DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Indians 2020 (continued)

I think that they new team name should be "The Cleveland Baseball team with a Spineless Owner."

I cannot see myself being a Guardians fan, or a Spiders' fan, or really, any of the other names that have been suggested. I am a Cleveland Indians fan.

The wimpifacation of America continues.

Feels like a slap in the face to long time fans. If I stay a fan of the team they will remain the Indians to me.

IU can't wait until we get to the point of vilifying, and all but removing from history, men like Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, James Madison, Patrick Henry, and John Hancock, all founders of this country we love and benefit from ..... yet also all being slaveholders.

Without men such as these ... flawed in character in some regards as they were, there would be no America today. We would just be a British colony, or perhaps a colony of Hitler's 3rd Reich.

Things don’t get removed from history. They are perceived differently the farther we get from the moment.

Please explain why nobody can seem to "put themselves in the shoes", connect two or three brain cells, and understand why perception was different?

Why is "history" always being punished for not having some magical foresight and knowing how I may be feeling now, hundreds of years later?

I am not sure how to answer your questions.

I know that, it's rhetoric and not really meant to be pointed at you.

It just seems that we're always fast to blame history, or historical figures, as if history should have had a magic looking glass... while we take the liberty of covering our eyes and ears and ignoring all retrospect.

I picked up my Crystal Ball at the Dollar Store a few years back .. lol

There's a vast difference in punishing history and setting things right. It's never too late to fix a mistake and never too early either.

So you're more of a fan of a name that the game of baseball itself?

Come on, YTown. You're better than that.
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I dealt with red sambo while that was around and still cheered for the team. I cheered because I enjoy the game of baseball. I cheered because I could somehow rationalize that I was doing my part without wearing merchandise that had red sambo on it.

saying Indian is racist,is like saying Aisan , German, or any other is. Red skin is racist is.

Right. Because Indians are from India.

Paul Dolan to
@twithersAP
: "We’re not going to do something just for the sake of doing it. We’re going to take the time we need to do it right.”

“We don’t want to be the Cleveland Baseball Team or some other interim name"

Could not agree more. So is removing statues punishing history or setting things right? I guess that's the sticking point. It seems like, with a lot of these issues people prefer sweeping things under a rug rather than education, probably just me. I'm speaking in terms beyond the scope of this thread, and I shouldn't be. Don't want to argue, your statement makes perfect sense.

Maybe he's a fan of the decades of association between his love of baseball and our team, name and identity. It's not a "better than that" thing.

This isn't a shock, and I think it will be for the better.

And let's not pretend that the Indians have some rich history of excellence. Yes, right now, they have good people in the scouting and developing departments of the team, but this organization once went 40 years between playoff appearances, and hasn't won a title in a million years. This isn't the Yankees changing their name, it's not.

I applaud whatever they decide to do.

I bet the Dolans are excited, new merchandising opporunities. They can take all the current stuff that doesn't fit the criteria and sell it 20% of to kids in underprivileged countries.

I don't think this is cancel culture, or the wussification of america. I think this is just doing things the right way.

Imagine that tomorrow the people of your state decided to rename it "Trump". Surely you'd stay, because you love the state, and people, more then the name, right?

There actually could be a chance of Alaska eventually being renamed to a name that honors the original Alaska Native name(s) for the state. Similar things happened with the mountain formerly known as McKinley and the city formerly known as Barrow.

Ultimately I’d shrug and go about my business. It isn’t my place to be an authority on what name should be given to any state. These lands were flat out stolen through bloodshed and manifest destiny.

We should look to honor through names, and honoring only truly comes from giving agency to the group the majority wishes to honor. In this case, the Native American groups said they want no iconography or representation and we should honor that. Not our place to tell a minority group what is right or wrong. All we have to do is listen.

As for your Trump thing, I’d shrug my shoulders and go about my business. I’d back efforts to rename the state to what Alaska Native groups prefer as it’s not my place to tell the people who settled this land what the name should be. All I need to do is listen, support minority groups, and not tell a minority group I know how to fix their struggles.

There is an old saying " Youth is wasted on the Young " lol The Cleveland Indians have a long and rich history win or loose..

Trump is an extreme example because he is such a vile person. Would I move? Probably not but it would suck. But rename it Eisenhower and I would be absolutely fine with it. Even rename it Reagan and I wouldn't have an issue either. But I feel the same way about the Indians as well. Change the name to Spiders and I think I just give up baseball but give it a cool name or even a reasonab;e name with a cool logo and I am good with it.

"Spiders" just flat out blows.

"Burning River"

PC Nonsense.

I’m not a huge fan of Spiders ... I really haven’t heard many that I’ve liked much.

It’s not a popular one or a likely one, but I like Blue Sox for two reasons:

- Shorten it to Blues as homage to music
- It’d give the AL the red, white, and blue Sox ... a good shout out to the “American” League

The problem with the cancel culture running amuck today is it is not just the Indians history it's ours ! As old or mature if you prefer ; it's our America and our History they infer as irrelevant ..

Uh “our America....”

Wow.

Here is the letter from Paul Dolan (aka corporate statement) we received as Season Ticket Holders today...

Letter From Paul Dolan

To Our Fans,

This afternoon, we officially announced our organization has decided to begin the process of changing the name Indians and move forward to determine a new name that will better unify our community and build on our legacy for a new generation. As a valued Season Ticket Holder and extended member of our team, we wanted to notify you of this decision and provide information on the process and the vision for our organization.

As a fifth-generation Clevelander, I understand the historic impact and importance of this decision. Like many of you, I grew up with this name and have many great memories of past Indians teams: the World Series appearances, Cy Young winners, the longest win streak in MLB history, and countless other unforgettable moments that brought our team, fans, and community together. These memories will forever stay in our hearts, minds, and record books, and we will continue to recognize our ball club’s remarkable legacy. While I have often associated these unforgettable memories with the name Indians, I sincerely believe Cleveland is the most important part of our team name.

Today’s decision is the result of a process that began in June, following our public commitment to take a leadership role in helping address many of the social challenges affecting our community and to support the underserved and under-represented groups in Greater Cleveland. After we made this commitment, I, and many others across the organization, spent time reflecting on the role our franchise plays in the community at large and our responsibilities as community leaders inside our organization. As a result, in July, the organization announced we would begin a process of listening, learning, and then acting on the best path forward relative to our team name.

Over the course of the past several months, we conducted meaningful conversations with a variety of stakeholders, including Native American groups, fans, civic leaders, leading researchers focused on Native American culture and issues, internal teammates, players, and corporate partners. These conversations were both enlightening and, at times, challenging. We often found that individuals, even those within the same organization or demographic, maintained differing views and opinions of our team name. We valued hearing all perspectives, and we took them into consideration as we moved through the process.

Ultimately, we found our organization is at its best when we can unify our community and bring people together around our shared interest in our home team – and we believe a new name will allow us to do this more fully. We often celebrate being the first team in the American League to have an African American player in Larry Doby and the first African American manager in Frank Robinson. These forward-thinking acts by our predecessors have helped shaped our team and community, and today’s decision helps us continue to live up to these high standards and expectations.

Our decision to change the current name is phase one of a multi-phased process. Future decisions, including the new name and brand development, are complex and will take time. We believe our new name will take us into the future and proudly represent this storied franchise for decades and generations to come. In light of the importance, we will not rush these decisions.

As we take the necessary time to determine a new name and brand, the team will continue using the Indians name and branding. We will also continue to listen, learn, and partner with local civic leaders, including those in the Native American community, to deepen our support of under-represented groups and make a meaningful, positive impact in our community.

My family loves baseball and loves Cleveland. We believe in the ability of our organization to make a positive impact within our city and to unite and inspire those around us to do the same. I look forward to seeing the ways we can continue to accomplish this on and off the field – in the upcoming season and for years to come.

Thank you for your continued support of our team, our players, and our shared Cleveland community.

Paul Dolan
Owner/Chief Executive Officer

+1

The Cleveland baseball team is better known for it's long non-title drought and losing in extra innings of game 7 in the WS, amazingly twice! So yeah, change the name, change the colors...get that stink off the team.

For those that don't want to buy the new merch, don't. Heck, call them the "Tribe" or "Indians" until the day you die. Nobody will care. If you want to root for a baseball team in Cleveland, they're still here. I don't see this as a big deal. Heck, the Browns moved away and came back in three years and 99% of everyone didn't miss a beat. This team isn't leaving, just changing their name.

I've moved on from following baseball. I don't think it was a conscious decision, but after 2016, I stopped following. After they kept losing in the playoffs, I just stopped caring. Mix in the Astros bullcrap and I never came back. Honestly, I didn't know the Indians made the playoffs or what place they were in all throughout the pandemic season. I heard they lost the first game in the series, that was my first update of the season. I've replaced my baseball time with Formula 1. My wife and I are addicts at this point.

I would say though, announcing you've made the decision to then make a future decision on a new name seems odd. What have you been doing all these months? You need another whole year to come up with a name? All you needed was one press release yesterday or a year from now, "From now on, we're known as <insert name here>."

Just get rid of all sports team nicknames so nobody is offended anymore. Teams will have city names only. Wait, that won't work, people get offended by city names too. Numbers. Let's assign each team a number. Numbers don't offend people, do they?

Did I stutter ?

I was going to say they should name em the Blue Sox and be done with it.

but. What the ford motor cars, does "blue sox" have to do with "blues music"!

I hate blues music! and it's from New Orleans, and or Memphis, and or a bunch of places NOT NAMED CLEVELAND

the heck does blues music have to do with a sports team? or Baseball?

Lousy sound! Nice history but lousy sound, and should have nothing to do with what would be a nice new name for your baseball team.

This t-shirt.
Cleveland Blue Sox
Now that's (~#B-^&S*~)

tell ya what, do a blind poll, ask 141 people, "where is the home of blues music?" and if anyone can find 3 people in a blind study that asks 141 people say Cleveland is the home of blues music, then i'll be full of - .
Actually I don't know, maybe cleve... I ain't never heard that!

LOL...right. Maybe ask the fans. Many of our lib friends were very eager to point out popular vote around here....OK....put it to a vote.

See how that works out.

They will always be the Cleveland Indians to me...

Right, and neither should we.

Well the Dolands suck !

I will root for the team. The name won't change that.

I will still wear Indians gear.