DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Defense...Where do we go from here?

What NFC division are we playing next year?

I'll answer my own ? I believe it's the NFC north and the AFC west. A little tougher schedule.

That is correct.

Division Games
NFC North
AFC West

And if the season ended today, we would also play the Colts and the Dolphins

I think we also are in dire need of a legit on the field leader. We have guys on our roster than can 'make plays' like Myles and Ward, but who's the guy that sets the tone for the defense? The guy who keeps everyone focused and locked on?

I saw enough flashes of success to believe that we had a solid plan that could have slowed Lamar down if not stop him. Yes our Def was outmatched but in that situation its more important than ever to remain disciplined. They are capable of it. Remaining disciplined is how they shut down Henry last week.

Right now I don't know who that guy is.

I completely forgot we have that guy.

I'm continuously forgetting we have him, which is part of why I made that post; I wanted to remind myself that it isn't all that bad. We are missing a lot of significant parts that should have made this defense a LOT better than it is this year. He's only on a one year deal that rolls over to next year since he opted out of this one, but still, that should be a pretty good year of work. He'll be a big boost to our run defense, if I'm recalling him correctly.

ouch... that's a rough next year.

That's good to know!

Look on the up side... just think of how well we'll do on those strength of schedule tiebreakers next year.

our luck... our division is going to end up in a 4 way tie going 8-8

LOL

One thing that can't be understated because we will be worlds apart (from previous years) in this respect...

From top to bottom - organization, coaches, players, trajectory, etc... there is no reason for a free agent to believe that this isn't a good landing spot. And for the first time in over thirty years - a place to have a solid chance at a championship.

We need to be 5-1 (4-2 at the worst) in our division next year instead of either 2-4 or 3-3...

Ravens will be good (split), Steelers always seem to find a way but Ben really seems to be slowing down and that's a tough guy to replace (split or sweep), Bengals were looking better before Burrow went down so who knows if he'll be back to full strength or back at all when we play them (sweep)

I'll let other team's fans worry about their teams. I'm more concerned with fixing this defense.

Besides, the Packers, Vikings, Steelers, Chiefs and Raiders (and maybe even Bears) have some salary cap work to do.

Maybe not Saints-level work, but next year's schedule is for next year.

anyone see the PFF grades for the defense last night.. just about all but 3 fell into the replaceable category...and be replaced they shall

It is pretty clear that additional players on the defense are needed. Depth and starters.

I would anticipate action in free agency and the first 3 rounds of the draft (4 players) to try to push the team to the top tier.

LB, LB, CB, S

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Can't happen too soon. Our zone is like Keystone cops. Can't miss and whiff fast enough.

I'd be laughing if it was funny. The late TD left a stench.

And at this point it is far too early to point at the defensive coordinator or the front office.

Not counting our players who are UFA next year this is what our defensive depth chart will look like going into the off-season:

LDE Myles Garrett - Joe Jackson
LDT Sheldon Richardson - Jordan Elliott
RDT Andrew Billings
RDE Adrian Clayborn - Porter Gustin - Curtis Weaver

SAM Sione Takitaki - Jacob Phillips - George Obinna
MLB OPEN
WLB Mack Wilson

LCB Denzel Ward - MJ Stewart
SS Ronnie Harrison
FS Sheldrick Redwine - Grant Delpit - Jovante Moffatt
RCB Tavierre Thomas - Robert Jackson - Greedy Williams

All these players are unsigned for next year:

DE Olivier Vernon
DT Larry Ogunjobi
DT Vincent Taylor
LB BJ Goodson
LB Malcolm Smith
LB Tae Davis
LB Elijah Lee
S Andrew Sendejo
S Karl Joseph
S Tedric Thompson
CB Terrance Mitchell
CB Kevin Johnson

Oh I am not pinning the whole problem on Woods .. It has been a combined effort.. lol

I’d like to re-sign Vernon ... and Malcolm Smith and Mitchell as some depth .. that’s about it

Vernon depends heavily on what he wants. I hope he doesn't still think he's a top-tier guy.

This demonstrates that most of the problem is scheme. Sorry. The defense brings 6 guys and they all end up on the far side of the field leaving the Lamar the choice to freely roam the near side. If he doesn't throw that ball, he still runs for at least 20, or most likely the TD.

Now, this happened repeatedly in the game. What chance do you have if you don't make some attempt to contain Jackson by sealing both edges? If they just leave Joseph in coverage and let Vernon do his job, then this play does not happen.

The defense played well in the first half against Tennessee because they stopped this nonsense. They put 5 men on the line and stopped the run. Everyone maintained there gaps and it worked. I would argue for playing Baltimore pretty much the same way.

We cannot fairly judge the talent on this team because the coaching is not putting them in a position to be successful.

I don't know if the problem is Woods or the defensive staff as a whole, but I think that we see some changes there in the offseason.

j/c

Watch that video clip again and look at the receiver at the top of the screen...dude is wide open over there...now...Lamer couldn't see that or make that throw if his life depended on it...but...nonetheless...there were (3) nice options there based on where our defenders ended up.

Simply put I disagree that Woods is the problem. Our secondary has gigantic holes. This is a problem that is exacerbated by Wards' absence this week. The run D has actually improved over the past 4-5 games. The linebacking corp needs an infusion of talent and the pass rush needs more depth. In spite of all of that, we're not getting gashed with explosive running plays. I don't think we currently have all the various skill sets needed for Woods to employ his full scheme. I like how hard the D is playing though. I see a unit that can be tweaked. It does not need an overhaul or a new DC, IMO.

We need to find our killer MLB, a Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher or James Harrison. Yeah I know, it's easy picking a HOF LB (end sarcasm) but we gotta luck out and solidify that position

I cannot remember the Browns drafting a true LB since the return in the first round.

Wasn't David Viekune a first rounder?

Round 2. One of 3 great picks in the 2nd round in that draft </sarc>

Unless you want to count Barkevious Mingo, the highest drafted off-ball LBer we've taken is D'Qwell.

45) Rahim Abdullah (1999)
52) Chaun Thompson (2003)
34) D"Qwell Jackson (2006)
52) David Veikune (2009)
6) Barkevius Mingo (2013)

Beau Bell was a gem of a pick

I agree...at least I think so...and for the most part. Woods takes a beating from a lot of sources that don't then also recognize the chicken-salad-from-chicken-poo dilemma he's operating in.

I can see/read that we've lost a ton of guys off-and-on who we were counting on and throughout the year (Ward, Garrett, Harrison, Phillips), lost guys from the get-go for the whole year (Billings, Delpit, G Williams) and guys who took some time to get healthy in order to really contribute (Clayborn and Vernon).

I have also read or seen where our schemes and/or calls have been suspect. Like anything that puts Vernon - healthy or not - on an eligible receiver.

And I have read or seen where guys simply appear to have completely ignored their assignment/fit resulting in big/chunk plays by the offense...then we had the keystone cops routine on the Rats last TD drive/4th down.

I WANT to believe that our issues on D are akin to our (hopefully now former) issues at QB/offensive-productivity. Too many new systems...too many new players...about the only thing/mistake we seem to have avoided recently is the allure of switching to a 3-4 and back and forward. Not a great thing to hold your hat on. It feels to me that when we fail on defense it's because our player(s) simply didn't make the play or got themselves out-of-position to be effective on that fail. Disclaimer: I'm not standing on a box here shouting out a proclamation for all to adhere-to...there are many things about scheme that I simply don't see until it's pointed-out on a replay of some sort.

In the end, I think we simply don't know enough about Woods' coordinating in this virus world with injuries and opt-outs to have any inkling that he should be fired and we start all over...again. I'd like to read a good breakdown of his coaching and scheming but I don't recollect there being any. See how far down this list you get before either shaking your head or chuckling in disbelief:

Billings was going to be the run-stopper that LO cannot be;

Delpit was going to be the starter and Sendejo was...not;

Phillips was going to be a key player with Goodson to help him along;

Greedy was to be our #2 and KJ our slot with Money Mitch as the 4th CB and #1 backup;

Harrison was brought in because without Delpit, we needed too much Joseph.

What did/do we think that any D coordinator could do under these circumstances?

Authored by Woods' Dad (kidding)

I think this D was going to be rough around the edges, even before the injuries/opt-outs. Our LB corps is what it is/was, and Ward's injury history was well-documented, so we already knew we were going to see Mitchell/Tavierre at some point during the season. Sendejo was behind Delpit, but Delpit is a rookie (and rookie DBs can be tough to watch).

Asking a coordinator to cover for all of this is asking a lot. He's mostly in a no-win, pick your poison, type of situation. Hard to come out of that looking competent, much less good.

.. I don't think we currently have all the various skill sets needed for Woods to employ his full scheme... "

One of my points well stated .. If you don't have the personal to play a certain scheme , don';t play it . Round peg meet square hole .. Wilks pretty much did the same thing last season. Now as I have mentioned before , this is not on Woods alone.. The FO didn't do him any favors in the off season when bringing in FA's or the draft..

This will be a Good and LONG off season discussion on our board .. You can be sure I will state my case in full. lol

What is the correct scheme choice when you have very poor LB play, and poor/no secondary?

This is the question everyone needs to be asking themselves before pointing the finger at Joe Woods.

Every game and Opposing team is different . In Rat Birds game I would have tried ( no guarantee ) a pinche'er type scheme . Garrett and Vernon play the most important roles.( maintain out side responsibility ) Fastest LB/DB 3 man combo at LB. about three to to four yards of the line . Press coverage on Receivers. That would be my base. Yep , no safety to speak of .. Make Lamar beat me with his arm. I feel that ANY QB is less accurate falling backwards or from his butt .. That doesn't mean you are not going to switch it up from play to play .. Going with a normal 4/3 or 4/2 .. The idea is to make them have to adjust .. He either throws the ball fast or has to move. The idea of dropping Vernon into coverage is nuts in my book.

My whole D concept is to do WHAT EVER I have to do to make the QB VERY , VERY uncomfortable .. Do not think Jackson can handle it .. He will make mistakes ..