings.
I really expected us, and any other team with a new coach or large turnover, to start slow.
It's why I wasn't overly surprised by the Baltimore game. They had a huge advantage over us from the stand point of familiarity of the system.
I expect we continue to see development and consistency as the season goes on and the players react more and think less.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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j/c:
I will say this yet again. I did not want Stefanski as our HC. I preferred McDaniels. The cool thing about sports is it is a venue where you can prove yourself. I don't allow preconceived notions to obscure what my eyes are seeing and I have been very impressed by the job Stefanski and most of the coaching staff is doing. We are much more disciplined this year. Fewer penalties. Fewer public outbursts. Creativity on offense. Good game management for the most part.
I also want to once again give a shout-out to Callahan. The OL has been superb this year. It didn't get talked about much, but they gave Baker all day to throw for a vast majority of the game against the Bengals last week. In fact, they are giving our qb more time to throw than any other qb in the league. Our rushing attack is near the top of the league despite losing Chubb. I credit Berry for improving the talent on the OL, but I think the biggest difference has been Callahan and also due to Stefanski's schemes and play calling.
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He's a leader.. one we've needed for so very long....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
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Not just start slow, but we've seen Browns teams, in the past, look like they just opened the playbook for the first time each Sunday. Tons of procedural penalties (lining up wrong and stuff) to having to take a timeout on first down or right another timeout because the playcall/lineup was all messed up.
I think you could write a novel about how past regimes couldn't even get the playbook fully installed over the course of the season, but this guy did it with the offseason we had.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Yep, with the exception of Mangini who HARPED on the penalties thing, we’ve historically been so undisciplined.
Knock on wood, but as of now it looks like Stefanski’s teams are very detailed oriented and accountable to their jobs.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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