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This is a fair and informative article written by an NFL insider. Not a lot of fluff or bold proclamations, just solid reporting and reasoning. It was written after the Pittsburgh game and I saved it for the bye week because the author mentioned Baker's play over the rest of the season. We saw one great game by Baker and one not so great game since that time. I think Baker's situation is in flux. He has to play better. That is too much money to throw at a below average qb. Darnold is in danger in my opinion. His injuries are a concern and the Jets will probably have the first overall pick. Barkley? The cost isn't as great, but he has been hurt a lot. Here is the article: Could the Browns and Jets move on from Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold? The fifth-year option deadline loomsOct 23, 2020 Dan Graziano ESPN Staff Writer First of all, the Cleveland Browns are not about to bench Baker Mayfield for Case Keenum. They are not at that point. If you're thinking it's likely because of the prior relationship between Keenum and Browns coach Kevin Stefanski from their time together with the Minnesota Vikings in 2017, I'm here to tell you that you're overthinking it. Based on the conversations I've had this week with people close to that situation, the Browns' coaching staff still believes in Mayfield. They recognize he had a lousy game on Sunday at the Pittsburgh Steelers; but he didn't practice much last week due to a chest injury, he took a hit early in the game that exacerbated it and he was playing against one of the league's best defenses. The team believes he will bounce back. That said, though, the rest of this season is a very important one for Mayfield and his future in Cleveland. Next offseason is decision time for the Browns. This is Mayfield's third year in the NFL. Rookie contracts are four years long, but contracts for first-round picks include a fifth-year team option that has to be exercised or declined between Years 3 and 4. By the first week of May 2021, the Browns have to decide whether they want to pick up Mayfield's option for 2022. Based on the way fifth-year options are calculated under the new collective bargaining agreement (CBA), his 2022 option salary will likely be in the range of $25 million to $26 million. And here's the kicker: The new CBA mandates that beginning with the 2018 draft class -- of which Mayfield was the first pick -- the fifth-year option is fully guaranteed at the time it's exercised. Previously, that option was only guaranteed against injury until the start of the league year to which it applied. For instance, the Chargers exercised the 2021 option on wide receiver Mike Williams, their first-round pick from 2017; but as long as he is healthy, they can still back out of it at any time prior to the start of the 2021 league year in March. Starting with Mayfield's class, that's no longer the case, which means it's going to be tougher for teams to commit than it used to be. Now, if Mayfield turns things around, has a big year, the Browns make the playoffs and everybody's happy, sure. No-brainer. They pick up the option and maybe even start talking about an extension with him. But if he continues to struggle and they aren't sure about him as their franchise quarterback in the long term, can they really commit -- in May 2021 -- to paying him more than $25 million in 2022 cash and cap room? The New York Jets are in the same situation with Sam Darnold, who was the third overall pick in that 2018 draft. There's no way for them to be sure about Darnold at this point, and there might not be any way for them to be sure about him in May. Their current coach (who could be gone by then anyway) and general manager weren't there when the team drafted Darnold, so they have no attachment to him that predates their 2019 arrival. And the Jets are 0-6 and the favorites to end up picking first in a 2021 draft in which Clemson quarterback Trevor Lawrence is viewed as a can't-miss franchise savior. Are the Jets going to want to commit -- in May 2021 -- to paying Darnold more than $25 million in 2022 cash and cap room? Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold were the top quarterbacks taken in the 2018 NFL draft, but both have struggled with consistency. Ron Schwane/AP Photo Recall that five quarterbacks were selected in the first round of the 2018 draft. After Mayfield and Darnold, Josh Allen went No. 7 overall to the Buffalo Bills, Josh Rosen went No. 10 to the Arizona Cardinals and Lamar Jackson went No. 32 to the Baltimore Ravens. Jackson's option decision will be a no-brainer, as he was the league's MVP in his second year, and the improved Allen certainly looks at the moment like a keeper in Buffalo. Rosen no longer carries a fifth-year option, having been traded to the Miami Dolphins and subsequently released. (Rosen is now on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' practice squad.) So of the five first-round quarterbacks in 2018, it seems possible -- even likely -- that three will not have their options picked up. All three were top-10 picks. These are bad misses. The fifth-year option was created in the 2011 CBA, so decisions have been rendered on seven drafts' worth of first-round picks -- 2011 to 2017. In those seven drafts, there were 19 quarterbacks selected in the first round. Of those 19, 11 had their fifth-year options picked up. The other eight? Well, it's a list on which you really don't want to find yourself. In chronological order, the names are: Jake Locker (pick No. 8, 2011 draft, Titans) Christian Ponder (No. 12, 2011, Vikings) Brandon Weeden (No. 22, 2012, Browns) EJ Manuel (No. 16, 2013, Bills) Johnny Manziel (No. 22, 2014, Browns) Teddy Bridgewater (No. 32, 2014, Vikings) Paxton Lynch (No. 26, 2016, Broncos) Mitchell Trubisky (No. 2, 2017, Bears) Bridgewater, of course, had his option declined because he suffered a catastrophic knee injury and spent a couple of years working his way back. He is now the starting quarterback for the Carolina Panthers and having a nice year. But the rest of these guys were either cut or had their options declined because they didn't turn out to be good enough. When teams miss on a first-round quarterback, it's tough to recover from. When they miss on quarterback in the top 10, that's extra disastrous. Arizona seems to have survived it, but only by punting on Rosen and picking another quarterback (Kyler Murray) No. 1 overall the following year. If the Browns and Jets decline the Mayfield and Darnold options in the spring, odds are they'll be starting over with fresh options at the position. Don't Have a Quarterback Island is a perilous place to be stranded. It's worth noting that there are players who have had their fifth-year option declined and played well enough that the team signed them anyway after their fourth year. None of the quarterbacks on this list falls into that category, though. You have to look at guys such as running back Mark Ingram (New Orleans Saints) and cornerback Kyle Fuller (Bears) as players who did well enough in Year 4 to get their teams to reconsider their willingness to commit. Trubisky entered the season with a similar opportunity, but he appears to have lost it. The spotlight shines brightest on the quarterback position, which means the decisions are the highest stakes. The Browns and the Jets will have to see a lot over the rest of the campaign from the guys they drafted two years ago in order to feel good about picking up Mayfield's and Darnold's options. Other notes and things on my mind around the NFL this week: The QBs aren't the only ones with interesting fifth-year option decisions. The pick between Mayfield and Darnold in 2018 was New York Giants running back Saquon Barkley, who is out for the year with a torn ACL suffered in Week 2. By the end of his third year, he will have missed 17 of a possible 48 games for a team that during his time there has a league-worst record of 10-29. The GM who drafted him could be gone by the time the option decision is due. The coach who was there when the Giants drafted Barkley is already gone. Are you picking up a fully guaranteed 2022 option on Barkley in May when he is coming off a torn ACL? One thing that works in Barkley's favor: The fifth-year option price for running backs is significantly lower than it is for quarterbacks. Projecting based on the formula in the new CBA, it looks as if Barkley's fifth-year option will come in somewhere between $8 million and $9 million. That's not a crippling amount if, by May, the Giants feel good about Barkley's recovery. Consider that they've already invested a fully guaranteed, four-year, $31.915 million rookie contract in Barkley, what's another $8 million or $9 million between friends? The Giants' other option would be to sign Barkley to a contract extension in the spring, though it's tough to get a player to sign when he is coming off a year lost to injury. Players generally prefer to sign when they're coming off good years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3017...-deadline-looms
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You're right in that you can't pay that much for a QB that isn't consistently at a high-caliber, "franchise" level.
And I do sometimes have my doubts about Baker. I don't have a strong urge to just bail on him and kick him to the curb like others seem to. I feel like he CAN do it but still need more proof, I guess.
And now I have to ask, if we don't pick up the 5th year option, what would Plan B look like ??
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I think, depending on how these last eight games go, we will definitely pick up the option. I think the only way we DON'T pick it up is if we absolutely 100% determine that he is not only not our future, but also that we can guarantee that we got a better system QB to fill in for less.
Basically, unless the coaches see absolutely zero chance of developing him into what this system needs, we will roll with him simply due to the difficult nature of finding someone better.
There is the middle option, too: we pick up the option, then spend the latter part of Year 4 renegotiating an extension based on how he has been doing up to that point, which would be a much larger book of work. Given that there is almost zero chance of him NOT being the starting QB for 2021, barring a catastrophic injury or Charlie Frye level play, he will get the bulk of 2021 to continue to grow a second season in the same offense.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And now I have to ask, if we don't pick up the 5th year option, what would Plan B look like ?? As referenced in the article, we could keep him next year w/out extending him and see how he plays. That's what the Bears did w/Trubisky. If that proves to be the case, we might try to bring in another qb like Chicago did w/Foles. Of course, the Browns are hoping to see Baker ball out and earn receiving the 5th year option. I said before the season that Baker is playing for his future w/the team. $25 to $26 million is too much for what he has done on the field thus far. Of course, that last sentence is my opinion.
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I’d certainly be okay with taking Chicago’s route with Trubisky. Have him come back next year (after another full offseason with Stefanski) and see how the returns are then
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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My only worry is that we have a shot at a bonafide starter this offseason (it would be via FA... there are some rumors to put this within the realm of possibility). Then what?
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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My only worry is that we have a shot at a bonafide starter this offseason (it would be via FA... there are some rumors to put this within the realm of possibility). Then what? which QBs are FA’s that would be available?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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yeah - that is what i would like to know. who?
Newton Fitzpatrick Trubisky Tyrod
some real goodies out there.
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yeah - that is what i would like to know. who?
Newton Fitzpatrick Trubisky Tyrod
some real goodies out there. Well, we do need a Safety.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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There were rumors about Matt Ryan (though, this would have to be a trade and the deadline has passed) and there's always grumblings about Dak.
Last edited by oobernoober; 11/06/20 03:18 PM. Reason: Clarifying the Ryan part
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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I think, depending on how these last eight games go, we will definitely pick up the option. I think the only way we DON'T pick it up is if we absolutely 100% determine that he is not only not our future, but also that we can guarantee that we got a better system QB to fill in for less.
Basically, unless the coaches see absolutely zero chance of developing him into what this system needs, we will roll with him simply due to the difficult nature of finding someone better.
There is the middle option, too: we pick up the option, then spend the latter part of Year 4 renegotiating an extension based on how he has been doing up to that point, which would be a much larger book of work. Given that there is almost zero chance of him NOT being the starting QB for 2021, barring a catastrophic injury or Charlie Frye level play, he will get the bulk of 2021 to continue to grow a second season in the same offense.
100% agreed
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I don’t think Stefanski and Berry will survive if they dump Baker.
There will literally be no one to replace him with. It would be one of the dumbest things they could do.
If they don't want to extend him or pick up his option, that's fine. But he's the guy. There are no other guys out there. He works hard, has a plus level arm, and has shown flashes that he could be great. You don't walk away from that.
No fanbase in the history of the world loves to churn through players like Browns fans. And Browns front offices too.
If the Browns do end up dumping him they will reap what they sow. It will haunt them for years.
Stay the course. He's close to breaking out.
Stay the course.
My fear is we have a 32 year old inexperienced GM that is going to make a very dumb decision.
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On the other hand, there is a point of view that says shelling out $25 to $26 million a year to a guy who can't get it done consistently despite being surrounded by incredible talent can end one's time in Cleveland.
I get that a lot of Brown's fans have totally bought into Baker, but most impartial people around the country have soured on him after being high on him at the end of his rookie year.
I think both of our points have validity. I think we can agree on the Brown's FO and coaching staff better get this right.
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I can't see the Browns giving him the 5th year option at this point, yet keeping him as the QB for his 4th season and making a decision after next season ... But, that all depends on the final 8 weeks of this season, if he plays great and leads us to the playoffs then my opinion and those of others could/would change ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Yeah, I agree w/you. I don't think he has to even play great. He just needs to play better and be more consistent. That's a lot of money to tie up in a guy who might not be the answer. On the other hand, it's hard to find a qb.
I hope the FO makes the choice that is best for the team instead of being influenced by the local media and fanbase.
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I can't see the Browns giving him the 5th year option at this point, yet keeping him as the QB for his 4th season and making a decision after next season ... But, that all depends on the final 8 weeks of this season, if he plays great and leads us to the playoffs then my opinion and those of others could/would change ... You're usually much more positive than this. Baker is going to be one of those guys who unfortunately needs a little more time than people have patience for. When the light bulb goes on it's staying on and it's going to be great. I'm very worried about Berry making a very dumb decision after his presser this week.
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I can't see the Browns giving him the 5th year option at this point, yet keeping him as the QB for his 4th season and making a decision after next season ... But, that all depends on the final 8 weeks of this season, if he plays great and leads us to the playoffs then my opinion and those of others could/would change ... You're usually much more positive than this. Baker is going to be one of those guys who unfortunately needs a little more time than people have patience for. When the light bulb goes on it's staying on and it's going to be great. I'm very worried about Berry making a very dumb decision after his presser this week. I understand Rishuz where your coming from, I love Baker I want him to be the man here, I'm just saying he can still our QB next year without sinking $25 Mil into him until they feel he is ready, I just don't want them to make a stupid move and cut him saying he isn't the man, we need to give him the next year and a half ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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j/c... I don't have an argument either way, Baker's play has put his @$$ firmly in "wait and see" mode. My question is whether a $25 million commitment is really that much? This won't copy/paste very well, so I'll just add the link... the slated salaries for 2022 are outrageous! https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2022/
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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That is good information. Thanks.
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Money, greed. It ruins most things.
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The way we can't find and can't develop QB's leads me to the decision to keep Baker even if he is just ok. We would have to shell out much more money for a FA if one would even sign here. Not to mention we won't be drafting high enough to get a top prospect out of college. For the foreseeable future, Baker is our man.
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Like I said before, I hope the FO is smart enough to do what is best for the team rather than listening to the fanbase and local media. This team will never be a serious contender if we don't get significantly better play at qb.
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Who's going to come in and play better than Baker?
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j/c... I don't have an argument either way, Baker's play has put his @$$ firmly in "wait and see" mode. My question is whether a $25 million commitment is really that much? This won't copy/paste very well, so I'll just add the link... the slated salaries for 2022 are outrageous! https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2022/ I think this is a great point.
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Baker is the 28th ranked qb by PFF. How hard is that to replace?
Again, the best case scenario is for Baker to start playing at least decent and earn the extension, but it would be dumb to just give him that extension just because some fans like him.
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Specifically, lay out some scenarios of who is going to replace Baker.
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I'll add people act like QBs grow on trees. Have the last 20 years not taught us anything? Who might be available? Newton? Ryan? Anyone want either of those guys over Baker? Will Cousins be available? Should we let Keenum start? I got an idea, let's trade for Haskins. He threw a couple of TDs against us. How about we draft a guy? We going to be drafting high enough to get a moderately intriguing prospect not named Lawrence or Fields? Do any of those options sound better than Baker? Here's a better idea, let's extend the guy who broke the rookie TD record and just had a game where he completed 21 straight passes, threw 5 tds, and led a comeback win. Oh, he's also a hard worker, wants to be in Cleveland, and isn't a finished product. No, let's go with a 33 year old Matt Ryan. He's the future. I think we should move on from Baker. We'll just pick a better QB off the QB tree. Easy peasy.
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Who's going to come in and play better than Baker? Dak "If Healthy" Prescott
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It'd be hard for me to imagine Baker not getting the fifth year option. The salary is not guaranteed unless the player is injured.
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Who's going to come in and play better than Baker? Dak "If Healthy" Prescott Before the injury I thought he was the only realistic upgrade, and I would be ok with that choice.
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Who's going to come in and play better than Baker? Dak "If Healthy" Prescott Before the injury I thought he was the only realistic upgrade, and I would be ok with that choice. Jacoby Brissett? Marcus Mariota? Jameis? Alex Smith? Mr. Biscuit? Jimmy Garoppolo? All of the above names will likely be available next off-season. At this point I wouldn't take any of them over Baker because of his time spent in the offense (and with the coaching staff) and his upside. I would love to have one of the above names as a backup next year instead of Case Keenum.
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I don’t think Stefanski and Berry will survive if they dump Baker.
There will literally be no one to replace him with. It would be one of the dumbest things they could do.
If they don't want to extend him or pick up his option, that's fine. But he's the guy. There are no other guys out there. He works hard, has a plus level arm, and has shown flashes that he could be great. You don't walk away from that.
No fanbase in the history of the world loves to churn through players like Browns fans. And Browns front offices too.
If the Browns do end up dumping him they will reap what they sow. It will haunt them for years.
Stay the course. He's close to breaking out.
Stay the course.
My fear is we have a 32 year old inexperienced GM that is going to make a very dumb decision. I agree except the part about Berry.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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It'd be hard for me to imagine Baker not getting the fifth year option. The salary is not guaranteed unless the player is injured. I thought that changed?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Who's going to come in and play better than Baker? Dak "If Healthy" Prescott Before the injury I thought he was the only realistic upgrade, and I would be ok with that choice. Jacoby Brissett? Marcus Mariota? Jameis? Alex Smith? Mr. Biscuit? Jimmy Garoppolo? All of the above names will likely be available next off-season. At this point I wouldn't take any of them over Baker because of his time spent in the offense (and with the coaching staff) and his upside. I would love to have one of the above names as a backup next year instead of Case Keenum. My point exactly.
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The only QB I would consider to replace Baker is Dak Prescott. First off, I doubt Dallas would let him go and secondly it would take a kings ransom to get him even if he would want to play here. For the immediate future Baker is the guy whether we like it or not. I for one hope he improves and is our QB for many years to come.
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It'd be hard for me to imagine Baker not getting the fifth year option. The salary is not guaranteed unless the player is injured. From the article that started this thread: And here's the kicker: The new CBA mandates that beginning with the 2018 draft class -- of which Mayfield was the first pick -- the fifth-year option is fully guaranteed at the time it's exercised. Previously, that option was only guaranteed against injury until the start of the league year to which it applied. I think the article was fair and informative. I am not interested in arguing w/Rish. I think Baker needs to play better to secure the 5th year option. It's not like we have to get a new qb in 2021. He will still be under contract. I personally do not think giving Baker that extension if he doesn't increase his level of play. I will admit that some folks on here think he has been playing well. Again, Baker can change all of this rhetoric by simply playing better.
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That list of QB cap numbers in 2022 is a bit misleading. Think of all the older QB's who aren't even under contract that far out. Prescott, Roethlisberger, Brees, Brady (and Rivers, for that matter). Don't get me wrong, I expect at least 2 or 3 of those guys to retire. I'm just pointing out that, sadly, 25 million is only likely to be about average (16th or 17th) in QB salaries in the very near future. Heck, after 2023 and the new tv deal, 30 million might start to be thought of as average, yuck) Crazy times. A 248 million dollar anticipated cap in 2023. 16+% for a franchise QB= almost $40 million 12% for quality veteran= almost 30 million I know we aren't talking about Baker's contract in 2023 (5th year is 2022), jusst putting in a little perspective on QB salaries. 
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Speaking of all these old guard QB's. Man, there had better be some good young QB's coming out with a quickness in the next couple years. I don't want to go back to only 20 guys who can reasonably lead their teams to the playoffs. It will kill the competitive draw of the sport.
It's bad enough there are a half dozen teams every year looking to QB help.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,578
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,578 |
Since this would seem to be a case of a decision made by Berry, I'm trying to decide if I think he's made bad decisions or if he has a track record of doing so..
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,433
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,433 |
Since this would seem to be a case of a decision made by Berry Not sure about your wording..a decision already made or a decision he has yet to make? Not being picky. I am just not sure how to read that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Top 3 Picks of 2018 and Their
5th Year Option
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