DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus COVID-19: Fright Night

Good lord. We hit 121k in cases yesterday, adding another 1100 deaths.

And it’s only gonna get worse. And as divided as the country is right now, whatever decisions is made by the government will automatically be the wrong one by half the freaking country.

It’s sad. in New Hampshire cases have been going up expediently daily for 2 weeks. But officials waited until after the election to release the real numbers, and then announced we are in a second wave of covid. Thank you GOP gov. Sununu who allowed unmasked trump rallies in NH and now blames the second wave on cold and weak immune systems during the colder months. Pffft trump and his supporters killing us slowly by not having any common sense.

Thankfully my boy's family all made it through with little issue. A very close neighbor and coworker of my wife's just lost his elderly mom to covid. She was in a local nursing home with moderate senility.

Denver bans all public and private gatherings. People are asking who to contact to tattle on their neighbors. Forget Venezuela, we're on the fast track to becoming North Korea.

stop it.

Counties won by Trump, in Ohio, have the highest percentage of COVID outbreaks.

A denial of science leaves Ohio on the wrong side of history, and puts unneeded pressure on Ohio’s healthcare workers. You should listen to what they say.

It’s more than irresponsible. It’s at the very least unethical, probably closer to immoral.

Can I see that map?

The Cleveland.com article is a subscriber story, but this link has a graph that basically explains the correlation between party affiliation and covid transmission.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article246615318.html

Can't read it. Maybe you could highlight the part that describes this, from you:

And then add in the party of the mayors? But you said counties, so I get that a mayor isn't the end all be all.

To prove your point that "counties won by trump in ohio have the highest percentage of covid outbreaks", you'll have to do better.


After all, covid doesn't affect party. And in Ohio, we're all supposed to do what DeWine says. And further, the virus is doing what we've been told for months it would do - spread in a second wave. Just like it's doing in Europe. And here.

The virus knows no party, Trump lost the election in case you weren't aware, so blaming Trump is foolhardy at best.

But, you posit the virus knows party affiliation.

Ok.

I mean, seriously? COUNTIES won by Trump have the highest percentage of outbreaks of covid? Counties won by Trump in Ohio - total of 88 counties and probably 80 or so of them went for trump...........do the math on that.

1 in 100 people in Denver are contagious for covid. Denver is a liberal stronghold.

Arch, I think he meant to say:

Liberals hide in their houses in fear.
Conservatives go out and live life.

I called this "Third Wave" way back in April, when we were still trying to get a handle on Wave #1. At the time, I said that I didn't know when it would happen, but was sure THAT it would happen.

Back in April, I said:

"This will not progress well for America, because containing/controlling this outbreak requires 3 behavioral traits from each and every one of us:
1. Patience
2. Maturity
3. Personal discipline...

... 3 traits that Americans lack- in abundance."



Thanks, Pal- for being the absolute Poster Child who proved my prediction- SEVEN months ago.


Thinking such as yours will keep us in this perpetual lockdown/release/lockdown cycle indefinitely... because this virus feeds upon Human Life- not political ideology.

________________________


6 weeks.

6 f'ng weeks of self-discipline by all of us, and this thing would have been/could still be under control. This could have been under control in mid- May/ early June.

But no: "Muh Freedumbs" were more important, back in May. That's when I knew my prediction was officially Fate for this country.

It also didn't help that the Leader of the Free World was inciting the most impatient, most immature, least disciplined and stupidest among us to "RESIST!" the actions of individual Governors- people who became tasked with the adult responsibility of saving their constituents' lives, after he'd abdicated all civic responsibility to them and their scattershot, state-by-state policies.

To repeat, for emphasis:
The Fed abdicated all its responsibility to the states, to handle this national pandemic crisis.

Dumbazz Americans are the reason Normal Americans can no longer have nice things. They are the mouth-breathing, out-of-town cousins that get the entire family reunion kicked out of the City Park because we have laws which require using public urinals instead of the closest Maple tree.

I respectfully disagree. Lockdowns don't eliminate the spread for anything other than the length of the lockdown.

I know of many areas where they have shut down, schools for say. Or states. And the numbers go down. The numbers don't disappear though.

And when the lockdowns go away, the virus comes right back.

We can't be in lockdown forever. Plus, there are certain jobs that are not lock downable. (not a word, I know). We can slow the spread, but we cannot STOP the spread. I don't care who's in office (although I have this weird feeling.....)

The NY Times had an interesting article recently about all the positives (testing wise, that is). I'd love to link to it. Perhaps tomorrow.

But, yes, you called it, just like the experts did. There WOULD be a second wave. And not only here, but in Europe as well, as we're seeing.

We're there. Just as we were told we would be. Why is it the u.s. has so many positives? It ain't Trump.

We can't shut down. Simply can't. People like you and I and millions of others would be out of work. You think those that can work from home will support us forever? Or even a year?

And by the way, something like 98% of the people that test positive survive.

Shut the country down and I guarantee there will be more deaths, more homeless, more any bad thing you can imagine,

I've got no problem wearing a mask. We've cancelled 2 extended family Christmas get togethers. We've cancelled many other family/social things. But we still get together with friends, always 6 people or less...........that's what we've been told, right?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but, in the words of our next president "come on man" China doesn't have any new cases? Comeon man. Africa is never mentioned. Canada, Mexico, etc.

You think Americans are different than those countries? If so, I think you're wrong. All due respect, sir.

Confirmation bias is one hell of a drug.

Look at New Zealand, Australia, Vietnam, Thailand, and Singapore.

And?

It's obvious the libs have taken over this board. We'll see how Kamala's presidency works in the coming months/years. There is no place for me anymore. You libs take over.

2011-2015 had great years of actual discussion here. Let’s bring that back. I’m here to discuss and talk. Or you can pout like your team lost in a kickball game.

So I’ll ask again. Look at what those countries did to deal with Covid-19.

Every healthcare worker in tUSA, would prefer us all to be as responsible as we can.

A mask does not infringe on your liberties. We’re trying to save lives.

This whole "we follow the science" schtick has gotten old. It really has. You guys keep claiming 'science' but are the ofrst to ignore simple math, logic, objective facts.. things that at least in part make up the 'science' and are happy to do so in the pursuit of pushing out a political narrative.

Let's break it down... what do we know about Covid?

-From the beginning we knew that the elderly and people with severe comorbidities would be at high risk. That one is probably standard when it comes to any new virus. This falls in the common sense category.

-A little over a month ago the CDC data showed around 6% of COvid related fatalities were a result Covid being the sole factor.

-The vast majority of the people who died with Covid also had more than 1 comorbidity (I believe the average was 2).

So Covid itself isn't so much the killer, but it gets supercharged with the right cocktail.

Now, remind me again what was the American standard of health as compared to other nations prior to Covid?

-Average life expectancy for men and women into their 70's?

-Disproportionate rates of morbid obesity, diabetes, heart disease... (I.e What are 'things that fall in to the category of Comorbidities' for $200 Alex).

So, now comes the basic math:

When a virus that gets supercharged by comorbid factors meets a population that has disproportionately high rates of comorbid factors, you get a country that has a disproportional rate of Covid related deaths.

Basic science, math, and logic. So to personally blame Trump for 200K+ deaths would mean you are personally blaming him for obesity, diabetes, heart diseases, etc. It would also require you to totally ignore the actions of Governors like Whitmer and Cuomo who's mandates put infected people in nursing homes in defiance of common freaking sense which was much closer to having a direct hand in thousands of deaths than anything Trump did or didn't do.

Look, I'm no fan of the My Face, My choice crowd. And while I think the efficacy of the masks is unproven and largely overhyped, I still wear mine out if for no other reason than it allows someone to be employed. But past that? I'm not playing this Butterfly Effect crap that if Devil goes to the grocery store in NC without a mask that its going to cause an entire community in Tiajuana to catch Covid.

You guys keep claiming 'science' and act like you have the moral high ground but you refuse to see the credibility deficit you guys have. The only thing I've seen out of you guys for months now are this constant admonishment and attempts to shame other people in to buying in to a politically convenient narrative.

I mean this criticism of Trump doesn't even make sense. From day 1 you guys have never viewed Trump as anything other than an unintelligent troglodyte who prefers to use Twitter because he doesn't have the intellectual capacity to write anything longer than 160 characters anyhow. Based on how you guys have viewed the man, it seems like the best thing he could have done was to bring Federal resources to bear and provide the materiel for Governors to administer to their States because presumably they are smarter anyway.

But in order to do that it would mean calling out and holding accountable those Governors and we can't do that because well, some of them have a (D) after their name.


One of the things that has become clear to me over the last year is that as a whole the value of human life has become debased. Whether its dying from a virus or a man kneeling on your neck, a person's worth is now defined by how much political capital you can generate off of it. Facts, truth... an honest and accurate portrayal... who needs any of that right?

If you truly care about getting people to 'do the right thing' which I think you do (I'm not so sure about some of the others though...) then might I suggest at least showing a little compassion and concern for those who may not have to deal with the virus but have seriously been impacted in a bad way by the more draconian measures that have been put in place?

Compassion and consideration have to go both ways. No one of us is so important that we should expect it but not give it.

I guess this highlights how fundamentally different we view things.

Cause you’re post really came off as “well, they had it coming”.

You basically pulled the virus version of “what were they wearing.”

All your post did was bring light to the fact that we are so unhealthy as a country that a pandemic like this will have almost double the consequences for our people than anywhere else in the world.

225k+ of your FELLOW Americans dead. Yea, it’s not a surprise that the majority of people care more about that than this pocket books. Especially since we have a government that likes cutting checks for big businesses all the time. We KNOW they can keep all of us afloat until the virus is at least under control.

And I’m sorry if I have a hard time taking you serious when you talk about compassion.

Michelle Obama launched a campaign for better school lunches that will help prevent diabetes in our children, that way we can have the chance of having less kids growing up as adults with preexisting conditions, and yet YOUR ideology trashed her left and right, whining about “choice”.

You conservatives always want people to show compassion for you, but never seem to want to return the favor.

It would be interesting to know how they arrive at that percentage?

Trump won rural counties. A smaller population size per county. One out of ten is ten percent. One out of one hundred is one percent.

I am certain that Cuyahoga county has more confirmed cases than say Seneca county.

132k cases, 1200 deaths yesterday.

Yea, compassion.....

Just to put that in perspective for you, Devil.

That’s a battalion worth of soldiers DEAD. Never coming back. That’s a military division worth of cases.

#truthbomb

I see Oregon is as at it's highest rate.

What happened?

I will only say this:

Clem is right: we had 6-8 weeks to knock this virus down to manageable levels while we were supposed to be quarantined.

We know this thing grows exponentially; countries in Europe are seeing the same growth we are right now, but they actually followed the quarantine, so their exponential growth is way behind ours.

Every case transmitted during the quarantine period has exponentially infected a large number of people since then.

Some people decided their their right to PROTEST when we were supposed to be quarantined was more important than saving lives.

I also saw a big change in public opinion when these protest started happening. At the beginning of the quarantine period, most people were taking this very seriously. People were limiting their social gatherings. Most churches stopped having services.

However, once people started protesting in large groups, I saw a lot of people complaining that we weren't allowed to have gatherings or even church services, and people started taking things a lot less seriously. I'm sure most people observed the same.

Not to mention, all the celebrations I now see about the election, many with no masks on...smh

Just because there is a pandemic, doesn't mean the government should be given unlimited power. Thats's a dangerous road to go down.

What makes you think 6 weeks would have crushed the virus? Europe did that and they are still surging. Italy looks like they are up 30k cases a day after seeing articles about how they were almost back to normal.

It seems the virus spreads easier in the cooler temperatures to the point where simple mask wearing is less effective. The case count in Colorado has tripled compared to the first and second wave. Yet, I see more mask usage now than I did during the first waves. There's definitely some other variables in play here.

Definitely - US has handled this about as bad as any country could have -- but Germany handled this about as well as any (non-isolated) country could have, and is still getting hit fairly hard right now.

The next few months are going to be bad -- but with a vaccine coming, better treatments, and eventually warmer weather, i think we will be able to beat this by early spring.

What? No CEO from a blanket company? Preposterous!!!

I was speaking to the number of covid cases, per capita. Total number of cases can be a misleading statistic.

North and South Dakota are real life examples. Sturgis became a case study.

Texas records over 1 million coronavirus cases

Texas on Friday hit more than 1 million total coronavirus infections since the pandemic began, making it the first state to reach the grim milestone, according to NBC News.

The news comes as the U.S. set a new record for single-day coronavirus infections on Thursday, with the country confirming more than 118,000 new infections for two days in a row.

California is not far behind the Lone Star State with 960,361 cumulative cases.

New cases were up 40 percent in Texas, according to NBC, with the new surge concentrated in Harris, Dallas and El Paso counties in the past week, Reuters noted.

Deaths in Texas have also risen 10 percent over the past two weeks, according to NBC, with total number of deaths in the state standing at 18,977 as of Friday morning.

Health officials have warned that the cold and flu season would lead to six-digit figures of cases, though the numbers spiked sooner than expected, CNN reported.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated its ensemble forecast on Thursday, estimating between 250,000 and 266,000 COVID-19 total U.S. deaths by the end of November.

There are currently more than 9.8 million total confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the U.S., according to data from Johns Hopkins University. More than 237,000 people have died.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/524993-texas-hits-over-one-million-coronavirus-cases

Another 120k + cases.

Fauci was dead on about the coming winter months.

Y’all wanna know what I’m worried about now? Trump being so salty he refuses to do anything from now until Inauguration Day. Not that he wasn’t doing much to begin with, but I have a feeling he’s gonna try and stick it to the American people for voting him out of office.

Because he IS that kind of person.

Did I hear this right, Mark Meadows, WH Chief of Staff, was found to have Covid?

Yep.

Yes and he was masklessly hanging out in the Whitehouse’s East Room on election night with about 100 other maskless trumpians. So I’m sure we’ll be hearing of more of don’s sycophants coming down with COVID in the coming days.

I think people should be skeptical of the science that is filtered through a political lens or through the lens of the media and not just because they are using the science for political reasons, but because they lack the basis for truly understanding the science.

Trusting the science and experts seems to be creating so many misunderstandings and generated so much bad information that it is going to be hard to ever get people to go back to a normal life, even when it is safe to do so.

Now I am not saying that science should not be trusted! But science is meant to be examined and discussed and when people dismiss questions or opinions as conspiratorial or unscientific without sound logic, then they are the ones that are actually showing contempt for science. In other words, if you accept some scientific hypotheses unquestionably under the guise of "listening to the science" then you are actually working counter to the goals of science by creating an environment under which further examination and discovery is discouraged.

Just consider some of the evidence that the politicization of "trust the science" has gone too far.

1. The Bueaurocrat scientists at the CDC really had us very unprepared for a pandemic considering they are the most well funded organization on the planet with a counter-pandemic mission. They had 50 years to prepare for this pandemic and failed miserably. Their simulation and modeling tools performed horrible, they did not have an emergency inventory of PPE or plans for how to address the shortage. Countries like S. Korea made them look really incompetent in my opinion.

2. Health "experts" in most states would come up with laughably simple models for the disease spread that I feel they should have been embarrassed to show publically because to anyone with a background in science or math, their bell curve models showed how little prepared they were to deal with this.

3. Theories on the origin of SARS (pangolins) emerged early and were gobbled up by science journalists, even in respected publications like Nat Geo. Many scientists felt it was obvious from the beginning that these hypotheses had some major holes in them, but those scientists were largely ignored. Now, 10 months later, those theories have been widely debunked, even the authors acknowledge this, but the mainstream media still repeats these long since debunked theories.

4. Journalists argue over concepts such as "herd immunity" and usually demonstrate that they don't really understand what the concept of herd immunity actually is. So there is a lot of argument over this, but people don't understand that it is really not very useful or applicable to determining public policy with respect to COVID.

Science is important, but it needs to be open for debate and opposing views and when people write about scientific information, they need to do a better job of understanding and explaining the findings, implications, limitations, and applicability to guiding our response efforts.

Geez..

I'm sorry about this, but how does it hurt you if you wear a mask and it turns out the whole thing is a hoax?