DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Defense...Where do we go from here?

I would not have guessed this.

Good perspective. Not having him last week may have changed things for the worse. Hopefully he’s back for sure this weekend

Those are PFF numbers. I’m not sure how accurate they are considering we only play him around 30% of the plays.

So on 70% of our plays he has made no mistakes.

I'm right 100% of the time I am not wrong

"60% of the time it works every time."

Hindsight is 50-50.

Ewww...almost a 20 point swing between his run defense and overall grade? For a 3rd LBer who plays mostly running situations? How bad do they rate his pass defense? Dang.

Not sure about Taki-Taki or Wilson, but as the season has gone on, I've gotten to the point that I'm OK with BJ Goodson in our LB corps. He's always hustling to the ball, and is probably our best coverage backer. He's the type of guy that we've let go in the past...because...he's just a guy. We seem to just tread water with these average players. I think he could end up being a nice, cheap, complementary piece, if we can get a few more quality players playing behind him (healthy LSU players, please?) and in front of him.

I think when we get that interior dude from Cinci back and add 1 more guys along the Dline, as well as patch our secondary (Greedy magically comes back and is gtg, and we find a FS), then our LB corps suddenly becomes very very serviceable.

For as maligned as they were to start the season, they're turning out to be much much further down the list of things that need to be addressed.

We have another year to evaluate Taki-Taki (and Wilson) without a problem. Worst case is one/both become depth. I was speaking of Goodson since he will be a FA. Which got me to thinking who else we should resign on defense...FA's (with names you've heard of) are:

DL - Vernon, Gustin, Ogunjobi

LB - Goodson, Smith, Tae Davis

DB - Mitchell, Johnson, Joseph, Tavierre Thomas, Tedric Thompson, Robert Jackson

Although I would like to see a defense where few of these guys are starting, that's a lot to replace in 1 year (currently 5 starters). I think Ogunjobi and Joseph (can you believe dude is only 27?!) are nearly must keeps, Goodson and Mitchell are those middle class guys I'd rather have over replacement-level players, and probably Gustin, Tae Davis, and Tav Thomas should be kept, too, since they're all young with some upside.

Fortunately, we can probably afford to keep several of these guys, as we don't have a lot of players on O to decide on...Higgins and Hodge, basically. Oh, and Parkey.

Vernon needs to be replaced, but that's going to be tough. Starting level ends don't grow on trees. I have no idea what it's going to take to hang onto Ogunjobi, but as Baker looks better and better, we need to start to worry (happily) about our cap with a fQB, and start planning our signings a few years ahead.

Many of our DBs are guys that will look better once they're bumped back down the depth chart.

I suspect that is the reason we didn't go after big name free agents some were advocating, with an eye on future payroll needs.

OOBER,
Vernon needs replaced, as you said, but probably the best shot is if DE is the clear BPA in round 1 of this draft. Otherwise, we're probably going to get worse there before we get better. But I think we can afford to pay the ones I mentioned...none of them are playing lights out and will command huge contracts.

W8,
I agree with that. Though I have some faith that DePo will keep us on track. We will lose guys...it is inevitable. e.g. As much as we love Chubb and Hunt together, we've got to let Hunt go. And the only time I'd want to take on a big contract is before the trade deadline next season, in the case that we are looking like SB contenders and have a glaring hole (like a Sendejo).

Did Vernon even play yesterday?

His name wasn't called once.

He is USELESS!

[u][/u]

coaching staff would argue with you

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/spor...ans/3859258001/

Defensive end Olivier Vernon is often overlooked while lining up opposite Browns star Myles Garrett.

But in the past two victories, Vernon has been the defense’s ironman.

Vernon played all 72 snaps in Sunday’s 41-35 road victory over the Tennessee Titans and saw action in 96.9% (55) of the snaps the previous week in a home triumph over the Philadelphia Eagles.

“I’m glad you brought him up,” Browns coach Kevin Stefanski said Monday on Zoom. “We only had three defensive ends up yesterday, so we knew and he knew that it was going to be a full day’s effort. I can’t say enough about him from a standpoint of just constantly going.

Vernon, 30, missed Games 2-3 with an abdominal injury, but stands second on the Browns in sacks with five. He was named AFC Defensive Player of the Week against the Eagles with three sacks (tying his career-high), a safety, five tackles and a pass defensed in the absence of Garrett, their sack leader with 10.5.

That's a bit telling.

Vernon should probably be resigned for 2 years and we can develop someone behind him. I"m not sure we will be able to get someone better than him.

He has a 72.1 rating He is 28th with 5 sacks.

7-10 sacks a year from a DE opposite Garrett is good!

I would try to sign him as long as the contract is fair for us. He is injury prone and has missed games every year.

PFF linebacker run defense grade rankings:

1. SEA Bobby Wagner - 88.4

2. #Browns  Sione Takitaki - 87.5

Wait doesnt he suck

J/C

IMO opinion, the secondary needs the biggest overhaul. I'm unsure about Greedy's recovery. I would like to see the team get another well regarded CB in the draft. A free agent option could be Brian Poole of the Jets. I have some hope that a kid like AJ Green who we signed as a UDFA could also contribute next year. The FS position is a big question going forward, although I think Delpit will recover and solve that problem. As an aside, Sendejo has been marginally adequate these past few games. It seems that this late-season period was why we acquired him. Hope that statement doesn't blow up in my face, lol.

A healthy Ronnie Harrison will help us also. That would stabilize the SS position and give us options come draft time.

I know the presumption is that the analytic faction won out when Stefanski was hired. Many of you say that accounts for the diminished value placed on the LBs. There is a first-round LB candidate who I believe would tie the front and the secondary together so that Woods could get this entire defense elevated to a top ten unit. Zaven Collins I think he goes 6'3, 260 Lbs.

If we can't resign Ogunjobi, I think a player like Dalvin Tomlinson currently of the NYG and formerly of Alabama would look good next to Richardson.

Above all else, we have smart people running the franchise and its showing up on the field.

I think we will need 2 LB's and 1 DT next year. Possibly, a DE if Vernon walks and 1 DB. to replace Mitchell and have someone better for the slot.

If Vernon gets 1 more sack each game... thats an 8 sack season opposite the Garrett. He is at a respectable 5 now. 7 would be better.


How much wi it cost to resign him? Should we resign him before the season ends?

Re-sign = good
Resign = bad

Vernon shouldn't cost too much because of his age and production. We need him back at this point.

I supported Vernon and the return from him was minimal. I turned on him and started bagging on him, and he's been playing pretty well ever since.

I know what I need to do...

" I know the presumption is that the analytic faction won out when Stefanski was hired. Many of you say that accounts for the diminished value placed on the LB "

My question is , how well has that plan worked out ? In fact just how well has the Joe woods ( Wilks part two ) Defense been working ? I would average against low level teams and meh against play off caliber ones ..

To make matters worse you have one , I say one quality starting CB in Wars who will never give you a full season.

The offense got addressed last offseason, the defensive roster will get caught up in the next offseason. We also had key losses on that side of the ball in the preseason. Between Greedy and Ward, yes... we need 1 more starting caliber CB. We need to make sure we have at least 1 corner that can at least make an attempt at challenging the other team's main receiver. Last night, we didn't have anyone that could do that. While the discipline in executing the defense left a lot to be desired last night (which is on the players AND coaches), you gotta give Woods the benefit of the doubt when the best FS he has is Sendejo.

Random thought: seeing Sendejo running around out there in Randall's old number makes me mad.

" give Woods the benefit of the doubt " .. Can't ! .. To many players completely out of position to be involved in plays. huge areas open from start to finish on plays. agree on lack of talent . That part is on the FO.

Taking THROWLONG's approach to fandom, I see.

If it works...

We didn't lose because we couldn't cover their WRs. Their top WR had 2 catches for 50 yards and 44 of those yards and a TD came on a busted play where Jackson eluded the blitz and the WR improvised and we would have had to maintain coverage for about 8 seconds with no safety help because we blitzed.. that's a big ask for ANY CB. In fact their only 2 or 3 big receptions were all busted plays.

That's my problem with Woods .. Play for Lamar's wheels , not his arm .. Talented Linebackers with speed would help !

This defense needs DBs like Ward, Greedy, and Delpit and a DT like Andrew Billings.

It still needs more DBs on top of those, and it still needs more on the DLine and a 4-down stud in the LB corps... but, next season will be like getting a couple of season's worth of upgrades all at once.

Agreed. I think people forget we are literally missing our entire starting defensive backfield. I get the "next man up" mentality and all, but it only goes so far when 4/11 starters are supposed to be backups.

We aren't that far off. We can win and beat ANY team in the league right now. I can't wait for the playoffs.

that was my thought.. if we can get players healthy going into next year, maybe a sign a good FA or two, and add a couple high draft pick players to the defense, it could look significantly different.

Absolutely PRPL.

We are going to see a much tougher schedule next year, but I do think we can expect a similar W-L record for a few reasons, one of which is that we will get a lot of D help...like 4-5 starters worth. And depending how well Baker is able to assimilate Odell back into the offense, he may be a trade chip to get another plus-level D starter.

Agreed. Also, if we had Ward, Billings, Greedy and Delpit playing I'm sure our D would be much better now. You add those guys plus the draft and FA period and we could have a top 10-15 D next year.