DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 6 Raiders 16 Post Game

I don't blame Baker for any of the losses. We lost as a team today. And we got murdered by Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

Today's loss was the most deflating for me because of how we lost. They were more physical and I don't think they are a very physical team.

I thought Goodson was supposed to be physical and good against the run? He got bullied today. Hell, Sendejo was better than BJ.

we’ve heard for years the same old cliche: We want to be a dominant home field team ... we want to play AFC north football in the inclement weather ... etc

Well, today we got manhandled by a team from LAS VEGAS in a “graupel” storm

LOL...........what was up w/that graupel crap? I never once heard anyone say that in all the decades I lived in Ohio.

jc -

Something I was thinking about today...

It's really disheartening to watch teams like the Ravens add players like Peters and Calais and the DE they just traded for while the Browns stand pat and do nothing. Every new regime that comes in here always thinks they are smart by playing the long game as if if it's some type of scientific way to do it. I feel like I want to yell like Apollo Creed in Rocky III "there is no tomorrow!". You strike when the iron is hot. Too many things change from year to year that negate long term plans.

I hate when people say the Browns are a couple of off seasons away. That's only if everything outside of the Browns stays the same while the Browns get better. It's such flawed logic.

The thing is we only gave up 16 points today. We should have been able to score more than 16 points with or without this weather.

We couldn't get the ball.

And I don't think it's just a weather-thing. It seems so often Browns failure is attitudinal. When they show up to play, they can play with anyone. When they don't they get pushed around. Today they folded in the face of a mediocre team who wanted it more, IMHO.

The weather was The Browns best defensive player.

I don’t get the comments about the OL.

It was the Defense that was beaten to a pulp.

Your right. I just checked they beat us by 15 minutes in TOP. That won't get it done.

we had SIX drives ... I’ve seen teams have that in nearly a quarter lol

jc

I felt like the playcalling was craptastic.

The first half we mostly tried to run.

And they stacked the box.

Should have been more passes called to keep the D honest.

Baker can throw on a rope so why not more 10-15 yard throws?

I know weather was a thing, but we played way too conservative.

we are 5-3 and should be 6-2 if we had a half-way decent lb core.

Perhaps we let the weather dictate our offense too much .. or maybe we have no deep threat without OBJ. I don’t know. It seemed like the old days today when we were playing in a box that didn’t go past 15 yards

The oline did their job. We averaged 4.6 ypc. Baker was kept clean when he was in the pocket. We only had six possessions. The only issue I have is the three penalties by Wills.

Back to the possessions
One ended in a fumble after driving to around the thirty
One ended in a Njoku drop on 3rd and ten. He had enough yards for the 1st down plus room to run well inside Raiders territory.
Two ended in field goals one of which we had a dropped TD on 3rd down.
One drive ended on a missed 32(?) yard field goal.
One drive I believe was a 3 and out.

Defensively we were horrible against the run. We gave up 208 on 45 carries for 4.6 ypc. Our dline was constantly being pushed back. Our linebackers gave up a ton of yac. We didn’t give up many big plays, just a steady amount of 5-9 yards at a time. Very frustrating.

Myles has been great all year but his offsides penalty was a killer. We had them at 2nd and goal from the 8 and he fell for a lame attempt to draw us off with 2 seconds to go in the quarter.

Vernon did show up with two sacks. Ward played well as did our other two corners.

The Myles penalty was frustrating. Carr yelled out something like "we have to hurry." I knew it was a ploy because they were going in the direction where the wind was playing havoc, so no way were they going to snap that ball.

It is possible that our play calling was too conservative. From what I can tell is that we ran a lot of short to intermediate routes. The wind looked very bad and the Raiders didn’t throw long either.

I hated to even mention it because Myles haas played so well and has cut out most of his penalties.

Everyone makes mistakes. Myles gets his share of off-sides penalties. Most premiere pass rushers do.

I'm still deflated. That was a disheartening loss.

It was a confirmation game, the Browns can’t cover up their defensive weaknesses.

They will win some more games, but it will be a struggle against another good team.

I have only one post-game thought on this date:

If I were the opposing OC, I'd game-plan to take a knee on 1st and 2nd down...

...because 3rd & long is the 'kiss of death' for any Browns defense, dating all the way back to 1999. Such is as it ever was, and such is what we saw today.

Teams could find themselves at 3rd & 48... and a running back could convert on a draw play.

This team can be so frustrating. Everyone knew that the weather was going to dictate the game plan(s)- and yet we allowed LVR to run our own game upon us... in our own back yard. Absolutely unacceptable.

A CLE team should NEVER lose a weather-based home game.
If you can't exploit a built-in home-team advantage, you don't deserve a place on the post-season dance card.

This team needs a ton of work.
Post-season is still a mirage, as far as I'm concerned.

It really is, and we've been hearing it since the return. Like there's going to be steady progress over the course of a couple seasons and then we'll be ready to play with the big boys.

1. Drops, drops, drops
2. Without OBJ, I saw no motion, we really will miss him
3. Hate to complain about refs, but if Renfrow’s catch was a TD, so was Landry’s
4. Anyone else notice our playcalling wasnt very smooth today? We were pushing the play clock alot today.
5. Hunt is no Chubb, hope Chubb is back for our next game.

First half of the season is done, we are 5-3. If you would have told me this, I would have taken it, If we can go 5-3 in the 2nd half of the season 10-6.

If you can't run, and you can't pass, and you can't stop the other teams run and pass, often times you lose the game. The end. Penalties, drops, getting run over, etc.

Hunt is hurt. The whole team is banged up.

Some local weather forecaster was on tv, localy here in OHIO abour 3 years ago, first time I ever heard that stupid word!

Probably made up by some liberal, elitest, overeducated, white coat wearing, degree holder, who thinks they know better than everyone else,
because, in all these years,
it's called, sleet, freezing rain, hail, or, a windy exceptionaly cold day for November 1st,

but graupel sounds like the noise someone makes who throws up in their mouth.

Dude had a rushing title on a really good team ... Chubb is a Beast ... he makes his own yards despite a mediocre line, zero passing offense, and poor coaching.

Chubb will magically change our rushing game.

The most boring game I think I've ever watched... Neither team was very good..

DO2, one of the pregame shows showed this stat. During our games with Chubb in the lineup we were averaging about 225 yards per game rushing. Since his injury we are averaging 90. The loss of our right guard is a factor but we really miss Nick.

Full disclosure - I did not the entire 2nd half, so I may have missed some things. My take:

- I expected more points. As both Baker and Carr can zip the ball, with little air under the passes, I did not think the wind would make that much of a difference. Missed that one.

- I am having a hard time figuring this game out. I think our D played terrible - missed tackles and getting man-handled at the LOS especially. But, at the end of the day, we only gave up 16 points. They had what, one punt? And only 16 points? A lot of long drives.

- Of course, 16 points is a lot when you're putting up 6. When they got the TD to go up 7 in the 3rd quarter, I felt like the game was out of reach.

- I have been critical of Baker (when it has been appropriate IMO) but I will say I think his ball placement was pretty good yesterday. This was one of those games where we did not look prepared, where we were out-coached, and at times did not look interested in being there. But I think Bake came to play. He seemed intent on showing that the Cincy game was not a fluke.

- A lot of drops. A lot. I'm not one of those who will call out a drop by one guy and ignore a drop by another (apologies - the election is getting to me). I saw drops by Hunt, Njoku, and a couple by Landry. I know there were others. The one TD Landry dropped (the one that was overturned, not the one where he was sandwiched between 3 guys) is one he normally catches. The overturn was correct.

- Was a little surprised the LV TD was upheld. But it did not move as much as Landry's.

- I do not think the LV TD that was overturned was incorrect. It looked to me when his toes came down they were on the white. The pic that showed the green was before the toes came down.

- Two face mask penalties early negated good plays by the D. Neither intentional, but both face masks. LV got away with one, on Hunt I think.

- I have been really critical of Sandejo. In the spirit of fairness (even in the face of the election) I will point out a couple of open field tackles he made. I still would prefer he not take any snaps, but he made a couple of plays.

- Bryant. I know there are some on here who have deemed him a stud and a future top-5 TE. Not saying he won't get there, but I am not seeing that now. Yes, he has made some plays. But when he makes a mistake, it always seems to be at a critical time. Missed block, a dropped pass. And don't forget we lose against Cincy if Landry does not scream at him to line up properly at the end of the game. Yesterday it was the fumble. A nice drive going. The hit was not even all that violent. To me he seems like a tweener. Too slow to be a WR and not physical enough to be a TE. There may be a reason he was available in the 4th.

- After the Pitt game, I called this game out as a sure loss. Needing a TD with 11 seconds left in the game to beat a 1-win team by 3 did not change that in my eyes.

- I have accepted what we (IMO) are. We can beat bad teams. We are not in the same league as the good teams. We have a chance against the middling teams as long as they are not mean. Physical teams have their way with us. Pitt showed that, and LV followed that script.

- After the Pitt game, I felt that there were 4 sure losses left on the schedule. LV, Tenn, Pitt, and Balt. And two sure wins (NYJ, Jax). The other four games could go either way. We seemed to split with Cincy no matter what (we barely escaped that, so good). Both Philly and NYG took Pitt well into the 4th quarter while our game with Pitt was over before the half. So I see neither as a gimme. Houston - who knows. I see 7-8 wins.

- In light of that, I would be very careful at the trade deadline. I think we need draft capital more than an 8-game rental. Someone we can sign for a few years makes more sense. Of course, for all I know we made some deals last night. I did not check.

- I think with the FO and coaches we are on the right path. We have too many holes in the D to make it to the playoffs. Maybe Chubb and Teller can make the difference.

I agree ... Bryant had a very crucial fumble. That was a game changer IMO. We had momentum and could have struck first in a low scoring affair (we still were up 3-0 ... but it could have been 7 or 10)

In terms of looking ahead:

Houston ... this is a true 50/50 game IMO. Much like Indy. We better get healthy and prepared.
Philadelphia ... another 50/50 game. I know they stink, but they have talent
at Jacksonville ... SHOULD be a win
at Tennessee ... probably a loss
Baltimore ... probably a loss
at NY Giants ... another 50/50 game. Their offense is not THAT bad and it’ll be bad conditions.
at NY Jets ... SHOULD be a win
Pittsburgh ... we MAY be facing their backups


Putting all of it together, let’s assume we win the ones we should and go 2/3 on the toss ups:

That puts us at 9-6 heading into the Steelers game. Something tells me we’ll have to win that game to get in the playoffs.

They only scored 16 points because that's how long it took to march down the field at 4.5/play.

Raiders did exactly what they wanted, and we only presented a speed bump, if that, at times.

I'm really surprised to see that we had a 4.5 average. From watching the game, we didn't seem to get much push, and Hunt was getting hit at or right before the LoS. There were also quite a few successful arm tackles at LoS that Hunt usually bulldozes through.

I thought Hunt ran real hard, but it was just very tough sledding against a mediocre run defense. Our run D was rated much higher coming into the game, and we barely slowed them down.

That was a difficult game to watch for all of us who grew up watching one of the more physical franchises in the NFL. Baltimore definitely took our culture when they took our team.

As far as the game goes, our guys need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, and confront how soft they are on defense. When you're on a defensive line and you still don't make a similar impact as Myles Garrett on one leg, you need to step up your game.

Poor gap discipline and poor integrity at the point of attack on the DL in the middle.

Defense needs to be a huge priority in the draft and FA this offseason.

Speaking of Myles, I hope he's okay.

We need to heal up during this bye week. This game was one where we desperately missed Chubb. Hunt is definitely good and it makes for a great 1-2 punch, but there were plays I saw where Hunt picked a spot and ran it to get a short or decent gain. That is his style and it works sometimes. On those same plays this past game, though, I saw a couple times where gaps opened up more as the play developed that would have been huge gains. That is more Chubb's style and I think it would have had much better returns, especially in this weather.

This would have been the perfect game to run Chubb at them for 3 quarters and then put Hunt in the entire 4th. That's also assuming that our guys would have caught the ball to keep the defense honest, which also didn't happen.

Good point about gap integrity. Our DTs were soft, soft, soft. They either got blown back or lost any integrity in their gaps ... how many times did they shoot up field and have no awareness.

One play that epitomized our defense ... 3rd and 18 and they run a screen ... Clayborne (IIRC ... maybe it was Vernon) just had no awareness and rushed the passer ... then we had NO pursuit and the guy gets the 1st down. Just inexcusable

Yeah, I agree. Recognition is a huge problem with our defense. I feel like often times - and your example of screens is a good one - they get overly aggressive and leave their teammates out to dry by not recognizing the play and doing their job.

j/c

Jatvis dropped (9) points in the end zone today. He's not DPJ, he SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT THOSE THROWS...period. I love the guy...want to keep him...but that's 9 points plus PATs. Those two drops were darn near equal to turnovers in a 30+ mph wind game. He had an earlier drop that looked like the wind pushed the ball away from him.

Njoku with a huge drop...again. Seems like he will catch the TD opportunities and bone up the other big needs/catches.

Hunt with an uncharacteristic drop...Bryant with the fumble.

Game changing/losing mistakes aren't just fumbles and picks - and dropped picks. In a game where you only get the ball (6) times, those drops were the mistakes that cost us a chance to win the game.

The defense was pathetic...but the mistakes above are what cost us the game. We knew the D was going to suck...we knew the weather was going to suck...we did not expect to drop the game on the field and especially in the end zone.

Neither was a drop.

Thinking more, I really don't feel I can speak intelligently without re-watching the game... and I just have zero interest in doing that. That's why we got all the groppel (sp?) talk. Talking heads have to fill the void with something. The field reporter also needed something to laugh about... tough to be down there on the field chilled to the bone for a pretty boring game.

I'm just going to say I hope we get guys healthy and get other guys un-dinged (as much as possible), and the rest take this game as a big kick in the junk and we come out the other side of the bye strong and ready to knock some teams around.

Njoku’s drop was the killer for me personally. It was a NEEDED play. And it was the easiest pass of the day